Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

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_keithb
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Re: Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

Post by _keithb »

LittleNipper wrote:God cannot murder. He is the Creator. Everything belongs to Him. You and I own nothing. We can take nothing with us. We exist because of God and we cannot exist without God. When you or I murder someone without God's due process, we are playing god. God is Love and Peace. However, God is also justice. He hates spite, violence, murder. People reap what they sow. I think it is very ugly for people to imagine that they can do, say and behave any way they wish and that there should be no reprocussions. I feel my God is more than merciful. And the God of the Bible very slow to anger.


So, in other words, you feel that God was justified in killing all of those people and animals. Good to know.

Similarly, when a child is starving to death in India in the present day, is this simply a manifestation of God's divine plan for that child? Why then should Christians (and Mormons) spend so much time allegedly trying to help the poor?
"Joseph Smith was called as a prophet, dumb-dumb-dumb-dumb-dumb" -South Park
_Drifting
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Re: Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

Post by _Drifting »

subgenius wrote:Drift...countless proofs have been provided by me in previous threads (for example), all without your rebuttal, so likely this means you agree.

But let us look at some key points, in a short short list just to get the ball rolling:
Logical evidence
1. It is very unlikely that a "localized" area experienced rain for 40 day/night.
2. The rainbow's first appearance reinforces the notion that a cataclysmic event took place. Otherwise, its just business as usual...but this was a dramatic atmospheric event.
3. Local flood would not remain in place for a year
4. A local flood could not destroy all the living things upon the earth
5. The indicated design size of the ark is way too excessive for just local species of animals.
6. Spending over a century to build an ark in unlikely if Noah could have just relocated to an area away form the flood.
7. If God lied about the flood then He is in fact not God and unable to provide salvation.

Science evidence
1. The glacial period began quickly, which would require a cataclysmic event to trigger such a global climate change...the flood is a possible event as that trigger.
2. The geologic record indicates many identical features across varied ages of rocks, indicating a certain event, such as a flood, may have occurred.
3. The Paleontology record indicates that the global climate was warm and humid, indicative of a flood event.
4. The global distribution of fossil graveyards
5. The rapid covering of animal footprints on the geologic column
6. The global distribution of river terraces
7. Only modern sedimentary layers show evidence of surface drainage
8. The near-random deposition of formational sequences
9. Historically raised shorelines
10. Human artifacts that would be from pre-flood dates are currently undiscovered and thus inaccessible anywhere.
11. The scientific community actually has not discounted the probability that a global flood did occur, just not sure about how or when.
12. Ballard and Pittman's discoveries under the Black Dea
13. Masse's comet theory
14. There are no living organisms today that are older than the date of the flood (ie Redwood trees)

and aside from the obvious references in the Old Testament, the New Testament continues to reference that the flood had occurred...see the books of Job, Matthew, Luke, Peter, and Hebrews.


So, while there is a mound of scriptural, logical, archaeological, and scientific evidence which can easily be concluded to support the occurrence of a global flood....many people, such as yourself, seem to reside on the idea that since no one posted a youtube video of the flood then surely it did not, nor could not, have happened.....which is actually the funnier notion and ultimately is yet another indicator of why many atheists and their ilk are in such an incredibly minority in the "global" population....little genetic defects they are.


So, do you believe that there was a literal worldwide flood that killed every living human with the exception of the people on the ark circa 2,300BC?

(just a yes or a no will suffice)
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
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_Drifting
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Re: Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

Post by _Drifting »

keithb wrote:
LittleNipper wrote:God cannot murder. He is the Creator. Everything belongs to Him. You and I own nothing. We can take nothing with us. We exist because of God and we cannot exist without God. When you or I murder someone without God's due process, we are playing god. God is Love and Peace. However, God is also justice. He hates spite, violence, murder. People reap what they sow. I think it is very ugly for people to imagine that they can do, say and behave any way they wish and that there should be no reprocussions. I feel my God is more than merciful. And the God of the Bible very slow to anger.


So, in other words, you feel that God was justified in killing all of those people and animals. Good to know.

Similarly, when a child is starving to death in India in the present day, is this simply a manifestation of God's divine plan for that child? Why then should Christians (and Mormons) spend so much time allegedly trying to help the poor?


Little Nipper,

In addition to Keith's excellent question.
How is a child suffering abuse 'reaping what they sow'?
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
_bcuzbcuz
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Re: Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

Post by _bcuzbcuz »

subgenius wrote:12. Ballard and Pittman's discoveries under the Black Dea (Sea sic )

and ultimately is yet another indicator of why many atheists and their ilk are in such an incredibly minority in the "global" population....little genetic defects they are.


A careful reading of Pittman's conclusions and of his critics may show that his theory is not all that convincing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_deluge_theory

Of course we atheists are in a minority and defective. God made us that way.
And in the end, the love you take, is equal to the love...you make. PMcC
_LittleNipper
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Re: Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

Post by _LittleNipper »

keithb wrote:
LittleNipper wrote:God cannot murder. He is the Creator. Everything belongs to Him. You and I own nothing. We can take nothing with us. We exist because of God and we cannot exist without God. When you or I murder someone without God's due process, we are playing god. God is Love and Peace. However, God is also justice. He hates spite, violence, murder. People reap what they sow. I think it is very ugly for people to imagine that they can do, say and behave any way they wish and that there should be no reprocussions. I feel my God is more than merciful. And the God of the Bible very slow to anger.


So, in other words, you feel that God was justified in killing all of those people and animals. Good to know.

Similarly, when a child is starving to death in India in the present day, is this simply a manifestation of God's divine plan for that child? Why then should Christians (and Mormons) spend so much time allegedly trying to help the poor?

Is the starving the result of Christianity or Humanism? The reality is that schools and orphanages exist in India mainly as the result of the work of Christians. Christians are the messengers and hands of God. Christians receive training and blessing from listening to God and in helping others they expose unbelievers to the personal Love of God.
_subgenius
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Re: Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

Post by _subgenius »

keithb wrote:So, in other words, you feel that God was justified in killing all of those people and animals. Good to know.

you have a ways to go before you try to be a "zinger-by-way-of-the-old-"in other words"-trick
and you do need correction...it is not that God is justified, He is entitled. Just as you are entitled to savor the flavor of a steak, the bite of an apple, and the freedom to express yourself as it may or may not offend another.

keithb wrote:Similarly, when a child is starving to death in India in the present day, is this simply a manifestation of God's divine plan for that child? Why then should Christians (and Mormons) spend so much time allegedly trying to help the poor?

and your amateur status is showing
you asking why a "child is left to starve" is a glaring indication that you may be blissfully unaware of the topic you so wish to criticize....as a result of your above comment, you may be surprised to discover that Adam and Eve were exiled from the Garden of Eden.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
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_subgenius
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Re: Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

Post by _subgenius »

bcuzbcuz wrote:A careful reading of Pittman's conclusions and of his critics may show that his theory is not all that convincing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_deluge_theory

yes, critics have a way of doing that...but nevertheless, it is just a criticism....just as many theories are criticized. I on the other hand am not "convinced" by the criticisms....as they are subject to criticism as well. I only offered evidence.

bcuzbcuz wrote:Of course we atheists are in a minority and defective. God made us that way.

Actually, you chose to be that way...the ability to choose is how God made you, how you use it is up to you, so take some responsibility....typical atheist shortcoming both in knowledge of God and application of life.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_LittleNipper
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Re: Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

Post by _LittleNipper »

Drifting wrote:
keithb wrote:
How is a child suffering abuse 'reaping what they sow'?


It doesn't have to be the sin of the child. It can be the sin of the parents, the sin of neighbors, the sin of society, the sin of humanism (man designed religious thinking). The child may very well be the victim. I am reminded of the story of the Little Match Girl. It is just a tale; however, it makes the point. God came for her and she and she died. Death is not the most terrible thing that can happen to anyone. Hell is the worst. Life is fleeting. Once one gets out of High School, the decades fly by. Look at Paul McCartney. Who would ever imagine a Beatle being an old man --- Yesterday came suddenly...
_Drifting
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Re: Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

Post by _Drifting »

LittleNipper wrote:
Drifting wrote:
How is a child suffering abuse 'reaping what they sow'?


It doesn't have to be the sin of the child. It can be the sin of the parents, the sin of neighbors, the sin of society, the sin of humanism (man designed religious thinking). The child may very well be the victim. I am reminded of the story of the Little Match Girl. It is just a tale; however, it makes the point. God came for her and she and she died. Death is not the most terrible thing that can happen to anyone. Hell is the worst. Life is fleeting. Once one gets out of High School, the decades fly by. Look at Paul McCartney. Who would ever imagine a Beatle being an old man --- Yesterday came suddenly...[/quote]

But that would be someone else reaping what you sow.
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
_LittleNipper
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Re: Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

Post by _LittleNipper »

Drifting wrote:
LittleNipper wrote:It doesn't have to be the sin of the child. It can be the sin of the parents, the sin of neighbors, the sin of society, the sin of humanism (man designed religious thinking). The child may very well be the victim. I am reminded of the story of the Little Match Girl. It is just a tale; however, it makes the point. God came for her and she and she died. Death is not the most terrible thing that can happen to anyone. Hell is the worst. Life is fleeting. Once one gets out of High School, the decades fly by. Look at Paul McCartney. Who would ever imagine a Beatle being an old man --- Yesterday came suddenly...


But that would be someone else reaping what you sow.

The sin of others can have such an affect... Remember that when someone says, "What I do cannot hurt you!"
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