The LDS members and the Kingdom of God

[_Franktalk]

Neither of you are willing to discuss how you tell which is which when it comes to the spiritual. I suspect drifting was a believing member of the church for a long time. I was and certainly lived an LDS life.

You will not like what I have to say. You see God sees everything from the beginning. So He sees if someone is going to remain faithful or not. If someone does not and they have received a powerful witness from the Holy Ghost then they have denied what they know is true. This is the sin against the Holy Ghost which is a bad one. This sin is reserved for the worst of souls. So your weakness in spirit is known by God and He will not witness to someone who will deny the Holy Ghost. You may receive other types of promptings but not the Holy Ghost. This happens for two reasons. One is you may never have cast off the world enough to receive the Holy Ghost. And the other reason is because God is merciful and will protect you from yourself. If you study how scripture deals with the elect you will find some confusing statements. But if you sort it out by realizing that God will not test you beyond what you can handle then it all comes together. So the argument you seek with me means nothing. There is no logic and no pile of stuff that will change your mind. You have embraced what you wish to embrace.

[_Drifting]

Neither of you are willing to discuss how you tell which is which when it comes to the spiritual. I suspect drifting was a believing member of the church for a long time. I was and certainly lived an LDS life.

You will not like what I have to say. You see God sees everything from the beginning. So He sees if someone is going to remain faithful or not. If someone does not and they have received a powerful witness from the Holy Ghost then they have denied what they know is true. This is the sin against the Holy Ghost which is a bad one. This sin is reserved for the worst of souls. So your weakness in spirit is known by God and He will not witness to someone who will deny the Holy Ghost. You may receive other types of promptings but not the Holy Ghost. This happens for two reasons. One is you may never have cast off the world enough to receive the Holy Ghost. And the other reason is because God is merciful and will protect you from yourself. If you study how scripture deals with the elect you will find some confusing statements. But if you sort it out by realizing that God will not test you beyond what you can handle then it all comes together. So the argument you seek with me means nothing. There is no logic and no pile of stuff that will change your mind. You have embraced what you wish to embrace.

Do you think God is slightly disappointed that Satans game plan is working out significantly more successful than His own?

[_Themis]

Neither of you are willing to discuss how you tell which is which when it comes to the spiritual. I suspect drifting was a believing member of the church for a long time. I was and certainly lived an LDS life.

You will not like what I have to say. You see God sees everything from the beginning. So He sees if someone is going to remain faithful or not. If someone does not and they have received a powerful witness from the Holy Ghost then they have denied what they know is true. This is the sin against the Holy Ghost which is a bad one. This sin is reserved for the worst of souls. So your weakness in spirit is known by God and He will not witness to someone who will deny the Holy Ghost. You may receive other types of promptings but not the Holy Ghost. This happens for two reasons. One is you may never have cast off the world enough to receive the Holy Ghost. And the other reason is because God is merciful and will protect you from yourself. If you study how scripture deals with the elect you will find some confusing statements. But if you sort it out by realizing that God will not test you beyond what you can handle then it all comes together. So the argument you seek with me means nothing. There is no logic and no pile of stuff that will change your mind. You have embraced what you wish to embrace.

Your post is all assertions without substance and it also demonstrates you don't understand LDS doctrine. I can understand since you are a convert. Denying the HG is not something even you would be capable of. Now it's a weak argument that I have not had a powerful witness from God since God has seen I would not remain faithful, but then why should I remain faithful if I have not had a powerful witness, especially since I see much evidence against LDS truth claims. Also you and others continue to ignore what the body may be easily capable of, and I would argue it is. We can see this through the use of drugs, stress, lack of food(fasting), lack of sleep, etc.

by the way you also seem bent on ignoring the evidence I brought up.

[_Franktalk]

Do you think God is slightly disappointed that Satans game plan is working out significantly more successful than His own?

Satan does not win souls. People choose good or evil. But one can pick to follow Satan if they desire. Apparently God does not like to be around evil. I feel the same way. I think it is great that the people who do good works get to live without evil.

[_Franktalk]

Your post is all assertions without substance and it also demonstrates you don't understand LDS doctrine. I can understand since you are a convert. Denying the HG is not something even you would be capable of. Now it's a weak argument that I have not had a powerful witness from God since God has seen I would not remain faithful, but then why should I remain faithful if I have not had a powerful witness, especially since I see much evidence against LDS truth claims. Also you and others continue to ignore what the body may be easily capable of, and I would argue it is. We can see this through the use of drugs, stress, lack of food(fasting), lack of sleep, etc.

by the way you also seem bent on ignoring the evidence I brought up.

I am not so sure you know what you are talking about. I also think you have accepted the non-LDS view of what it is like to be LDS. Maybe that was your problem all along. Too much world and not enough spirit. Who knows maybe one day you will wake up and smell the roses.

You must realize that LDS doctrine is not all of the doctrine out there. And you must realize that the LDS leadership are very careful not to overreach in interpretation. There are way too many people hanging on to every word uttered to tear down the church. And the members keep careful watch on the leaders as well. But I am free to speculate as much as I want.

[_Themis]

I am not so sure you know what you are talking about. I also think you have accepted the non-LDS view of what it is like to be LDS. Maybe that was your problem all along. Too much world and not enough spirit. Who knows maybe one day you will wake up and smell the roses.

You must realize that LDS doctrine is not all of the doctrine out there. And you must realize that the LDS leadership are very careful not to overreach in interpretation. There are way too many people hanging on to every word uttered to tear down the church. And the members keep careful watch on the leaders as well. But I am free to speculate as much as I want.

I don't need to accept a non-lds view since I can go by my LDS view. I can understand converts sometimes bring there own ideas into he church, but that does not make then LDS doctrine.

Now you are still ignoring my examples about science and dating methods and as well about the bodies ability to create the spiritual experience. Why should some members of the church remain faithful if God won't give them the HG as you claim. It really looks like an excuse for why many stop believing that they must never have had experiences like mine, but then everyone interprets these things differently, and even can reevaluate past experiences.

[_Franktalk]

Now you are still ignoring my examples about science and dating methods and as well about the bodies ability to create the spiritual experience. Why should some members of the church remain faithful if God won't give them the HG as you claim. It really looks like an excuse for why many stop believing that they must never have had experiences like mine, but then everyone interprets these things differently, and even can reevaluate past experiences.

How does that make you feel when I ignore your evidence? You sit and tell me I know nothing of God and then you throw the world at me and expect me to bow to that knowledge. You obviously know very little about God or me.

[_Themis]

How does that make you feel when I ignore your evidence?

I feel fine. I have no expectations that you will deal with the evidence.

You sit and tell me I know nothing of God

I wish people would have better reading comprehension. I never said anything of the sort. I did say you do not understand LDS doctrine that well, or at least on some subjects.

and then you throw the world at me and expect me to bow to that knowledge.

I never expected or asked you to bow to anything. As to what you want to believe is worldly knowledge, your religious beliefs are just as worldly. The real difference is yours are not reliable.

You obviously know very little about God or me.

I am sure I know little of you other then what you have posted. It's interesting that you complain about me saying you know nothing of God, which I never did, yet you feel comfortable making the same accusation you don't like others doing to you.

[_Franktalk]

I wish people would have better reading comprehension. I never said anything of the sort. I did say you do not understand LDS doctrine that well, or at least on some subjects.

Here are some things to chew on.

Joh 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

Joh 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

You ask me to discuss evidence of man so I can learn from you how to properly view scripture and place it second to man's truth. I say I reject man's truth and will only rely on spiritual discernment to examine the things of God. I wonder which one of us is following the commandments of Christ?

I play with science but I am serious about scripture. Can you say the same thing? Which one is your truth? Which one do you modify to fit the other?

[_Themis]

Here are some things to chew on.

Joh 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

Joh 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

I have read these many times, but I am not sure why I should put to much stock in the words of men dead thousands of years ago who had very limited knowledge of the universe around them both physical and spiritual.

You ask me to discuss evidence of man so I can learn from you how to properly view scripture and place it second to man's truth.

It's all mans claims. It's just the ones in the Bible don't do well when compared to what we know these days.

I say I reject man's truth and will only rely on spiritual discernment to examine the things of God. I wonder which one of us is following the commandments of Christ?

Others think they are getting the right discernment, but don't agree with yours. You don't even want to think about what the body is capable of.

I play with science but I am serious about scripture. Can you say the same thing? Which one is your truth? Which one do you modify to fit the other?

Science is a methodology. A way of evaluating the world around us. That it has a better track record is not my fault. Scripture is just the words of men long dead. Many if not most of the claims we can check don't hold up. The Book of Abraham and Book of Mormon fail in so many ways that show Joseph was making it up. Spiritual experiences are great, but have a terrible track record when people try to interpret them in ways to make objective truth claims. It's not hard to see this by looking around at all the people who have very different conclusions about them. Birds of a feather flock together.