Why Do LDS Dismiss the Greater Part of the New Testament?

[_Albion]

Jo, of course prophets of old didn't need to rely on anyone else but I am quite sure that Elijah, for istance, was fully aware of the writings of prophets lived before him. But it does beg the question: was Joseph Smith a prophet and that is a premise I reject fully and in total so that even placing him in that category is not a valid argument as I see it.

I am not suggesting reliance on worldly scholars and quite agree that the Holy Spirit is the final arbiter but it is scholarly translation in available scripture (be it NIV, KJV or any other) that we use as our focal point for meditation and study. My point was not on reliance of scholars per se but that scholars, in the case of the NIV, translated directly from the earliest known manuscripts available to them...sources closest to the source if you will. In everything I have read Joseph Smith did not do that, hence my charge of translation as a simple misnomer, but as I understand it he merely rewrote the ancient English language KJV and made additions and "corrections" as he saw fit....doing what I contend Mormonism does all the time which is adapting the Bible to fit his theology.

I would not want to second guess God, but I do have a problem believing that an an all knowing God would communicate with a modern people in an archaic language they haven't used in hundreds of years. That to me defies logic.

[_hatersinmyward]

As a helpless sinner, I have nothing to offer God except my trust and reliance on Jesus his Son. All I can do is to appeal to God's amazing grace through Jesus who has done everything necessary for my salvation. He is sufficient means there is nothing else of value that can accomplish what he has already done...nothing, no list of hoops you are required to jump through, no works, it all rests in Jesus alone. How many times must scripture plainly state "trust in the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved".....this is repeated over and over.....

Mormons theology teaches it's members to live Mormon law(Good works and more) in order to get to the temple, Which the temple is what saves in Mormonism not Jesus. Jesus Is apart of their salvation but Garments, Temple Marriage, Word of Wisdom, Tithing are as well, and according to Jesus all those things(Mormon Law) are Blasphemy.

[_jo1952]

Mormons theology teaches it's members to live Mormon law(Good works and more) in order to get to the temple, Which the temple is what saves in Mormonism not Jesus. Jesus Is apart of their salvation but Garments, Temple Marriage, Word of Wisdom, Tithing are as well, and according to Jesus all those things(Mormon Law) are Blasphemy.

If there are any LDS who believe in what you just wrote, then they have, in my opinion, become just like the Pharisees, and just like Orthodoxy which created the great apostasy.

As a member of the LDS Church, I can tell you that what you wrote does NOT agree with what I believe.

Blessings,

jo

[_hatersinmyward]

Mormons theology teaches it's members to live Mormon law(Good works and more) in order to get to the temple, Which the temple is what saves in Mormonism not Jesus. Jesus Is apart of their salvation but Garments, Temple Marriage, Word of Wisdom, Tithing are as well, and according to Jesus all those things(Mormon Law) are Blasphemy.

If there are any LDS who believe in what you just wrote, then they have, in my opinion, become just like the Pharisees, and just like Orthodoxy which created the great apostasy.

As a member of the LDS Church, I can tell you that what you wrote does NOT agree with what I believe.

What do you believe? Are you Mormon?

If you believe Mormon Doctrine correlates with Christ's teachings regarding salvation then please supply scripture. If you can't do that, then supply ancient documentation that perhaps isn't found in the Bible. Something depicting the same ancient practices Mormons today deem necessary for one's salvation would be nice.

Jesus doesn't save in Mormonism; Tithing, Fast Offerings, Temple Marriage, Garments, and the Word of Wisdom do. When you do all of that, then and only then Jesus died on the Cross for your sins.

[_jo1952]

Jo, I don't really know how many times I have to repeat this but simply put, good works, study, spiritual growth, attending church, etc., etc., are all important in the life of a believer...of course they are....but they do not save. Only faith, belief, trust in Jesus saves. Good works, all the other stuff are the signs of the saving experience that has taken place in the believer. Good works with all that it encompasses will never earn you salvation or impress God who describes all our effort as "filthy rags".

Albion,

I believe this is a gross misinterpretation of scripture!! If you will read all of chapters 63 and 64 of Isaiah, you will see that the Prophet Isaiah is speaking of the very last days when Jesus (who is the man he sees coming from Bozrah in Edom) is covered from trampling those who were in the wine press. Isaiah speaks about the blindness which was placed on the Israelites because they had sinned. They had not recognized Jesus as their Messiah when He rode into Jerusalem on the donkey. Because they were blind, they killed their own Savior. So all of their righteous acts were meaningless - as filty rags. (There are so many layers to be understood - mysteries to us until we are able to "see", at which time a mystery is no longer a mystery to us.) Isaiah is also pleading on behalf of the Israelites because they were His chosen people.

Isaiah 64:6 (KJV)

6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Isaiah is talking about how their sins have blinded them. As a result of the blindness placed upon the Jews, any righteousness they do is meaningless. Again, read also Isaiah 63. HOWEVER, when they are no longer blind, Isaiah also talks about how righteousness is observed by the Lord:

Isaiah 64:5 (KJV)

5 Thou meetest him that rejoiceth and worketh righteousness, those that remember thee in thy ways: behold, thou art wroth; for we have sinned: in those is continuance, and we shall be saved.

Remember, as well, that the Jews live under the Law of Moses. Those who do NOT know about the Law are not held to the Law. However, if their works are reflective of what the Law requires, then their works are counted as righteousness - even though they didn't know about the Law. As such, Gentiles who have never heard of or been taught the Law, have their works judged according to what was in their heart. If their works were good, then those works are counted as righteousness, even though they were blind to the Law; even though they have NOT accepted Jesus because they were blind to His existence and His Gift!! The Gentile's works are NOT filthy rags. Now, if a Gentile converts to Jesus and still sins after promising He will follow Jesus and keep His commandments, then righteous works performed without having repented of new sins, can become filthy rags because they now know better. At that point, they sin be not remembering and keeping God's commandments.

Therefore all of this talk about works being filthy rags, or that we are wretched creatures is all nonsense - it is man twisting Scripture and teaching as doctrine the commandments of men.

The saved sinner who died thirty seconds after being saves is no less saved than the saved individual who has spent a lifetime in study and keeping the law. he may have more knowledge gain in a life experience but he is no more saved. "...God will credit righteousness for us who believe..." and "... now a righteousness from God, apart from law (small l so not specifically The Law) has been made known...." Any righteousness we acquire is received from God, imputed to us because of our faith in Jesus his Son. As a helpless sinner, I have nothing to offer God except my trust and reliance on Jesus his Son. All I can do is to appeal to God's amazing grace through Jesus who has done everything necessary for my salvation. He is sufficient means there is nothing else of value that can accomplish what he has already done...nothing, no list of hoops you are required to jump through, no works, it all rests in Jesus alone. How many times must scripture plainly state "trust in the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved".....this is repeated over and over.....

And the message is misinterpreted over and over. YES it is through Christ's Atonement that we are able to be saved. We must believe and accept the Gift He provided. We are not being forced to accept this Gift. There is more to it!

Let us look at what we are taught about Enoch:

Genesis 5:21-24 (KJV)

21 And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah:

22 And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:

23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:

24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

Enoch knew God and walked with Him for 300 years before God translated him. It took Enoch 300 years of walking WITH God before Enoch saw the Kingdom of God. Now let's consider what Jesus taught:

John 3:3-5 (KJV)

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Do you think Enoch knew he was walking with God? I say yes. Do you think it took Enoch 300 years before he would believe? I say no. Enoch knew and believed and walked with God for 300 years before he was taken by God and saw the Kingdom of God. And Jesus said: Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Now, unless Jesus was lying, it took Enoch 300 years to be able to see the Kingdom of God. In other words, it took Enoch 300 years to "be born again"; a.k.a., to be Born of the Spirit. Being Born of the Spirit is a journey - it is not something that takes place instantly at the moment someone accepts Christ. This does NOT contradict that it is due to Christ's Atonement that we are saved!!!!!

What is missing from your interpretation is the progression that MUST take place; i.e., the being Born of the Spirit. That journey of eventually being able to receive ALL TRUTH has to be completed before a person's spirit can see the Kingdom of God. When a person sees the Kingdom of God, they are One with God.

I have tried, perhaps not well, to convey the Christian position which Mormons so often mischaracterize in their attacks on it. You can accept or reject it because God gave us the wonderful principle of free choice but never doubt that you have been a recipient of God's prevenient grace and you will never know full satisfaction in faith and life outside the reality that Jesus paid it all.

Albion, you can also reject what I am trying to teach, as well. Your interpretation does not incorporate all of scripture. When I present just a few passages and compare it to what you believe, we can see that even these very few passages conflict with your interpretation which you have learned from man. Even if you continue to reject it during this life, you will be given other incarnations until you have received All Truth and become One with Father and with Jesus. Yes, a person can accept Jesus in the very last seconds of this life; but they have not yet received All Truth. Their spirit has not yet been Born of the Spirit. Even for a righteous man, it takes a long time - just like it did for Enoch.

Now, let's look at Paul. Do you think that while he was still known as Saul, that he had faith in Christ? I will leave you with this question for now; and will get back to you after you have given me your response.

Blessings,

jo

[_jo1952]

What do you believe? Are you Mormon?

If you believe Mormon Doctrine correlates with Christ's teachings regarding salvation then please supply scripture. If you can't do that, then supply ancient documentation that perhaps isn't found in the Bible. Something depicting the same ancient practices Mormons today deem necessary for one's salvation would be nice.

Jesus doesn't save in Mormonism; Tithing, Fast Offerings, Temple Marriage, Garments, and the Word of Wisdom do. When you do all of that, then and only then Jesus died on the Cross for your sins.

Yes, I am LDS. Your interpretation of what the LDS Church teaches is so far off, that I would offer you look up my posts and read them. It would take pages and pages of reiterating what I have already recorded in order to address your questions. If you were ever LDS, then you never understood their theology.

Blessings,

jo

[_hatersinmyward]

Yes, I am LDS. Your interpretation of what the LDS Church teaches is so far off, that I would offer you look up my posts and read them. It would take pages and pages of reiterating what I have already recorded in order to address your questions. If you were ever LDS, then you never understood their theology.

So you aren't going to reference a single source on this thread?

If you can supply a single source dated prior 300Ad. I'll accept your source as having a Christian origin, just for sake of debate(Masonry Excluded)

[_jo1952]

So you aren't going to reference a single source on this thread?

If you can supply a single source dated prior 300Ad. I'll accept your source as having a Christian origin, just for sake of debate(Masonry Excluded)

What good would it do? You can still look up my posts if you really want to. Ultimately, however, no matter how many references I use to present support for what I believe, it is God who reveals all spiritual Truth through the Holy Spirit. Do not seek for Truth from man. He may be able to speak Truth to you; but you will not recognize it until the Holy Spirit reveals it to your spirit. Man can also speak falsehoods to you. Again, you will not recognize falsehoods without the help of the Holy Spirit. In order to be prepared you need to be seeking God's assistance and guidance; not mine.

Blessings,

jo

[_hatersinmyward]

What good would it do?

Well... First of all turn to God. If you aren't satisfied look to the Word. If you don't find it there look toward the Natural Order.

[_gdemetz]

Albion, I think you may set a record on this site for getting things wrong! The 15th chapter of 1 Corinthians is definitely talking about the GLORY of the resurrected body! Our mortal bodies have no glory! It specifically states that there is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another of the stars! It even goes on to say that as each star differs from another in glory SO ALSO IS THE RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD! You evangelical definitely have a big reading comprehension issue when it comes to the Bible!!!!!!!

You are also absolutely wrong again when you state that works do not save one! Christ stated specifically; "IF THOU WILT ENTER INTO LIFE, KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS." HE DID NOT STATE; IF THOU WILT ENTER INTO LIFE, JUST WALK DOWN THIS HERE ILSE AND MAKE A PERFESSION OF FAITH!!!!!!!