Did we have a pre-premortal existence?

[_Drifting]

Thomas S Monson stated the following Revelation at Conference.

"Arthur Patton died quickly."

He did so at the same time as demonstrating that he really didn't know where, when, how, or even if, Patton (a childhood friend allegedly) had died at all.

Nobody knows wether Patton died quickly or not. Not even his family.
But Monson knew....

[Guest]

Monson also called someone to speak at a conference who was not even there, but the person felt suddenly inspired to hurry and go there, and as Monson announced him as a speaker, much to the horror of the man who said he would not be there, the man walked in and went up to the stand to speak. If your ears would not have been spiritually deaf, then maybe you would have heard that.

Also, the prophesy states that the southern states would CALL on other nations for assistance, and it makes no mention about the actual help. You and others here should also do a little more research as to the wars before and after that time! And, by the way Albion, it may have not been too difficult to predict the Civil war, but the South Carolina part was not just a lucky guess!!!

[_Drifting]

Monson also called someone to speak at a conference who was not even there, but the person felt suddenly inspired to hurry and go there, and as Monson announced him as a speaker, much to the horror of the man who said he would not be there, the man walked in and went up to the stand to speak. If your ears would not have been spiritually deaf, then maybe you would have heard that.

Come on then, link or reference this tale...

[_jo1952]

Jo, I think you are being obtuse with your response which does not address the point I am making so I'll repeat it as basically as I can. The spiritual gift of prophesy is alive and well in individuals together with all other spiritual gifts. The need for prophets of the type shown in the Old Testament is fulfilled in Christ who is the only high priest we need...a high priest who, once and for all, has made the ultimate atonement in himself and sits as our intercessor at the right hand of God.

Albion,

And I think you are avoiding what your belief looks like. Also, all of the prophecies about Jesus have not yet been fulfilled; i.e., concerning the end times. In the Old Testament you can read about Jacob's Trouble, the end time prophecies made by Daniel, Zephiniah, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, in Numbers., etc. In the New Testament read about Christ's Second Coming in Matthew, I & II Timothy, Revelation, etc.

You have also ignored how it is that we would never have known that Jesus had come in the flesh if it had not been for the New Testament books which were written AFTER Jesus' Ascension. I think that makes the writers of the New Testament books pretty darn important. Surely, if Jesus didn't think their message was important or necessary, He would never have called any Apostles at all; nor would Jesus have given any of them any revelations about future prophecies. He would merely have sent the Holy Ghost to the earth.

Christ's Atonement creates the path for us to return to God. However, our learning of Him and accepting Him as our Savior is only the beginning of our journey. Jesus has returned to the right hand of Father; but He has not left us comfortless. It is the Holy Spirit who leads us to All Truth. Yes, Jesus is the Truth, Light, and the Way. However, without the Holy Ghost, we cannot be lead to All Truth; which Jesus also taught His Apostles that He had NOT revealed to them. Jesus didn't teach them all that He knew; He taught them what the Father wanted them to know....which is all that they were able to grasp or understand at that point. Their journey involved a progression which prepared them to receive more and more Truth from the Holy Spirit. The same is true for each of us. However, if we didn't know this, then how could get on that path? I also think that the two prophets who will come in accordance with the Book of Revelation are going to rank pretty high as prophets; Jesus personally revealed them to John.

Blessings,

jo

[_Albion]

As Paul made it abundantly clear, in times PAST God spoke to us through his prophet but now he speaks to us through his Son. Jo, the Gospel is really a very simple thing..designed so that everyone can understand it but Mormons want to add so many hurdles and tests to it that they are like hamsters on a wheel, continually making effort to turn it and get somewhere. Give up your struggle, rest in Jesus, he has done everything necessary for full and complete salvation for all who simply trust in him and allow him to carry the load.

"Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you." Now, Jo, what is the essence of this gospel that Paul preached to them? "For what I received I passed on to you as of FIRST IMPORTANCE: that Christ died for our sin according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures." This is the essence of the gospel, the gospel that Paul preached. No add ons, no embellishments...the simple good news of the death and resurrection of the Savior. In verse 31 and 32 of chapter one in the same book Paul makes it very clear: "It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God -- that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. Therefore it is written: 'Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."

What do you boast in, Jo? The quality of your visiting teaching...the number of times you go to the temple in a month...the tithing you pay...how frequently you attend church...that you have all your Primary and Young Women's hurdles checked off. Give it up, Jo, the only peace you will find in life is in a relationship with the one who loves you so much he gave his life for you at Calvary so that you would not waste your time struggling to earn a righteousness which you can never achieve but which he offers you as a free gift through his amazing grace. Jesus is sufficient.

[_jo1952]

As Paul made it abundantly clear, in times PAST God spoke to us through his prophet but now he speaks to us through his Son. Jo, the Gospel is really a very simple thing..designed so that everyone can understand it but Mormons want to add so many hurdles and tests to it that they are like hamsters on a wheel, continually making effort to turn it and get somewhere. Give up your struggle, rest in Jesus, he has done everything necessary for full and complete salvation for all who simply trust in him and allow him to carry the load.

"Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you." Now, Jo, what is the essence of this gospel that Paul preached to them? "For what I received I passed on to you as of FIRST IMPORTANCE: that Christ died for our sin according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures." This is the essence of the gospel, the gospel that Paul preached. No add ons, no embellishments...the simple good news of the death and resurrection of the Savior. In verse 31 and 32 of chapter one in the same book Paul makes it very clear: "It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God -- that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. Therefore it is written: 'Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."

What do you boast in, Jo? The quality of your visiting teaching...the number of times you go to the temple in a month...the tithing you pay...how frequently you attend church...that you have all your Primary and Young Women's hurdles checked off. Give it up, Jo, the only peace you will find in life is in a relationship with the one who loves you so much he gave his life for you at Calvary so that you would not waste your time struggling to earn a righteousness which you can never achieve but which he offers you as a free gift through his amazing grace. Jesus is sufficient.

It amazes me that you throw out the rest of what the Apostles taught. If we did not need to know or understand it, why did Jesus spend so much time with them teaching what Father had told Jesus to teach? Why was there a need for Jesus to teach about the Comforter, or that the Comforter would be the one who would lead them/us to All Truth? Why were the Apostles not yet able to reveal and teach what Jesus had taught them? Was this information only necessary for the Apostles to understand? Is God being a respecter of persons by revealing to them more Truth than He will to the rest of us?

And where have I once spoken about the services which LDS provide one another? These services are a way for us to help take care of one another. However, they do NOT represent the spiritual Truth which the Apostles were not yet able to teach the members of the church. Nor do they represent the spiritual parts of Truth which the Holy Spirit will teach your spirit until He has lead you to All Truth.

You are quite allowed by God to freely choose what you want to believe. However, what you want to believe versus what makes up All Truth which the Holy Ghost will lead you to are two completely different issues UNLESS it is the Holy Ghost who has personally revealed to you that you don't need to understand any more than you already do. If that is the case, which I believe it is since you are still here and have not been translated and ascended into Heaven to become one with God, then God sees that you are not yet able to handle any more Truth. Otherwise, you would be earnestly continuing to seek more and more Truth.

At some point, your spirit WILL receive All Truth. If you do not receive it in this incarnation, then you will in future incarnation(s) until your spirit HAS been awakened completely and thus has been born of the Spirit.

I have offered to you at least parts of what have been revealed to me - thus doing exactly what Paul taught - for the edification of the members and the benefit of the church. However, I can only share what has been revealed; I cannot force you to believe it. If you are not yet ready to receive it, then you will not have the ears to hear it. You are content where you are; which is right where you need to be for now.

Blessings,

jo

[_gdemetz]

Good post JO! Those types have to throw out a lot of things in order to attempt to validate some of those illogical doctrines!

[_Albion]

Jo, I think you are attributing words and thoughts to me that are really an extension of your Mormon mindset. I have attempted to answer some of these charges on another thread so will not repeat them here. Just so I am on record...I reject and have rejected all the false claims of Mormonism and its false prophet Joseph Smith. I'll stake my eternal destiny on the one who is the rock of salvation, and that rock is none but Jesus...everything else is shifting sand.

[_jo1952]

Jo, I think you are attributing words and thoughts to me that are really an extension of your Mormon mindset. I have attempted to answer some of these charges on another thread so will not repeat them here. Just so I am on record...I reject and have rejected all the false claims of Mormonism and its false prophet Joseph Smith. I'll stake my eternal destiny on the one who is the rock of salvation, and that rock is none but Jesus...everything else is shifting sand.

Albion,

You are very fixed and content with your current understandings. You are not able to see that what I have offered has nothing to do with what any religious institution has taught me. That is because it is YOU who has such an anti-LDS agenda mindset. What I have shared comes from the Truth which the Holy Spirit has revealed to me. In fact, there are many LDS who disagree with what has been revealed to me because they are still at a milk understanding. They think I am on my way to apostasy. I believe that what you have shared comes from what man has taught you, which is why you have not been able to answer my questions. You will not see that you have not answered my questions until you are ready for spiritual discernment. You are in love with the idea of God; but you do not yet know Him because you are still depending upon what others have told you about God rather than finding out for yourself. Your testimony is their testimony. Your testimony is not yet based on your own personal on-going experiencing of the Holy Spirit. When you are ready, you will progress.

God loves us all - and He is very, very patient with us.

Blessings,

jo

[_Albion]

Well, Jo, I am sorry that I don't have the superior spiritual understanding that you claim for yourself...after all I boast not in anything of myself but only in Christ who saves me. I am impressed though that you would presume to know so much about me from just a few posts on this message board but when you look down on others from such a lofty position I suppose that ability is a natural byproduct of the superior viewpoint....but then, too, personal attacks do appear to fit Mormon apologetics as I have seen them on this board. Interesting that you would accuse me of sharing "from what man has taught"...especially since you place so much trust in the words of Joseph Smith and his introduced theologies rather than the holy spirit who talks through actual scripture. You appear to claim a sincerity for yourself that you deny to others. Don't you think that a little presumptuous?

I regret that you appear to think I have not answered your questions...but from my perspective I think I have done so. In defense, if I haven't, it's because I prefer to study the original to weigh the counterfeit against it rather than to use counterfeit philosophies and theologies to verify the original. At the end of the day, I can only be true to the whispering of the HS as I hear him and by extension I can only be accountable to God rather than your presumed opinion of me. I can live with that because I know where my trust is placed.