Bible verse by verse

[_LittleNipper]

Genesis 15:1-21 Abram has a vision and God says He is Abram's shield and will reward him. Abram says what can God provide since Abram is childless. He has a domestic (Demnesek) whom he considers as a son. God says that Abram will beget a son. And God had Abram look at the sky. And God tells Abram that his decendants will number the stars in the heavens, that God gave him the land where Abram was. Abram asks, how do can he know this will all happen. And God makes a covenant with Abram. God asks Abram for take a heifer, a she-goat of three years, and a ram all of three years of age --- plus a turtle-dove, and a young bird. These were cut in half and laid so God could walk between the halfs --- all except the young bird. And hungary birds came and attacked the meat and Abram chased them away. The sun is going down and Abram falls asleep. God says that Abram's descendants will reside in slavery for 400 years in a foreign land. This foreign country will be judged and his descendants will leave with great wealth. Abram will die at peace very old. When the sun finally goes down smoke and a flame passed between the halves of the offering. Abram is given all the land from the river of Egypt to the river Phrat.
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

1 After these things hath the word of Jehovah been unto Abram in a vision, saying, `Fear not, Abram, I [am] a shield to thee, thy reward [is] exceeding great.'

2 And Abram saith, `Lord Jehovah, what dost Thou give to me, and I am going childless? and an acquired son in my house is Demmesek Eliezer.'

3 And Abram saith, `Lo, to me Thou hast not given seed, and lo, a domestic doth heir me.'

4 And lo, the word of Jehovah [is] unto him, saying, `This [one] doth not heir thee; but he who cometh out from thy bowels, he doth heir thee;'

5 and He bringeth him out without, and saith, `Look attentively, I pray thee, towards the heavens, and count the stars, if thou art able to count them;' and He saith to him, `Thus is thy seed.'

6 And he hath believed in Jehovah, and He reckoneth it to him -- righteousness.

7 And He saith unto him, `I [am] Jehovah who brought thee out from Ur of the Chaldees, to give to thee this land to possess it;'

8 and he saith, `Lord Jehovah, whereby do I know that I possess it?'

9 And He saith unto him, `Take for Me a heifer of three years, and a she-goat of three years, and a ram of three years, and a turtle-dove, and a young bird;'

10 and he taketh to him all these, and separateth them in the midst, and putteth each piece over against its fellow, but the bird he hath not divided;

11 and the ravenous birds come down upon the carcases, and Abram causeth them to turn back.

12 And the sun is about to go in, and deep sleep hath fallen upon Abram, and lo, a terror of great darkness is falling upon him;

13 and He saith to Abram, `knowing -- know that thy seed is a sojourner in a land not theirs, and they have served them, and they have afflicted them four hundred years,

14 and the nation also whom they serve I judge, and after this they go out with great substance;

15 and thou -- thou comest in unto thy fathers in peace; thou art buried in a good old age;

16 and the fourth generation doth turn back hither, for the iniquity of the Amorite is not yet complete.'

17 And it cometh to pass -- the sun hath gone in, and thick darkness hath been -- and lo, a furnace of smoke, and a lamp of fire, which hath passed over between those pieces.

18 In that day hath Jehovah made with Abram a covenant, saying, `To thy seed I have given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Phrat,

19 with the Kenite, and the Kenizzite, and the Kadmonite,

20 and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, and the Rephaim,

21 and the Amorite, and the Canaanite, and the Girgashite, and the Jebusite.'

[_Quasimodo]

My suggestion is that you read the following: http://www.apologeticspress.org/apconte ... rticle=357

Thanks Nipper! I did that.

I find that the web site you suggested is written by people that have a preconceived idea of the Bible. They believe that it is the result of God's inspiration. Comforting if you are already a believer, but not a very good way to make an unbiased conclusion. There is, of course, no way to prove that it truly is inspired of God. That is a matter of faith.

Perhaps you could remind me what the value of faith is. I'm a little confused about that.

[_gdemetz]

That's exactly right! That's just another "Papa Joe" site which is filled with preconceived ideas, but lacking Biblical truths! Nipper, you are wrong again. The term "Only Begotten" is a shortened version of the original which is "The only begotten in the flesh," or in other words the only begotten son of God of flesh (meaning mortal flesh). This term has nothing to do with all the spirit children that were begotten by God as He is referred to correctly in Hebrews 12:9 as the "FATHER OF SPIRITS," and again in Acts 17:28 which states that "WE ARE HIS OFFSPRING." For that matter it has nothing to do with Adam, Eve, and all the first parents of all the worlds He has organized since they were also immortal when He begat them (see Luke 3:38 - not the "Papa Joe" translation!)!

[_LittleNipper]

That's exactly right! That's just another "Papa Joe" site which is filled with preconceived ideas, but lacking Biblical truths! Nipper, you are wrong again. The term "Only Begotten" is a shortened version of the original which is "The only begotten in the flesh," or in other words the only begotten son of God of flesh (meaning mortal flesh). This term has nothing to do with all the spirit children that were begotten by God as He is referred to correctly in Hebrews 12:9 as the "FATHER OF SPIRITS," and again in Acts 17:28 which states that "WE ARE HIS OFFSPRING." For that matter it has nothing to do with Adam, Eve, and all the first parents of all the worlds He has organized since they were also immortal when He begat them (see Luke 3:38 - not the "Papa Joe" translation!)!

The Mormon sites are full of the Book of Mormon with a little Humanism, Scientology, and Gnosticism. A person who is born again gets a new spirit and becomes an adopted child of God through the Lord Jesus Christ. God is the Father of those spirits and not evil ones. We have all been born of flesh. Who is being addressed in Acts. It is not everybody...

[_LittleNipper]

My suggestion is that you read the following: http://www.apologeticspress.org/apconte ... rticle=357

Thanks Nipper! I did that.

I find that the web site you suggested is written by people that have a preconceived idea of the Bible. They believe that it is the result of God's inspiration. Comforting if you are already a believer, but not a very good way to make an unbiased conclusion. There is, of course, no way to prove that it truly is inspired of God. That is a matter of faith.

Perhaps you could remind me what the value of faith is. I'm a little confused about that.

Preconcieved ideas? And you are going to tell me Mormon sites do not? Agnostic sites do not? Atheistic sites do not? Evolutionist sites do not? However, in the case of the site I showed to you, they are not insincere about spelling out what they believe and filling everyone in about it. There are no secret rituals, or hidden rooms. They are entirely open... Christians should be that way.

[_Quasimodo]

Preconcieved ideas? And you are going to tell me Mormon sites do not? Agnostic sites do not? Atheistic sites do not? Evolutionist sites do not? However, in the case of the site I showed to you, they are not insincere about spelling out what they believe and filling everyone in about it. There are no secret rituals, or hidden rooms. They are entirely open...

OK, kudos for their honesty in stating their intentions up front.

Agnostics and atheists generally don't have preconceived beliefs. That's what agnostics and atheists are all about. I can't answer for Mormons since I've never been one. Evolutionists (funny term) usually hold to what current scientific knowledge dictates. They have no religious ax to grind and are quite happy with whatever history and science turns up.

I just have very serious trouble believing people who start with premises learned in their childhood and then try to find some dubious facts to support them. You should have trouble with that too, if you would like to be honest.

[_LittleNipper]

Genesis 16:1-16 Sarai had not borne Abram any children; but she had an Egyptian slave-girl, named Hagar. Sarai said to her husband that she could not bear children; so use her slave-girl, and perhaps she shall have children through her. And Abram gave into Sarai. She gave Hagar the Egyptian slave-girl to her husband to wife; this happened ten years after that they had begun to live in the land of Canaan. Hagar saw that she had conceived, and she despised her mistress. And Sarai said to Abram that he must have been overly affectionate, and since Hagar is with child she treats Sarai like dirt. Abram answered and said the slave-girl is Sarai's --- she can do what she wishes. And so then Sarai made Haggar's life unbearable -- and she ran away. And angel of the Lord (likely Christ) came to Hagar by a well. He tells Hagar to return to Sarai repentant and he tells Hagar that her descendants shall not be able to be counted for their number. She was told she would have a son and that she should call him Ishmael. (the Lord heard my torment). And Ishmael will be a wild guy and he will be at odds with everyone and they will be against him. And Hagar also believes she saw God for she crys, LORD! Here (by the well) she saw him who sees her face to face (and lived). The well came to be called "The well of the Living One, my beholder." located between Kadesh and Bered. And Hagar gave a son to Abram (age 86), and he named him Ishmael.

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

16 And Sarai, Abram's wife, hath not borne to him, and she hath an handmaid, an Egyptian, and her name [is] Hagar;

2 and Sarai saith unto Abram, `Lo, I pray thee, Jehovah hath restrained me from bearing, go in, I pray thee, unto my handmaid; perhaps I am built up from her;' and Abram hearkeneth to the voice of Sarai.

3 And Sarai, Abram's wife, taketh Hagar the Egyptian, her handmaid, at the end of the tenth year of Abram's dwelling in the land of Canaan, and giveth her to Abram her husband, to him for a wife,

4 and he goeth in unto Hagar, and she conceiveth, and she seeth that she hath conceived, and her mistress is lightly esteemed in her eyes.

5 And Sarai saith unto Abram, `My violence [is] for thee; I -- I have given mine handmaid into thy bosom, and she seeth that she hath conceived, and I am lightly esteemed in her eyes; Jehovah doth judge between me and thee.'

6 And Abram saith unto Sarai, `Lo, thine handmaid [is] in thine hand, do to her that which is good in thine eyes;' and Sarai afflicted her, and she fleeth from her presence.

7 And a messenger of Jehovah findeth her by the fountain of water in the wilderness, by the fountain in the way [to] Shur,

8 and he saith, `Hagar, Sarai's handmaid, whence hast thou come, and whither dost thou go?' and she saith, `From the presence of Sarai, my mistress, I am fleeing.'

9 And the messenger of Jehovah saith to her, `Turn back unto thy mistress, and humble thyself under her hands;'

10 and the messenger of Jehovah saith to her, `Multiplying I multiply thy seed, and it is not numbered from multitude;'

11 and the messenger of Jehovah saith to her, `Behold thou [art] conceiving, and bearing a son, and hast called his name Ishmael, for Jehovah hath hearkened unto thine affliction;

12 and he is a wild-ass man, his hand against every one, and every one's hand against him -- and before the face of all his brethren he dwelleth.'

13 And she calleth the name of Jehovah who is speaking unto her, `Thou [art], O God, my beholder;' for she said, `Even here have I looked behind my beholder?'

14 therefore hath one called the well, `The well of the Living One, my beholder;' lo, between Kadesh and Bered.

15 And Hagar beareth to Abram a son; and Abram calleth the name of his son, whom Hagar hath borne, Ishmael;

16 and Abram [is] a son of eighty and six years in Hagar's bearing Ishmael to Abram.

[Guest]

Genesis 17:1-27 Abram now 99 gets a visit from God. God again reminds Abram that he will be the father on many nations. As a token representing this Abram and all males of in his group are to be circumcised. Baby boys at eight days are to be circumcised. Every male servant Abram now owns or buys in the future is to be circumcised by Abram. This includes all male descendants. Sarai is to now be called Sarah. She will have a son. Abraham laughs in his heart at being a father (being 100) and is Sarah to be a bearing mother at 90? God tells Abrham that He has blessed Ishmael; however, Sarah will conceive a baby in a year, and the child is to be named Isaac. And that very day Abraham circumised every male in his household, including Ishmael, who was then 13 years old.


Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

1 And Abram is a son of ninety and nine years, and Jehovah appeareth unto Abram, and saith unto him, `I [am] God Almighty, walk habitually before Me, and be thou perfect;

2 and I give My covenant between Me and thee, and multiply thee very exceedingly.'

3 And Abram falleth upon his face, and God speaketh with him, saying,

4 `I -- lo, My covenant [is] with thee, and thou hast become father of a multitude of nations;

5 and thy name is no more called Abram, but thy name hath been Abraham, for father of a multitude of nations have I made thee;

6 and I have made thee exceeding fruitful, and made thee become nations, and kings go out from thee.

7 `And I have established My covenant between Me and thee, and thy seed after thee, to their generations, for a covenant age-during, to become God to thee, and to thy seed after thee;

8 and I have given to thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land of thy sojournings, the whole land of Canaan, for a possession age-during, and I have become their God.'

9 And God saith unto Abraham, `And thou dost keep My covenant, thou and thy seed after thee, to their generations;

10 this [is] My covenant which ye keep between Me and you, and thy seed after thee: Every male of you [is] to be circumcised;

11 and ye have circumcised the flesh of your foreskin, and it hath become a token of a covenant between Me and you.

12 `And a son of eight days is circumcised by you; every male to your generations, born in the house, or bought with money from any son of a stranger, who is not of thy seed;

13 he is certainly circumcised who [is] born in thine house, or bought with thy money; and My covenant hath become in your flesh a covenant age-during;

14 and an uncircumcised one, a male, the flesh of whose foreskin is not circumcised, even that person hath been cut off from his people; My covenant he hath broken.'

15 And God saith unto Abraham, `Sarai thy wife -- thou dost not call her name Sarai, for Sarah [is] her name;

16 and I have blessed her, and have also given to thee a son from her; and I have blessed her, and she hath become nations -- kings of peoples are from her.'

17 And Abraham falleth upon his face, and laugheth, and saith in his heart, `To the son of an hundred years is one born? or doth Sarah -- daughter of ninety years -- bear?'

18 And Abraham saith unto God, `O that Ishmael may live before Thee;'

19 and God saith, `Sarah thy wife is certainly bearing a son to thee, and thou hast called his name Isaac, and I have established My covenant with him, for a covenant age-during, to his seed after him.

20 As to Ishmael, I have heard thee; lo, I have blessed him, and made him fruitful, and multiplied him, very exceedingly; twelve princes doth he beget, and I have made him become a great nation;

21 and My covenant I establish with Isaac, whom Sarah doth bear to thee at this appointed time in the next year;'

22 and He finisheth speaking with him, and God goeth up from Abraham.

23 And Abraham taketh Ishmael his son, and all those born in his house, and all those bought with his money -- every male among the men of Abraham's house -- and circumciseth the flesh of their foreskin, in this self-same day, as God hath spoken with him.

24 And Abraham [is] a son of ninety and nine years in the flesh of his foreskin being circumcised;

25 and Ishmael his son [is] a son of thirteen years in the flesh of his foreskin being circumcised;

26 in this self-same day hath Abraham been circumcised, and Ishmael his son;

27 and all the men of his house -- born in the house, and bought with money from the son of a stranger -- have been circumcised with him.

[_Quasimodo]

Yawn! We have all read this. It was very dull the first time I read it. Please move on. Maybe you could skip to the last page and let us fill in the rest.

[_LittleNipper]

Yawn! We have all read this. It was very dull the first time I read it. Please move on. Maybe you could skip to the last page and let us fill in the rest.

You've been exposed to the ringing of bells for too long...