Dispensations make me ponder

[_jo1952]

In all my years teaching in and attending orthodox Christian churches I cannot recall a single time the word dispensation has been used. As the opening post of this thread confirms, to me at least, Mormons seem to spend a great deal of time speculating and theorizing on issues that are without Biblical confirmation.

Hi Albion!

One of the things which left me empty when I was a member of the Lutheran church, was my Paster telling me that I should accept only what he was teaching me about God. Yet I had been asking the questions of a 13 year old who believed that God could do more than we could ever imagine; and that He was NOT a God who wouldn't give answers to sincere questions. After all, He wants us to know Him. How can we get to know Him if we limit ourselves to what we will allow ourselves to believe about Him?

Once again, I will use Jesus as my source in responding to you. Jesus only taught us what Father wanted Him to teach us. He did not teach us everything He knew because the Apostles were not yet ready to bear it. Also, the Apostles had been taught things they were not allowed to teach others. Paul would not teach the Corinthians anything beyond a milk understanding because they were not yet ready to bear it. So, we have all of that information which was never revealed by either Jesus or the Apostles. Also, we don't have a record of everything Jesus did while He was on the earth:

John 21:25 (KJV)

And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

In other words, the Bible is NOT a complete record of what either Jesus taught or what He did. Neither is it a complete record of what the Apostles had been taught.

I have no fear in seeking more Truth from the Holy Spirit. In reading and studying the Scriptures, and in thoughtful, sincere prayer, I allow my mind to ponder and/or just to be "still". This gives God a chance to respond to me. "Be still and know that I am God" (from Psa 36:10). Whatever Truth He reveals to me through the Holy Spirit, is NOT something I need to run to man to verify. The Holy Spirit will influence us and our thoughts so that we can be directed by Him.

In loving God, it is only natural for me to seek His wisdom and ask question after question. I WANT TO KNOW!!! And no man has the right or the authority or the power to stop my asking questions. I will not allow the thoughts or precepts or world view of another individual to place God inside of a box they have constructed.

God is so much more than we think He is; likewise the Kingdom of God and how everythings "works" and what it all "looks" like is immeasurable to the human mind. The more we progress in each probation, the better.

Blessings,

jo

[_Franktalk]

Mittens,

I agree with your division of the Statue in the dream. When Christ returns it will start another period. We really don't have scripture which tells us a lot of detail going into the eternities. I guess we will just have to find out when we get there.

[_Albion]

What I brought to the discussion, Franktalk, were a couple of personal observations but apparently you know more about those than I do.

[_Albion]

Jo, personally I would be wary of any pastor who would seem to suggest that only his understanding is the correct one. Everything anyone says should be verified by the Bible. Obviously it would be foolish to compare our understanding and knowledge with that of the Almighty but as I have said before I believe that all knowledge, all truth necessary for the salvation of mankind is contained in God's word, the Bible. There is nothing you can say or submit that will convince me that Mormon additions have any veracity when weighed against that Word. My experience of the Holy Spirit is a very firm conviction that Mormonism is false.

[_jo1952]

In all my years teaching in and attending orthodox Christian churches I cannot recall a single time the word dispensation has been used. As the opening post of this thread confirms, to me at least, Mormons seem to spend a great deal of time speculating and theorizing on issues that are without Biblical confirmation.

Hi Albion,

I forgot to put in my other post that in the KJV of the Bible, the word "dispensation" shows up four times in the New Testament:

1 Cor 9:17
Eph 1:10
Eph 3:2
Col 1:25

Blessings,

jo

[_jo1952]

Jo, personally I would be wary of any pastor who would seem to suggest that only his understanding is the correct one. Everything anyone says should be verified by the Bible. Obviously it would be foolish to compare our understanding and knowledge with that of the Almighty but as I have said before I believe that all knowledge, all truth necessary for the salvation of mankind is contained in God's word, the Bible. There is nothing you can say or submit that will convince me that Mormon additions have any veracity when weighed against that Word. My experience of the Holy Spirit is a very firm conviction that Mormonism is false.

Hi Albion,

That was 47 years ago (okay...do the math....I'm officially old). My Lutheran Pastor was not the only one who couldn't or wouldn't answer my questions. What he and other denominations taught did not agree with what the Bible taught me personally. Of course, back then, I didn't understand how that could be.

Whenever Truth is revealed to me, it expands upon what is taught in the Bible; it doesn't change what is taught in the Bible.

I so much enjoy the progression of Truth being revealed to me through the Holy Spirit, that I could not conceive giving it up to settle for only what is in the Bible. However, the Holy Spirit does continue to reveal layers of Truth which are hidden in the Bible itself. Having more Truth revealed allows me to "see" that much more. If I were to close my mind and restrict myself to the beliefs and interpretations of man, I would be closing the door to my own personal progression and ability to receive more Truth. I don't want just some of the Truth; I want All Truth.

Blessings,

jo

[_Franktalk]

What I brought to the discussion, Franktalk, were a couple of personal observations but apparently you know more about those than I do.

Wow, you made general statements and now you wish to walk that back and blame me for the walk back.

Do you have anything to say about dispensations besides arguing over definitions and the like? You know something of substance.

[_Franktalk]

How one separates the Bible into ages or dispensations is not my concern. I am sure there are many ways to group sections of history or events that will make some kind of logical sense. That thinking process is not important to me. What is important is at these divides can we see details from the start and end of one dispensation that will lead us to clues about another. I think there is a valid argument that the language or descriptions from one area can be applied to another. Since I believe in the pattern nature of scripture I see patterns that repeat at the major boundaries between dispensations. So when the flood was over the earth is described as perished so a new earth was born of water. We read that before the flood it did not rain and rainbows did not exist. From God's perspective in scripture this made a new earth. The wiping out of the Nephilim and reducing the population to eight was a reset so things could start anew. But these are just some physical characteristics of the new earth. We still have Satan with his influence. Fallen angels and demons could still influence man as well. It does seem to me that before the flood evil could manifest easier than after. And then around the time of Christ evil and good had very limited ability to manifest on the earth. But then during the end time tribulation we see evil and good manifest again. These appear as cycles and the turning on and off of spiritual powers must represent some kind of great plan. With all of these clues I have to believe they are given to us for a reason. So what ideas can we make that would bring additional understanding of scripture from these patterns?

[_subgenius]

In all my years teaching in and attending orthodox Christian churches I cannot recall a single time the word dispensation has been used. As the opening post of this thread confirms, to me at least, Mormons seem to spend a great deal of time speculating and theorizing on issues that are without Biblical confirmation.

to be fair, and to keep you informed, LDS theology considers "dispensation" as defined by the presence/absence of the priesthood on earth.

The evangelical problem, once again, is that they have somehow discounted the scriptures and formulated a new theory. One can see the evangelical disregard for any cause of dispensation by claiming a sort of "New Covenant Trump's all" position. However, there is no scriptural support for one to consider the 10 commandments to have been repealed (Mosaic Law being specifically replaced by Law of Christ). The lone scripture Romans 1:2 is not a convincing, nor conclusive, argument that the Gospel was not present in the Old Testament (as preached to Abraham). This idea that moral law has no place because "faith alone" is the cause of salvation is a hard argument to make with scriptural support.
This is a strong argument, amongst others, that the Antinomianism found in evangelical/orthodox theology is, in fact, heresy.

Many evangelicals on this forum will find that their arguments, so far, have aligned themselves with one of the following "heretical" positions:
1. salvation as for the soul only, and bodily behavior as irrelevant both to God’s interest and the soul’s health.
2. One need only trust in the Holy Spirit’s inward prompting. One must deny any need to be taught by the law how to live. Freedom from the law as a way of salvation equates to a freedom from the law as a guide to conduct.
3. argues that God sees no sin in believers, because they are in Christ, who kept the law for them, and therefore what they actually do makes no difference, provided that they simply "believe".
4. Biblical law is God’s direct command and affirms that the Bible’s imperative statements trigger the Word of the Spirit, which when it comes may or may not correspond exactly to what is written.
5. Motive and intention of love is all that God now requires of Christians, and the c10 commandments or other ethical scripture, are merely rules of thumb for loving, rules that love may at times disregard.

Ultimately one should conclude that this above described evangelical position is a position that erodes the true church and serves simply to make theology more palatable to the temporal man.

[_Franktalk]

I would argue that the priesthood has always been on the earth in one form or another. The Gospel has always been available for those who seek.

The Law is fulfilled by the two top commandments. They have been around since the beginning so anyone who says we don't have to follow them is just nuts.

Now there is a church period and a restored church period. But my intent is to ponder the boundaries. It is true that God does not change. But times and seasons do happen on the earth. I think we are to see them.