Adding to the Bible?

[_Themis]

Try Moroni's challenge (Moroni 10:4-5).

So again you are just saying something to say something even though it has nothing to do with what I posted and assumed ignorantly that I have not been down that rabbit hole as Samantabhadra puts it. Get back to me if you have anything of substance to say.

[_Drifting]

Try Moroni's challenge (Moroni 10:4-5).

And then what?

1. You feel good about the Book so the Church is true
2. You feel bad about the Book so the Church is true

[_Samantabhadra]

http://www.parkromney.com/

The overwhelming accumulation of this type of evidence, together with staggering evidence that the contemporary leadership of the Church is well aware of this evidence and expends enormous energy and resources to conceal it from the view of its members and the public, has resulted in volumes of well documented books on such subjects. These include, An American Fraud, One Lawyer’s Case against Mormonism, by Kay Burningham; An Insider’s view of Mormon Origins, and The Mormon Corporate Empire by Grant Palmer; and other notable works. My book, The Apostasy of a High Priest – The Sociology of a Mormon Cult, deals with the corrupt epistemology (or doctrinal theory of truth and knowledge) of the Mormon Church which renders the membership susceptible to the level of intellectual absenteeism enabling such preposterous fraud to go unchecked. I was pleased that it received an honorable mention by Kay Burningham in her review of it, in which she referred to it as the “cherry on the cake” of the books dealing with the fraudulent underpinnings of Mormonism. Kay Burningham, by the way, is not only an attorney, but a former Judge pro tem in the San Diego Court system with years of experience in civil litigation, including fraud actions.

[_madeleine]

That is why, when I have spoken with the Tibetan and Christian masters whom I respect the most, they have invariably downplayed the importance of audiovisual spiritual experiences, "miracles" and the like. I have only ever heard it said that these should be ignored and downplayed as far as possible, since a) there is at a certain level really no way to tell whether or not the experience is genuine and b) more importantly, these experiences are not necessary to attain any sort of spiritual progress, and do not necessarily indicate any sort of spiritual progress.

I once asked a spiritual mentor what meaning a particular miracle had. He said, why does it have to mean anything?

Good question.

[_jo1952]

That is why, when I have spoken with the Tibetan and Christian masters whom I respect the most, they have invariably downplayed the importance of audiovisual spiritual experiences, "miracles" and the like. I have only ever heard it said that these should be ignored and downplayed as far as possible, since a) there is at a certain level really no way to tell whether or not the experience is genuine and b) more importantly, these experiences are not necessary to attain any sort of spiritual progress, and do not necessarily indicate any sort of spiritual progress.

Indeed, S!

John 6:26 (KJV)

Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.

This verse has a wonderful minimum of two layers of understanding; a temporal and a spiritual (continue to read Jesus' dissertation to the people for more complete text). To those for whom the miracle was important, they saw only a temporal significance to the miracle of the fishes and the bread. They came back and sought Jesus so that they could get another free meal so that their stomachs could be filled. However, to any for whom the miracle was unimportant, they returned because they had been spiritually fed and filled; and desired to be fed even more spiritual understanding. Jesus is the bread of Life. He that has ears let him hear!!

I think that there were at least a couple of reasons Jesus performed miracles (and also gave His Apostles the power and authority to perform miracles). One was to get the attention of people. Yet the type of miracles He performed had to be more unusual because there were many magicians and soothsayers and such who performed "miracles" which people were accustomed to seeing as part of their culture at that time.

The purpose of the types of miracles which Jesus, and later the Apostles performed which impressed people the most, were also connected to lessons Jesus was teaching. For instance, when Jesus brought sight to the man who had been blind since birth, He was demonstrating great power which Father allowed Him to manifest (as Jesus did only what Father willed Him to do). In fact, Jesus teaches that the purpose this man was born blind was so that his blindness would be a benefit for God's purposes, which were fulfilled when Jesus brought him sight (again there are temporal AND oh so many spiritual understandings to be had here). Also, Jesus purposely performed that miracle on the Sabbath to make an additional point.

Now, in the end times, Satan is going to give power to the beast (isn't that interesting that it will be Satan's power which Satan will give to the beast which has such tremendous power and ability?). And the beast will perform miracles and fool the people. And a second beast shall arise from the sea and will also exercise those same powers. He will be able to make a statue come to life.

Matthew 24:24 (KJV)

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Therefore, I think it is better for us not to be seeking for signs or miracles. Seeing a miracle is not going to be definitive proof that the miracle is being performed by someone in God's camp. So, of what use is it, if spiritual Truth does not accompany it? Rather, we should be developing our spiritual discernment. If whoever we are following isn't furthering our own personal spiritual experiencing which increases our understanding and knowledge of the Kingdom of God which comes to us individually from the Holy Ghost (rather than depending upon someone else's experiencing of the Holy Ghost), then something is wrong. Of course, at first, when we first accept Christ and begin our spiritual journey, our experiencing of the spiritual and our understanding of the spiritual, will be extremely limited. It is in continually seeking and keeping the commandments that we prepare ourselves for additional personal revelation of Truth. This will be absolutely necessary so that as we enter the end times (both spiritually as individuals, and as the earth physically enters the end times), we will not be fooled.

Blessings,

jo

[_Albion]

I believe so, LN.....complete and full in God's revelation of himself in Jesus. All of the Law and the Prophets were pointers to the all encompassing grace of God embodied in his Son and of his offering of himself as a sin offering "once and for all". How do you top that?

[_gdemetz]

You can't top that. What you need to do is become eligible for that atonement by keeping the commandments as He stated! Note the words of James, IN CONTEXT!

"What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he have faith, and have not works? Can faith save him?" {obviously not, or else it would be a very dumb thing for him to imply, oh yea, it could save him anyway, how incredibly dumb!!!}

{James makes a valid comparison here of what the useless faith without works would be!} "If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,"

"And one of you {Evangelists} say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled {and ask Christ just to come into your ole heart}; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body {James is obviously, except to the very grossly blind, making a comparison here to works.}; what doth it profit?"

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead {and that person is also spiritually dead!} being alone."

"Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works; show me thy faith without thy works {evangelist}, and I will show thee my faith by my works {LDS}."

"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well; the devils also believe, and tremble."

"But wilt thou know, O vain man {evangelist}, that faith without works (keeping the commandments) is dead"? {and can not save you!!!}

[_Albion]

Yet again, you mischaracterize Christian belief, making the false argument that Christians merely believe and do nothing else following the new birth of belief. Now, I have no brief to defend Baptist theology but if you have attended so many of their meetings as you claim then you know full well that what you are saying is not true of Christian belief and yet you keep repeating this falsehood. As I have said before, attack Christian belief all you want, but at least get what Christians believe right.

[_gdemetz]

I notice that you didn't refute the scriptures I quoted again, but those scriptures definitely refute the Baptist theology. I am not a fool, and I know exactly what they teach and believe, and it is definitely not what Christ taught!

[_Drifting]

I am not a fool...

'tis better to remain silent and have people think you a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt...