Drifting wrote:Was Whitmer lying when he stated Joseph translated the Book of Mormon using a rock placed in a hat? If not why doesn't the Church teach its members that this was how it was done rather than exclusively propagating the Urim & Thummim version?
Have you seen the Urim & Thummim? I know I haven't. How about any other posters here on this site? Do any of you know what the Urim and Thummim look like? I can't even recall ever seeing any drawings of them.
gdemetz wrote: Themis, I have tried to examine all of the available evidence.
I take that as an admission you were justs saying it to say it. Also I have seen more then enough posts of yours to understand you know little of the available evidence and are not willing to go past things like fair or farms. http://www.psychologyandsociety.com/confirmationbias.html
Drifting wrote:Was Whitmer lying when he stated Joseph translated the Book of Mormon using a rock placed in a hat? If not why doesn't the Church teach its members that this was how it was done rather than exclusively propagating the Urim & Thummim version?
Have you seen the Urim & Thummim? I know I haven't. How about any other posters here on this site? Do any of you know what the Urim and Thummim look like? I can't even recall ever seeing any drawings of them.
Blessings,
jo
Here is how an eye witness described the Urim & Thummim...
35 Also, that there were two stones in silver bows—and these stones, fastened to a breastplate, constituted what is called the Urim and Thummim—deposited with the plates; and the possession and use of these stones were what constituted “seers” in ancient or former times; and that God had prepared them for the purpose of translating the book.
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
gdemetz wrote:So drifting, are you now trying to say that Joseph couldn't have put those stones in a hat, for example, if he didn't want another to look upon them?!
I notice you haven't decided to tell us wether you believe all that David Whitmer testified or just the bits that agree with that which you already believe...
There is no mention from any of the eye witnesses of anything that remotely matches the description given of the Urim & Thummim that the Church currently propogates as the only method of translation.
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
gdemetz wrote:Drifting, I think you know already that the prophets were commanded not to allow someone to look upon those if they were not authorized!
But they were allowed to see the rock in a hat method which they testified was how it was done. How come the Church doesn't teach this accurately?
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
Are you sure that he actually saw the rock (stone(s)), or just assumed it was there because Joseph told him and Joseph kept looking at it? Drifting, please come up with some deeper more meaningful points!
gdemetz wrote:Are you sure that he actually saw the rock (stone(s)), or just assumed it was there because Joseph told him and Joseph kept looking at it? Drifting, please come up with some deeper more meaningful points!
Are you saying that we should take Whitmers testimony with a pinch of salt now rather than at face value? Because that seems like a bit of a shift in your position .....
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
