Adding to the Bible?

[_gdemetz]

Albion, you are mistaken again (This is really getting old!). The JST of the Bible was never completed. If it were, then the church would certainly be using it! Also, all those who can't seem to grasp the meaning of the D&C 132 question should read Jo's post!

[_Franktalk]

Madeleine,

It is obvious that the gulf of understanding between you and me on scripture and the common use of the english language is too wide for either of us to bridge.

[_jo1952]

So, it is interesting to me that Joseph Smith beliefs were closer to "once saved always saved" than the modern LDS church.

He basically believed in the assurance of being saved and that only sinning against the HG could cause you to lose that assured salvation.

In the modern church there is no assurance. Ever. It is pathetic really.

Dear Just Me,

I think you are a good person. What I see is bitterness which may or may not have been perceived by you correctly due to unfortunate things happening in your life. This is a natural reaction for people - in trying to adjust to what is going on in their lives they often misplace their anger. Soon they begin to believe that their anger is based on things that were always there (even though, in truth, they were not); thus creating for themselves a self-fulfilling prophecy of their own making. We all do this to some degree throughout our lives. I did it for 18 years during which time I was very angry with Heavenly Father. It took me 18 years to realize I had misplaced my anger because I did not understand what had happened. I cannot get those 18 years back.

I have watched your anger escalate as you have made the changes in your life which you needed to make in order for you to cope with real or imagined problems. I am sorry for the sorrow in your life and for the emotional anger it has created in you. It is no fun living with anger. It scews a person's perception of everything around them; not just what the original focus of their anger was.

Unfortunately your anger is causing you to misrepresent what the LDS Church teaches. I think you are also confusing what some members believe is being taught, who are incorrect themselves, as well as your own interpretation of what you think is being taught, as opposed to what the Church does actually teach. Meh....this happens in all religions.

May you find peace and happiness so that your wounds may heal quickly. I hope that you will still seek God's Truth and His comfort. He doesn't care what "church" you belong to. Blessings to you and your loved ones.

jo

[_Albion]

Well, dgdemtz, I think Mormons still have a problem. Even if I were to concede that Smith never declared his Bible corrections to be finished, which I believes he did, there are references to the urgent need for him to do so. Why has that urgency not been carried through...surely Tom Monson has all the credentials necessary to finish it? What about Hinckley...or Joseph Fielding Smith, Mormons claim they spoke for God? Did God change his mind and decide it wasn't important after all? You seem to be doing a good job of quoting the JST when it suits you. Is it not used because its lack of scholarship and spiritual insight would be laughed at in this day and age? I personally think so:

"In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was God." This is how Smith "translated" the well known passage in John. I think we can see why Mormons treat it with disrespect by not using it.

[_gdemetz]

Wrong again, Albion. God assigned that task to Joseph Smith, who I am confident will finish it, if he hasn't already. He would have finished it except he was killed by a mob who was led by a priestcraft minister! Anyhow, you don't seem to understand much of the Biblical scriptures which are plain and simple, and I noticed that you didn't respond to all those quotes I gave about gods. so why are you so anxious for that translation anyhow?!?

[_Drifting]

Albion, you are mistaken again (This is really getting old!). The JST of the Bible was never completed. If it were, then the church would certainly be using it! Also, all those who can't seem to grasp the meaning of the D&C 132 question should read Jo's post!

It would seem the other Mormon sects deem it more important than the branch based in SLC...

The Joseph Smith Translation (JST), also called the Inspired Version (IV), was a revision of the Bible by Joseph Smith, the founder of the Latter Day Saint movement. Smith considered this work to be "a branch of his calling" as a prophet. Smith was murdered before he ever deemed it complete, though most of his work on it was performed about a decade previous. The work is the King James Version of the Bible (KJV) with some significant additions and revisions. It is considered a sacred text and is part of the canon of Community of Christ, formerly the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (RLDS), and other Latter Day Saint churches. Selections from the Joseph Smith Translation are also included in the footnotes and the appendix in the LDS-published King James Version of the Bible, but The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) has only officially canonized certain excerpts that appear in its Pearl of Great Price.

[_Albion]

Actually, gedemetz, I do make every attempt to understand the scriptures for the truths they contain. I read them in the context they are given looking prayerfully for the truths they contain rather than looking for ways they might be interpreted to fit Joseph Smith's replacement gospel. You will never find the truth of scripture if your mind is already made up as to what they will mean.

[_jo1952]

Not true.
D&C 132:26
Once you have a temple marriage that's it, you're in.
(assuming you can resist shedding innocent blood)

I don't know that we teach that. I don't know that we emphisis that.

The modern church doesn't really go by the condradictory scriptures now, does it? ;)

Hi Just Me,

Drifting is being less than honest here. Also he chooses to ignore our attempts to help him interpret what he is reading. However, if he were to read our scripture as it is written, he would soon run out of fodder. This took place earlier on this very thread:

No, I don't think so.
Temple marriage also gives this get out of jail free card (see D&C 132:26).
Once you're temple married you are guaranteed entrance to the Celestial Kingdom even if you then go on to sin your ass off and not repent.

Not quite, Drifting. As you can see, the words "and they are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment" is a deal breaker. Being sealed in the Temple is NOT a guaranty that a couple will be "sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise". The sealing ceremony in the Temple is the act of entering the covenant----it is an ordinance that must be performed in accordance with God's keeping order in His Kingdom; just like someone's baptism is not a guaranty that they will achieve Salvation, as they are still susceptible to falling away.

"26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife according to my word, and they are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment, and he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they commit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation; but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be delivered unto the buffetings of Satan unto the day of redemption, saith the Lord God."


Also, please note that if they should be sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise (which I believe is akin to being completely born of the Spirit at which point nothing -- except the spilling of innocent blood -- can keep them from being in God's presence), they will still be punished for any sins they commit: "but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be delivered unto the buffetings of Satan unto the day of redemption". In other words, they will still experience physical death, and still share the fate of anyone else whose sins have not been forgiven; it is just that after they have paid the last farthing, they will still receive Exaltation. Therefore, it is NOT a get-out-of-jail-free card. NOW, should they commit murder wherein they shed innocent blood after having been sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise, that act of murder will undo the sealing of the Holy Spirit of Promise.

Being sealed in the Temple is NOT the same thing as being sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise.

As we have been taught: Mercy cannot rob Justice.

Blessings,

jo

[_Drifting]

Not true.
D&C 132:26
Once you have a temple marriage that's it, you're in.
(assuming you can resist shedding innocent blood)

I don't know that we teach that. I don't know that we emphisis that.

The modern church doesn't really go by the condradictory scriptures now, does it? ;)

Hi Just Me,

Drifting is being less than honest here. Also he chooses to ignore our attempts to help him interpret what he is reading. However, if he were to read our scripture as it is written, he would soon run out of fodder. This took place earlier on this very thread:

No, I don't think so.
Temple marriage also gives this get out of jail free card (see D&C 132:26).
Once you're temple married you are guaranteed entrance to the Celestial Kingdom even if you then go on to sin your ass off and not repent.

Not quite, Drifting. As you can see, the words "and they are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment" is a deal breaker. Being sealed in the Temple is NOT a guaranty that a couple will be "sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise". The sealing ceremony in the Temple is the act of entering the covenant----it is an ordinance that must be performed in accordance with God's keeping order in His Kingdom; just like someone's baptism is not a guaranty that they will achieve Salvation, as they are still susceptible to falling away.

"26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife according to my word, and they are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment, and he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they commit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation; but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be delivered unto the buffetings of Satan unto the day of redemption, saith the Lord God."


Also, please note that if they should be sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise (which I believe is akin to being completely born of the Spirit at which point nothing -- except the spilling of innocent blood -- can keep them from being in God's presence), they will still be punished for any sins they commit: "but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be delivered unto the buffetings of Satan unto the day of redemption". In other words, they will still experience physical death, and still share the fate of anyone else whose sins have not been forgiven; it is just that after they have paid the last farthing, they will still receive Exaltation. Therefore, it is NOT a get-out-of-jail-free card. NOW, should they commit murder wherein they shed innocent blood after having been sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise, that act of murder will undo the sealing of the Holy Spirit of Promise.

Being sealed in the Temple is NOT the same thing as being sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise.

As we have been taught: Mercy cannot rob Justice.

Blessings,

jo

Jo, see the underlined bit in your diatribe.
Exactly what I state, once you have a Temple Marriage you are in.
You get into the CK (exaltation) regardless of sinning your ass off, providing you avoid shedding innocent blood.

So we see that instead of me being less than honest, you actually agree with me.

I await your apology for calling me a liar...

[_jo1952]

Also, please note that if they should be sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise (which I believe is akin to being completely born of the Spirit at which point nothing -- except the spilling of innocent blood -- can keep them from being in God's presence), they will still be punished for any sins they commit: "but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be delivered unto the buffetings of Satan unto the day of redemption". In other words, they will still experience physical death, and still share the fate of anyone else whose sins have not been forgiven; it is just that after they have paid the last farthing, they will still receive Exaltation. Therefore, it is NOT a get-out-of-jail-free card. NOW, should they commit murder wherein they shed innocent blood after having been sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise, that act of murder will undo the sealing of the Holy Spirit of Promise.

Being sealed in the Temple is NOT the same thing as being sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise.

As we have been taught: Mercy cannot rob Justice.

Blessings,

jo

Jo, see the underlined bit in your diatribe.
Exactly what I state, once you have a Temple Marriage you are in.
You get into the CK (exaltation) regardless of sinning your ass off, providing you avoid shedding innocent blood.

So we see that instead of me being less than honest, you actually agree with me.

I await your apology for calling me a liar...

Dear Drifting,

As you know, a person does not need to be LDS in order to have a Temple Marriage. All ordinances required to enter the Celestial Kingdom are done in the Temples by proxy for those who have died without having had their ordinances performed. However, just like for the living, a dead person's Temple Sealing with their earthly spouse (which work is performed by a loving and dedicated member of the LDS Church) MUST still be Sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise in order for a Temple Marriage Sealing to take effect. As such, it is not only the LDS who can benefit from work performed in the Temples.

For instance, even if you, Drifting, continue to choose not to join the LDS Church during your lifetime, will have all Ordinances performed for you after your physical death. If your Temple Sealing is then Sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise, you will also enter Exaltation. However, you will first be delivered unto the buffetings of Satan unto the day of redemption; thus, still sharing the fate of anyone else whose sins have not been forgiven. You will pay every last farthing....just like the LDS. Therefore, if the Holy Spirit of Promise Seals your Temple marriage Sealing, unless you have shed innocent blood, you will be able to enter into Exaltation.

The LDS do not choose or judge whose ordinances they will NOT perform. Rather, they perform this work for ALL; if not while they are living, then by proxy for those who have died. God's promises apply to ALL of His children. We serve Him by serving others. It will still be between God and the individual whether or not the individual achieves Exaltation.

So, as you can see, the rules are no different for the LDS than they are for anyone else. Therefore, it does not matter what church, if any, you attend while you are in the flesh.

Blessings,

jo