gdemetz wrote:Drifting, check out "Out-of-Body experiences and Lucid dreams."
No.
You stated that an out of body experience is when the spirit leaves the body. You need to provide the references and studies and evidence to support your statement.
Come on.
Hello Drifting,
The spirit leaving the body is a very logical assumption to explain the phenomena of astral projection. With regards to proof of the phenomena, there seems to be a similar observation in OOBE's of a rope/snake extending from the astral body to the human body. This observation cuts across all cultures and has been around for a very long time. Solomon made a reference to it, (I don't have my Bible on this computer), when he said when the golden cord is broken the individual dies (not in those exact words).
gdemetz wrote:Drifting, check out "Out-of-Body experiences and Lucid dreams."
No.
You stated that an out of body experience is when the spirit leaves the body. You need to provide the references and studies and evidence to support your statement.
Come on.
He doesn't know the meaning of this word. He can not use the features of the forum.
Matthew 5:3 wrote:Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
as far as I know I cited it, because LittleNipper will reach the New Testament only in 2080...
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco - To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
The spirit leaving the body is a very logical assumption to explain the phenomena of astral projection. With regards to proof of the phenomena, there seems to be a similar observation in OOBE's of a rope/snake extending from the astral body to the human body. This observation cuts across all cultures and has been around for a very long time. Solomon made a reference to it, (I don't have my Bible on this computer), when he said when the golden cord is broken the individual dies (not in those exact words).
Thanks sleepy, although I don't agree with the phrase 'a very logical assumption'.
Astral projection (or astral travel) is an interpretation of out-of-body experience (OBE) that assumes the existence of an "astral body" separate from the physical body and capable of traveling outside it.[1] Astral projection or travel denotes the astral body leaving the physical body to travel in the astral plane.
A more logical assumption would be: The mind playing tricks. Or a vivid dream. Or self delusion. Or a made up story for effect or for dealing with something (as in the case of Dr Neal).
Of course that is just my opinion. And it seems the evidence for OOBE's and NDE's is pure opinion too.
Show me the science...
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
gdemetz wrote:You are absolutely correct Sleepy! That is definitely by far the most logical assumption in view of all the case histories!
Not at all. The most logical explanation for the tales told by the absolute minority of people who are near death yet recover, is that they are delusional in either the experience or the remembering.
You just want to cherry pick the cases of people who have been near death, recovered who then claim an out of body experience. Logic would suggest that you should take all people who have been near death, compare what percentage claim an out of body experience, then on the basis of probability decide if it is likely that the experience was 'real' inasmuch that a spirit actually left a physical body for a while.
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
It would be logical to assume that in order for the OOBE to happen something has to happen with regards to the individual in order to trigger the OOBE. If we agree that not all of those individuals are lying, then it remains to determine what triggers it. To discount all OOBE's because the same experience didn't happen to everyone would be illogical unless we know specifically what creates the OOBE. It also happens to people who are not near death, therefore, being near death can't be considered the sole contributing factor.
It would be logical to assume that in order for the OOBE to happen something has to happen with regards to the individual in order to trigger the OOBE. If we agree that not all of those individuals are lying, then it remains to determine what triggers it. To discount all OOBE's because the same experience didn't happen to everyone would be illogical unless we know specifically what creates the OOBE. It also happens to people who are not near death, therefore, being near death can't be considered the sole contributing factor.
The accepted explanation for the OBE in the fields of cognitive science and psychology is that the OBE is a hallucinatory construct that arises from different psychological factors. wiki
Wiki goes on to list studies etc.
This explanation of oobe's etc seems to me to be the simplest.
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
>>>This explanation of oobe's etc seems to me to be the simplest.<<<
While it may be the simplest in order for a theory to have legitimacy (in this case that they are hallucinations), it needs to conform to what we know. If a large number of OOBE's involve seeing a rope attached from what I'll call the spirit body, and this description has lasted for thousands of years, is it logical for a halucination to produce this rope? I don't think so.
>>>This explanation of oobe's etc seems to me to be the simplest.<<<
While it may be the simplest in order for a theory to have legitimacy (in this case that they are hallucinations), it needs to conform to what we know. If a large number of OOBE's involve seeing a rope attached from what I'll call the spirit body, and this description has lasted for thousands of years, is it logical for a halucination to produce this rope? I don't think so.
CFR please.
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
