Adam, first man circa 4,000 bc....?

[_LittleNipper]

The glaciers arrived after the Flood. The Uniformitarian scientists may believe the glaciers have been around forever, but they sure seem to be melting a lot faster then anyone ever imagined --- are they not? Could be they miscalculated?

In reference to the glaciers I suggest you do a little study of JD Hays or Shackleton or Berger and their ice cores. Ice cores drilled in Greenland, recovered, then painstakingly counted, every single layer, cores that are over 3000 meters long (that's 10,000 feet of ice!) show a record of ice formation that is more than 100,000!!! years old. The ice layers can be counted just like core samples from trees and the growth rings add up in a similar fashion.

Each year of snow gets compacted over time and each year then becomes a layer that displays the periods of snow during the cold months and lack of snow or even melting during the warm months. The record is not open to conjecture, it just is. Each year of snow is a new layer. Each layer contains trapped pollen particles, trapped CO2, dirt and dust. And each layer can be counted.

The deepest ice core has over 800,000 layers! That's 800,000 years! Try and find one of your "experts" on the age of the earth that can explain away 800,000 ice layers. Oh, and by the way, the ice cores show NO global flood. Not anywhere in the 800,000 (That's eight hundred thousand....count them....800,000 layers)

There can certainly be multiple layers of freezing under various climatic changes. The issue is that Uniformitarian scientists apply what they witness today to what they see. They cannot imagine an earth in upheaval (climatic and geologic) both during and post Flood, because they reject the Flood --- such goes against their training.

[_subgenius]

As far as I can tell, Subgenius copied and pasted his wall of gibberish and junk "science" in favor of the Flood from the following website:
http://unmaskingevolution.com/18-flood.htm

again we see your fallacy
finding a source does not negate the evidence as it is presented. In lieu of an actual rebuttal you would attack the messenger not the message. Your posting here does not do anything beyond inflate your ego's ability to operate Google search.

It's always interesting to me how often Creationists conflate evolution with non-biology-specific disciplines like geology, physics, and whatnot. Anyhow, as for the list, there are just way too many claims for me in my spare time here to go through line by line. Suffice it to say that the entire list is a mishmash of non-sequiturs, misrepresentations of fact, and simple outright absurdity. [edit: in fact I ended up commenting on the majority of his claims - silly me]

you comment, but you do not refute...you offer no evidence, you simply deny the obvious and supported conclusion. All the while, once again, not offering any "evidence" for your own claims (because no evidence exists for your claim...absolutely no evidence at all can be offered by you to prove that the flood never happened - that is the proverbial bottom line)
Evidence was asked for, it was given - and as you strain the gnats, everyone else looks upon your efforts with pity...all you have is what i have given you here, all you can ever do is "react"...like a true bottom feeder you can only lay silent in hopes that something will float by which you can lunge at in a desperate attempt to consume and make for yourself.

If we look at the body of evidence as it now stands, the Earth simply doesn't look like it ever went through a Flood of Noah. Instead, it looks about how geology textbooks describe it today.

Prove this "body of evidence" - you simply claiming it is not sufficient - provide evidence
Geology textbooks are to be your superlative source...should we examine all of them through the years and through cultures or did you just want to specifically allow the ones that support the way you "think things are"?

You apparently would like to believe that this is because the geology textbooks are part of some global scientific cabal formed up to oppose God by faking a natural history of Earth that masks all the great things we know really happened because they show up in the Bible.

prove this claim with evidence or concede that you rely on speculation and conjecture and other things that "just make sense to me".

This is all nonsense. Aside from the very fact that you cannot get millions of different scientists from all around the world to be part of such a giant conspiracy and yet keep utterly silent about it, the evidence simply describes a world whose natural history is simply other than what follows from the Bible. I'm sorry, but that's just the way it is.

huh? the only one talking about a "cabal" is you, but you refuted your claim quite well...good job having that little arguement with yourself.

So you claim that science can offer no proof that Noah's Flood didn't happen a few thousand years ago. I pointed out already that the Australian Aborigines have had a continuous presence on that continent going back to 40,000-50,000 years ago, and that this is supported by mountains of evidence.

saying there is evidence and providing that evidence are two different things...please, link evidence (not link to theory, but to actual "proof" since you claim there is proof)

This alone contradicts the Flood narrative that all current human populations descend from the survivors who disembarked from the Ark after a grueling yearlong sail in a ship filling with untold thousands of hungry, s******g animals just 4,000 or 5.000 years ago. And that's just one contradictory fact out of an entire world filled with such.

contradiction does not prove anything. The contradiction can easily be used to argue that your "evidence" is flawed. Since we have not seen your evidence one can easily assume that the account as described in the Bible is more accurate and that this alleged contradiction simply illuminates the flaw in your position.

God science? Is that Creationist code for magic?

change your bong water.

All over the world societies have grown up around rivers, lakes, and oceans. These are liable to flood from time to time. With thousands of years of oral history and legend amongst many of these populations, it shouldn't surprise anyone that stories including floods are fairly common. How many catastrophic floods in an area have to take place over thousands of years to leave a mark in a peoples' collective history?

again, interesting "hypothesis" but science requires evidence. Do you have any evidence that what you are describing here is actually what happened?
As you say "it wouldn't surprise anyone"...i am assuming that "it" is evidence?...otherwise you are just relying on speculation.... because after all, it also would not "surprise anyone" if an actual global flood was the source of all these "global flood" stories.

Yes, read a book like Guns, Germs, and Steel for some good ideas why the Fertile Crescent "took off" so early compared to other populations. *SPOILER ALERT* It wasn't the Flood of Noah.

ummm...awkward...that book, as being held up as definitive proof, has already been refuted by me...quite effectively....unless, like my evidence you are using it to support some conclusion? but it seems like you are using the book to support the claims that the book is making....hmmm...that's good irony right there!

CFR. By the way, fame and fortune would await the scientist who could actually demonstrate legitimate human fossils in Cambrian or other strata prior to the rise of the hominids. If you've got the proof, you're sitting on a gold mind. Go out and publish that stuff dude!

"On sites reaching from Virginia and Pennsylvania, through Kentucky, Illinois, Missouri and westward toward the Rocky Mountains, prints, from 5 to 10 inches long, have been found on the surface of exposed rocks, and more and more keep turning up as the years go by."-*Albert C. lngalls, "The Carboniferous Mystery," in Scientific America, January 1940, p. 14.
Human tracks from Laetoli in East Africa -April 1979 issue of National Geographic and the February 9, 1980, issue of Science News

This is just complete and utter b***s***. Seriously dude. You mean, no earlier human artifacts have ever been found, except the billions and billions of artifacts from earlier than 4000-5000 years ago that have been found. The earliest proto-writing was something like 8,000 years ago. Stone tools, knives, spearpoints, arrowheads, etc. go back tens of thousands of years. The earliest proto-civilizations go back over 10,000 years ago, and have yielded artifacts and dwelling structures and whatnot.

here is a great example of your limited knowledge and broad reaching assumptions....you seemingly know little about the Oldowan tools which are allegedly from 2.6 million years ago - let alone the Acheulean tools, which just ultimately means you are not yet capable nor prepared to debate this topic from even a fundamental position.

I'm not even sure of exactly what it is this is claiming, but I'd like to point out that life abhors a vacuum, and so we should expect that at all times throughout Earth's development since life came about, life will come to utilize all of the available space, soil, water, etc. that is suitable for life. This may change as the climate changes, but it would make sense for their to be about as much life on Earth today as there was at any other time in Earth's history where the climatic conditions were similar. But again, I'm not sure what this claim is even saying.

Wha? I don't think Aristotle had whatever you are talking about in mind when he coined that phrase (and it is "nature" not "life").
I am beging to enjoy your persistent use of "it just makes sense" as a rebuttal...if you say it enough maybe some actual evidence will appear to support your subjective reality?

I hope this doesn't blow your mind too much, but there wasn't a first man. I mean that, literally. There was no first homo sapiens.

prove this claim, you have no proof....literally, prove there was never a "first man".

If that didn't blow your mind, check this one out:

you blow...just not minds (and to be honest its more of just a sucking..weird...but you are actually doing both)

Every child is of the same species as its parents. And yet, take enough parent/child/ chains going back in time, and we will decide that a sufficiently distant ancestors of the current population were of a different species.

yawn...proof?

Pretty cool, eh? Did you wrap your head around that one?

it was already clear that you don't know beans about basic science...so no "head-wrapping" necessary

Simply not true. The entire world's natural history tells a different story than the story of the Flood of Noah. Squint all you want, and cherry-pick, and try to introduce some confusion into a subject about which truly educated folks acknowledge none, and you might convince yourself that the Flood is plausible. That's not the same as it really having happened though.

CFR for "entire's world history"...using hyperbole does not validate your speculation.

[_bcuzbcuz]

The glaciers arrived after the Flood. The Uniformitarian scientists may believe the glaciers have been around forever, but they sure seem to be melting a lot faster then anyone ever imagined --- are they not? Could be they miscalculated?

There can certainly be multiple layers of freezing under various climatic changes. The issue is that Uniformitarian scientists apply what they witness today to what they see. They cannot imagine an earth in upheaval (climatic and geologic) both during and post Flood, because they reject the Flood --- such goes against their training.

And you have no idea how ice layers in glaciers are laid down.

See if you can find one single research published that talks about multiple layers of ice being laid down during a single year period. But even if you could find even one (1) reputable scientist....or even, for that matter, find some non-uniformitarian (What is a Uniformitarian, by the way...did you just make up that word?) scientist, that stated ice could be laid down in 12 layers for every year, one for each month if you will, you still end up with enough ice layers for 65,000 years! And ice that is 5 kilometers thick (that's 3 1/2 miles deep), each and every inch divided into tiny layers of cyclic snow falls.

[_Sethbag]

Each year of snow gets compacted over time and each year then becomes a layer that displays the periods of snow during the cold months and lack of snow or even melting during the warm months. The record is not open to conjecture, it just is. Each year of snow is a new layer. Each layer contains trapped pollen particles, trapped CO2, dirt and dust. And each layer can be counted.

You and your silly Uniformitarianistas! You only assume that each year had one Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter seasonal progression because that's what we've seen for the last couple of thousand years. But God is mighty, and he could have made it so that in the millenium or so after the Flood, before the period of four seasons per year started, there were in fact 800 or even, since it's God we're talking about, 1000 seasons per year.

That's right. Perhaps we had three complete Spring->Summer->Fall->Winter seasonal cycles per day, with these rapid thaw/freeze cycles generating what so-called scientists have eroneously jumped to the tendentious conclusion were annual layers.

That leaves us with the Flood 4000 years ago, then 1000 years of 12 seasons per day in Greenland, followed by 3000 years of essentially what we see today as far as weather and climate patterns.

It all makes perfect sense, if you believe in God more than you trust in the arm of flesh.

Or, barring that, it's possible that God trained an army of monkeys to carry new snow each day to the areas where God knew (omniscient as he is) scientists would someday carry out their core digs, and compact it down to make it appear as if there were really 800,000 annual layers. Keep in mind, this was in addition to this monkey army's primary duty of building Adam's bridge.

The deepest ice core has over 800,000 layers! That's 800,000 years! Try and find one of your "experts" on the age of the earth that can explain away 800,000 ice layers. Oh, and by the way, the ice cores show NO global flood. Not anywhere in the 800,000 (That's eight hundred thousand....count them....800,000 layers)

Oh woe, woe be unto the unbelievers who trust in the arm of flesh and the ice cores those arms of flesh have dug up and counted. For man is blind as to the truth of God. Only those who read the Bible and whose beliefs happen to agree with Jo, LittleNipper, Subgenius, and I guess Franktalk will actually know the truth.

[_LittleNipper]

Each year of snow gets compacted over time and each year then becomes a layer that displays the periods of snow during the cold months and lack of snow or even melting during the warm months. The record is not open to conjecture, it just is. Each year of snow is a new layer. Each layer contains trapped pollen particles, trapped CO2, dirt and dust. And each layer can be counted.

You and your silly Uniformitarianistas! You only assume that each year had one Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter seasonal progression because that's what we've seen for the last couple of thousand years. But God is mighty, and he could have made it so that in the millenium or so after the Flood, before the period of four seasons per year started, there were in fact 800 or even, since it's God we're talking about, 1000 seasons per year.

That's right. Perhaps we had three complete Spring->Summer->Fall->Winter seasonal cycles per day, with these rapid thaw/freeze cycles generating what so-called scientists have eroneously jumped to the tendentious conclusion were annual layers.

That leaves us with the Flood 4000 years ago, then 1000 years of 12 seasons per day in Greenland, followed by 3000 years of essentially what we see today as far as weather and climate patterns.

It all makes perfect sense, if you believe in God more than you trust in the arm of flesh.

Or, barring that, it's possible that God trained an army of monkeys to carry new snow each day to the areas where God knew (omniscient as he is) scientists would someday carry out their core digs, and compact it down to make it appear as if there were really 800,000 annual layers. Keep in mind, this was in addition to this monkey army's primary duty of building Adam's bridge.

The deepest ice core has over 800,000 layers! That's 800,000 years! Try and find one of your "experts" on the age of the earth that can explain away 800,000 ice layers. Oh, and by the way, the ice cores show NO global flood. Not anywhere in the 800,000 (That's eight hundred thousand....count them....800,000 layers)

Oh woe, woe be unto the unbelievers who trust in the arm of flesh and the ice cores those arms of flesh have dug up and counted. For man is blind as to the truth of God. Only those who read the Bible and whose beliefs happen to agree with Jo, LittleNipper, Subgenius, and I guess Franktalk will actually know the truth.

You make light of reason; however, it is possible for rain to land on ice and freeze or a thaw and refreeze. 800,000 years of ice to exist for 800,000 years seems just a little unlikely. A comet or meteor strike is going to have some influence and more than likely a whole lot more than anyone may imagine ...

[_Franktalk]

..... The Bible (God's Word ) is complete. There is nothing to add to the reason Christ came, His kingship, Mary and Joseph's linage, Christ's mode of sacrafice, Christ's resurrection, Christ's assention, the establishment of Christ's Church (body of all believers), the prophecy of His eventual return to reign for 1000 years, ending with the final battle with satan and the creation of a new universe. .....

Yet we have these:

Mar 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

Some parables are not detailed. Therefore not complete.

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.

If blindness is on people how can the word be complete for them? And how is it that many verses are open when God opens them. Daniel did not understand what he wrote. It was to be opened later. Not all of scripture is open today.

Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Please give me the detail of this great mystery.

In the scroll of The Revelation it says the scroll should not be changed. This in no way changes when verses are opened and in no way applies to future revelation. Why must people try and place God in a box.

[_bcuzbcuz]

You make light of reason; however, it is possible for rain to land on ice and freeze or a thaw and refreeze. 800,000 years of ice to exist for 800,000 years seems just a little unlikely. A comet or meteor strike is going to have some influence and more than likely a whole lot more than anyone may imagine ...

And I reiterate, you have no idea how glaciers are formed, you're just taking swats in the dark. Instead of filling pages with "ifs" and "maybes" or "likelys and unlikelys", just try a standard geology text where the writers can back up their findings with real evidence. Then you won't have to "imagine" possible solutions but rather have something substantial to actually base an idea on. And once again, feel free to name any author who thinks several ice layers can be laid down in the same year. (Franktalk and Subgenius don't count)

[_LittleNipper]

You make light of reason; however, it is possible for rain to land on ice and freeze or a thaw and refreeze. 800,000 years of ice to exist for 800,000 years seems just a little unlikely. A comet or meteor strike is going to have some influence and more than likely a whole lot more than anyone may imagine ...

And I reiterate, you have no idea how glaciers are formed, you're just taking swats in the dark. Instead of filling pages with "ifs" and "maybes" or "likelys and unlikelys", just try a standard geology text where the writers can back up their findings with real evidence. Then you won't have to "imagine" possible solutions but rather have something substantial to actually base an idea on. And once again, feel free to name any author who thinks several ice layers can be laid down in the same year. (Franktalk and Subgenius don't count)

There is no one who has been around long enough to determine if what is presently accepted as today's norm was always the norm.

Also consider the following : http://www.detectingdesign.com/ancientice.html

[_Drifting]

There is no one who has been around long enough to determine if what is presently accepted as today's norm was always the norm.

Also consider the following : http://www.detectingdesign.com/ancientice.html

There is no one who has been around long enough to determine if what is presently accepted as the life of Jesus was always what was accepted as the life of Jesus. But you are willing to go with that...right?

[Guest]

There is no one who has been around long enough to determine if what is presently accepted as today's norm was always the norm.

Also consider the following : http://www.detectingdesign.com/ancientice.html

There is no one who has been around long enough to determine if what is presently accepted as the life of Jesus was always what was accepted as the life of Jesus. But you are willing to go with that...right?

However, there is the Bible, there are locations connected with biblical historical events, there are collaborating histories written by outsiders, and there are changed lives of average people living today (and the not so distant past) who have become believers. They often relate startling events which have happened to them, that appear to be beyond coincidence.... Only actions produce a positive and opposite reation ---- not imagined events.