Adding to the Bible?

[_Drifting]

Dear Drifting,

As you know, a person does not need to be LDS in order to have a Temple Marriage. All ordinances required to enter the Celestial Kingdom are done in the Temples by proxy for those who have died without having had their ordinances performed.

What other non LDS temples offer ordinances that result in gaining the Celestial Kingdom?

I'm still awaiting that apology...

[_jo1952]

Dear Drifting,

As you know, a person does not need to be LDS in order to have a Temple Marriage. All ordinances required to enter the Celestial Kingdom are done in the Temples by proxy for those who have died without having had their ordinances performed.

What other non LDS temples offer ordinances that result in gaining the Celestial Kingdom?

I'm still awaiting that apology...

Drifting,

Unfortunately, I don't know of any non LDS temples who perform these ordinances. This is why the LDS will be so busy during the Millenium doing the work for all who need their work to be completed; regardless of what their beliefs or non beliefs were during their physical life.

When you become sincere in your desire to seek Truth, the Holy Ghost will help you to see what you are unable to see in the posts between us. The only apology I can give you right now is that I am truly sorry you do not understand my posts; and that you prefer to fight over things that just aren't there---which exist only your mind.

Blessings,

jo

[_gdemetz]

MY mind was not made up, Albion, as you imply. I am a convert to the church. After I learned what silly non Biblical doctrines were being taught out there by other churches, I realized finally that the only church that really makes sense is the LDS. I feel that even many who are opposed to the church see something interesting there, and that is why they spend so much time on this site, right Albion?

[_Drifting]

Dear Drifting,

As you know, a person does not need to be LDS in order to have a Temple Marriage.

CFR

[_jo1952]

CFR

Logic and reason tell me that most proxy ordinances for the dead are done for ancestors whose religion is either unknown, or who are specifically known to not be LDS. For instance, most of my father's ancestors were members of the RCC. The Lamanites are Hebrew, etc.... Certainly, if the person for whom the ordinances are being done by proxy died before 1830 (or 1838 depending on how you look at it--see my following paragraph), they could NOT have been LDS.

by the way, here is some food for thought. Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery were baptized BEFORE the LDS Church was organized. In other words, they weren't LDS even after they were baptized. In fact, it wasn't until 1838 that the name of the Church became officially known as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

Blessings,

jo

[_Samantabhadra]

CFR

Logic and reason tell me that most proxy ordinances for the dead are done for ancestors whose religion is either unknown, or who are specifically known to not be LDS. For instance, most of my father's ancestors were members of the RCC. The Lamanites are Hebrew, etc.... Certainly, if the person for whom the ordinances are being done by proxy died before 1830 (or 1838 depending on how you look at it--see my following paragraph), they could NOT have been LDS.

by the way, here is some food for thought. Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery were baptized BEFORE the LDS Church was organized. In other words, they weren't LDS even after they were baptized. In fact, it wasn't until 1838 that the name of the Church became officially known as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

Blessings,

jo

1) That's not what Drifting meant and you know it. Give even a single example of a contemporary, living non-member who participated in a Temple Marriage. Hell, I'll settle for words from a Mormon authority to the effect that it is even possible.

2) There are no Lamanites. Native Americans are completely and utterly unrelated to Hebrews. Do some reading.

[_Drifting]

CFR

Logic and reason tell me that most proxy ordinances for the dead are done for ancestors whose religion is either unknown, or who are specifically known to not be LDS. For instance, most of my father's ancestors were members of the RCC. The Lamanites are Hebrew, etc.... Certainly, if the person for whom the ordinances are being done by proxy died before 1830 (or 1838 depending on how you look at it--see my following paragraph), they could NOT have been LDS.

by the way, here is some food for thought. Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery were baptized BEFORE the LDS Church was organized. In other words, they weren't LDS even after they were baptized. In fact, it wasn't until 1838 that the name of the Church became officially known as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

Blessings,

jo

You see, this is why you are wrong.
In order for a dead person to have their proxy sealing done, they must first have had their proxy baptism done. Ergo they are (albeit dead) members of the Church.

[_jo1952]

1) That's not what Drifting meant and you know it. Give even a single example of a contemporary, living non-member who participated in a Temple Marriage. Hell, I'll settle for words from a Mormon authority to the effect that it is even possible.

Hello S,

Here is where Drifting pulled my statement as originally posted in complete context. As you can see, I DID know what he was asking; and I responded accordingly. For your convenience, I have bolded the sentence which clarifies my comment was concerning work done for the dead.

Dear Drifting,

As you know, a person does not need to be LDS in order to have a Temple Marriage. All ordinances required to enter the Celestial Kingdom are done in the Temples by proxy for those who have died without having had their ordinances performed. However, just like for the living, a dead person's Temple Sealing with their earthly spouse (which work is performed by a loving and dedicated member of the LDS Church) MUST still be Sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise in order for a Temple Marriage Sealing to take effect. As such, it is not only the LDS who can benefit from work performed in the Temples.

2) There are no Lamanites. Native Americans are completely and utterly unrelated to Hebrews. Do some reading.

I would beg to differ with you. There are several books which describe that many of the American Indians were of Hebraic descent, of which I will mention two: "The History of the American Indians", written by James Adair, originally published in 1775; and, "A Star in the West", written by Elias Boudinot in 1816. There is also a DVD available with excellent sources called "Lost Civilizations of North America". The DVD mentions several books--some of which are available on-line as free downloads.

Blessings,

jo

[_jo1952]

You see, this is why you are wrong.
In order for a dead person to have their proxy sealing done, they must first have had their proxy baptism done. Ergo they are (albeit dead) members of the Church.

Drifting,

I have been through this argument before with others. The Church is merely a vehicle being used to keep records in some semblance of order because God's Kingdom is a House of Order. Just because a dead person has had their ordinances performed does not, in reality, make them a member of the LDS Church. This is a technicality necessary in order to make sure that a dead person's ordinances have been performed by someone with the power and authority to do so. Since it is up to the dead person to either accept or reject the ordinances, that person is NOT LDS just because someone who WAS LDS stood in proxy for them. In other words, it is for administrative and mortal identification purposes only; and is only used in this mortal dispensation.

In other dispensations, there was no LDS Church. When Jesus gave the Keys to the Kingdom to Peter, there was no LDS Church. When Melchizedek lived during Abraham's time, there was no LDS Church. The Book of Mormon mentions no LDS Church. When Peter, James and John gave the Keys to the Kingdom to Joseph Smith, there was no LDS Church. When Christ returns and Satan is defeated, there will be no LDS Church. There are only two churches on the Earth. One is the Church of the Lamb of God (as it is called in the Book of Mormon), a.k.a. The Church of God (as it is called in the Bible), inside of which the LDS Church functions. The other is the Church of the Devil. "Official" membership in any historical or modern day church which represents belief in our Savior does NOT automatically make that member a true member of the Church of the Lamb of God (or a true member of the "body of Christ"). A True member of the Church of the Lamb of God MUST be born of the Spirit. The ordinances are a formality of the covenants which need to be made with God. The "sealing" of the Holy Spirit of Promise is the spiritual confirmation that a person has, indeed, been completely born of the Spirit, at which point the covenants which were made in the flesh allow a person to enter into Exaltation.

Whichever organization holds the Keys to the Kingdom of God in any particular dispensation holds the Power and Authority to bind or loose. They do not have exclusivity to the Kingdom of God - as the Kingdom of God is available to all of mankind. They do not have exclusivity to the Holy Ghost - as the Holy Ghost is available as a gift from God to all of mankind. The Messiah does not belong to the LDS Church. As I said before, the LDS Church is a vehicle. The LDS Church is NOT the Kingdom of God. Indeed, the LDS Church is a manifestation of the mortal world. It will not exist eternally.

Also, it is the Holy Spirit of Promise who ultimately seals/confirms that a Sealing performed in any dispensation has become accepted by Father. The sealings and loosenings, which need to be performed in the flesh, are NOT a guaranty that the Holy Spirit of Promise will place a spiritual confirmation upon them.

Your interpretation of these events is an error perpetuated by other members of the LDS Church who have also unintentionally been in error to support such a position.

Blessings,

jo

[_Drifting]

Jo,

If they don't accept baptism then their sealing isn't valid.
Ergo, only members are sealed.