Did we have a pre-premortal existence?

[_LittleNipper]

Albion, you still can't seem to understand what we believe can you?! When we say "one God," we mean Godhead! Can you understand that?

And the Godhead is comprised of Three individuals and that is a Trinity. And that is all the God there is or that ever existed. There are none other.

[_Albion]

I was under the assumption that were were talking about the Christian God and thus my comment was with reference to that. Those who claim a belief on the God of Christianity are a minority of the world's almost 7 billion people. Within that context my comments stands.

Jo, I have no idea what you are talking about with regard to duplicate posts and such. That said, you do have an amazing ability to go off on lengthy posts which have nothing to do with the topic at hand and in the process make some pretty wild personal assumptions about me.

[_Albion]

Gdemetz, I know what you believe and as I've stated previously I do admit that I have never heard a Mormon until you who claims that Godheadis synonymous with a single God. My experience is that when Mormons reference the term Godhead they are talking about the three separate gods that make it up. See, you have taught me something new. I don't agree with your viewpoint either way but it is something new to me. I do suspect, however, that if I were to stand in the Mormon church's new shopping mall in SLC and poll passing Mormons on a definition of the word Godhead, I think I would be hard pressed to find many that would say it means one god. But, as I said...I can always learn something new.

[_jo1952]

I was under the assumption that were were talking about the Christian God and thus my comment was with reference to that. Those who claim a belief on the God of Christianity are a minority of the world's almost 7 billion people. Within that context my comments stands.

Jo, I have no idea what you are talking about with regard to duplicate posts and such. That said, you do have an amazing ability to go off on lengthy posts which have nothing to do with the topic at hand and in the process make some pretty wild personal assumptions about me.

Albion,

You will find that your post which you made yesterday at 4:05 pm posted twice. But you missed it even though I told you that you had a duplicate post. In the same way, you have missed the points I was making. The reason I went to the trouble of presenting God's continuing communication with ALL of mankind on the earth was to show that He, indeed, is NOT a respecter of person's. In other words, the Bible is the Holy record of only a small portion of His dealings with His children. His other children have their own Holy records; they just have not called their record the same name as "Bible". Likewise, according to their own tradition, they call God by other names. Yet He is the same God. Good grief - Pagans know there must be a God or God(s); through the ages, they have forgotten who God is. They still want to worship Him; they just do so in error by building images and worshiping them. Their desire is still there, and their diligence and faithfulness in being true to their own beliefs, as well as their good works, will be counted as righteousness by God.

When you talk about the "Christian" God, you are overlooking the fact that He is the same God for ALL of mankind. Remember how surprised the Apostles were to learn that they were to also go to the Gentiles to preach the Gospel? They thought that God belonged to only them; just like you now think God belongs only to Christians.

Do you not see that this idea of yours is putting God into your own man-made box??? You are making Him into something He is not! He is NOT a respecter of persons. If you will allow your mind to be opened, you will be able to "see" so much more than you now see.

Also, your comments (as do Mitten's and way too many other posters) scream out how you believe that being a "Christian" makes YOU better than other people. In fact, you have usurped God's power and authority by condemning ALL those who do not agree with your beliefs about God, to eternal damnation (which by your standard of belief, places a person into a pit of fire where they will burn eternally...nice....). You tell me that I am boastful when I share what the Holy Spirit has taught me. But I give credit to God; like Paul, I am not boasting of myself. However, YOU are doing exactly what Paul warned "Christians" NOT to do. You have raised yourself above ALL of the rest of mankind just because YOU are a "Christian".

Do you understand that when Paul was still known as Saul, that he was serving the "Christian" God??!!! You, and much of Christendom have become like Saul. You are persecuting ALL other peoples of ALL other religions who believe in God. The peoples of ALL of the other religions who believe in God have now become the "Christians" who were being persecuted by Saul.

I don't why I am bothering to even try to explain this to you. However, the Holy Spirit is pressing me to write this. If you don't "get this", maybe some other readers will.

Blessings,

jo

[_Albion]

Jo, now you really are stretching the point. I defy you to find any post on this board where I have said that as a Christian I am better than anyone else. Repeatedly I have explained the principle of grace which is the foundation of Christian belief which is: God's favor we DO NOT DESERVE. I have repeated often that I have nothing in which to boast except in Christ Jesus...that I am merely a sinner saved by grace. I reject your characterization and suggest you spend more time on your own personal walk than offering yourself as an expert on mine. I'll leave the personal attacks to you but I make no apologies in proclaiming that no one comes to the Father except through Jesus and if God has a plan for those currently outside the umbrella of his Word in the Bible I will welcome it...he will reveal it in his time but I believe those people will only find him through the method prescribed in his word as it is written. If that doesn't fit your seemingly eclectic view of Christianity, so be it. Christianity has always been a confrontational faith and uncompromising also so I make no apologies their either. There is only one avenue to God...his Son Jesus Christ.

[_gdemetz]

Albion, you are wrong again! God would not be just if He gave someone something he did not deserve! You are also ignoring the fact that Christ sted that for one to be saved he needed to KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS, and then he would be deserving through his efforts AND THE GRACE OF Christ!

Also, you guys are not being honest in your portrayal of the false apostate doctrine of the trinity which Wikipedia correctly defines as a "MYSTERY" of Christianity in which Three Gods are all one being! And, I will add, a stupid illogical mystery {Babylon} at that since why would one being pray to himself!

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine...and shall be turned unto {man made} fables."

[_Albion]

gdemetz, you are absolutely right...God does not give anyone anything they don't deserve. I have no problem with that premise. It is because we are sinful that we don't deserve anything from God but God in his mercy extends his wonderful grace to us to give us the salvation that we absolutely don't deserve. "While we were yet sinners Christ died for us." He died and paid the price of our sin in full before we do anything else...while we were still in our sin...he didn't wait while we tried to become righteous...he died to give us righteousness...his righteousness as a free gift. Of course keeping his commandments is necessary, of course works are a vital part of the Christian life but as Paul said: "When a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation." There is no way you can make God obligated to you not even by your works and good intentions. "But now a righteousness FROM God, apart from law (works) has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteounsness FROM God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference. For all (every single person born into this world) have sinned and fall short of the glory of God , and are justified (made right in the eyes of God. Corny but... just as if they had never sinned) freely (fully and completely) by HIS grace through the redemption that CAME by Christ Jesus." Romans3:21-24 Note that past tense use of the word CAME...it has happened, it is done, it is complete. Jesus has paid fully the price of sin...it is in the bank.... all you have to do is claim it and allow the indwelling spirit to direct your life from that point on.

I think the biggest stumbling block for people coming to Jesus is the idea that fills their heads that it just can't be that simple. Well, it is and that's the reason that God's grace is so utterly amazing. A loving, gracious God is willing to count the unrighteous as righteous just because they placed their faith in the life, death, atonement and resurrection of his Son. Freed from the burden of guilt and the fear of holy judgement the believer is made free to serve God fully and out of the gratitude they have for what he has done. To him only be the glory.

[_jo1952]

Jo, now you really are stretching the point. I defy you to find any post on this board where I have said that as a Christian I am better than anyone else. Repeatedly I have explained the principle of grace which is the foundation of Christian belief which is: God's favor we DO NOT DESERVE. I have repeated often that I have nothing in which to boast except in Christ Jesus...that I am merely a sinner saved by grace. I reject your characterization and suggest you spend more time on your own personal walk than offering yourself as an expert on mine. I'll leave the personal attacks to you but I make no apologies in proclaiming that no one comes to the Father except through Jesus and if God has a plan for those currently outside the umbrella of his Word in the Bible I will welcome it...he will reveal it in his time but I believe those people will only find him through the method prescribed in his word as it is written. If that doesn't fit your seemingly eclectic view of Christianity, so be it. Christianity has always been a confrontational faith and uncompromising also so I make no apologies their either. There is only one avenue to God...his Son Jesus Christ.

I didn't think you would understand. You are not able to see the contradiction in your own words. Meh, we are all blind to what we cannot yet see.

I would nevertheless like to share something else. This is a solution to a mystery you aren't even aware is a mystery because you are currently blind to it. However, you mentioned the phrase. Even though you do not understand its full meaning, I am going to discuss it.

When we are taught that "no one comes to the Father except through Jesus", remember these other teachings. One is that those who do not live under the law will not be judged by the law; they will be saved by their works. Secondly, we also are taught that if we accept Christ we are saved. Do you see? Christ's Atonement has provided the way for salvation of ALL souls; regardless of whether or not they even know who He is while they are living in a body of flesh! THIS is how it is that "no one comes to the Father except through Christ"!!

Christ's Atonement has made salvation available for ALL of God's children. Atheists, agnostics, believers in Christ, nonbelievers in Christ, believers in God who don't know who Christ is (regardless of their "religion") will ALL obtain the benefit of Christ's Atonement. Christ is not the Savior of just those who are known as "Christians". Christ is the Savior of ALL of mankind who come to the earth. Christ is the doorway back into God's presence. If He wasn't there, NO ONE would be able to get to God because there would be no door to go through; thus, "no one comes to the Father except through Christ".

Blessings,

jo

[_gdemetz]

Albion, you keep ignoring Christ's words and substituting false evangelical teachings! Other than being resurrected, Christ's grace only applies to those who repent and keep the commandments! "If thou wilt enter into life, KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS."

[_Albion]

Jo, why do you continue to express what you think I believe based on false assumptions. Of course Christ died for everyone, of course his salvation is available to everyone...every single person who has lived on this planet past, present and future. Absolutely, totally, unquestionably, indisputably, without exception, in total, black, white, pink, blue, green and any shade in between! They will however never realize that atonement that has taken place for them without Jesus being central to the equation. I don't know how God will deal with those who have never heard the gospel ( fewer and fewer in this modern world but many more in the past and I certainly reject the Mormon idea of baptism for the dead) but I believe and trust that he is a just God who will condemn no one in their ignorance.

When I began responding to you I was under the impression I was talking to what might be termed a regular, true blue down the line Mormon. Your belief system seems to me to be all over the place incorporating by your own admission Kabbahla, elements of gnosticism, universalism, and various other elements that I can't quite come to grips with. I suspect it will one day take you out of the Mormon Church because they are not very tolerant of views that don't fit the mould...at least if you express them to others. I suppose if it works for you go for it...I prefer to stay with the Bible as it is traditionally understood...an understanding that I have arrived at not without pain and personal sacrifice but with the reading of God's word...prayerfully done for illumination by the Spirit. I found God's message for my life alone and through his word...affiliation with a church was and is secondary to that. It is a joyous journey and I would have it no other way.