gdemetz wrote:OK Drifting, I will give you my opinion on that. I don't think that a person should bear testimony about something unless he has a true testimony to bear.
But this is an Apostle of the Lord, speaking under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost. Aren't you breaking the whole 'sustaining' of Church Leaders covenant?
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
He he, Drifting. I am trying to be as honest as I can here, and, honestly, I don't agree with him. Prophets don't always speak by the Spirit, and they are certainly not infallible.
gdemetz wrote:He he, Drifting. I am trying to be as honest as I can here, and, honestly, I don't agree with him. Prophets don't always speak by the Spirit, and they are certainly not infallible.
I agree with you 100%. There is ample evidence that Prophets and Apostles get things wrong. The question is, how can you tell if they are speaking with the Spirit or not? Why can't we trust that what they say at General Conference is directly under the spiritual influence of God?
The reality is, that we cannot tell, usually until after they are dead and the Church disavows their words. Wel, that's not much use to us today is it.
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
There is that evidence. However, I think a good analogy would be to compare them as parents, and people like me as the young children. Are the parents always right; no, but generally speaking, I should follow their counsel, especially as it is in line with the scriptures and other truths I've found.
gdemetz wrote:There is that evidence. However, I think a good analogy would be to compare them as parents, and people like me as the young children. Are the parents always right; no, but generally speaking, I should follow their counsel, especially as it is in line with the scriptures and other truths I've found.
I think that's a slightly erroneus example because these men are claimed not as akin to parents. But are in fact claimed as Prophets, Seers and Revelators. Members are taught from a very early age to Follow the Prophet unquestioningly.
"When the Prophet speaks the debate is over" "When the Prophet speaks the thinking has been done" "The Prophet cannot lead the Church astray"
Members are not taught to take what the Prophet says and if they disagree with him then that's okay they can do something different.
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
The great majority of the time that is true, but not always. Remember when Nathan told king David to go ahead and build the temple. However, the Lord had to correct him later.
gdemetz wrote:The great majority of the time that is true, but not always. Remember when Nathan told king David to go ahead and build the temple. However, the Lord had to correct him later.
But that means the Prophet can indeed lead the Church astray. Something we are told is impossible.
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
gdemetz wrote:Not very seriously or the Lord will intervene just as he did with Nathan.
The Priesthood ban and polygamy seemed to go on for rather a long time and to lead a large number of members astray. Both of which took societal uprising to correct, was that the Lord's belated hand?
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator