The LDS Church is NOT the only "True" church!

The upper-crust forum for scholarly, polite, and respectful discussions only. Heavily moderated. Rated G.
Post Reply
_Drifting
_Emeritus
Posts: 7306
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:52 am

Re: The LDS Church is NOT the only "True" church!

Post by _Drifting »

SteelHead wrote:
Joseph Smith wrote: [I]t is contrary to the economy of God for any member of the Church, or any one, to receive instruction for those in authority, higher than themselves . . . if any person have a vision or a visitation from a heavenly messenger, it must be for his own benefit and instruction; for the fundamental principles, government, and doctrine of the Church are vested in the keys of the kingdom. B.H. Roberts, History of the Church 1:338


Are Jo, Frank, faqs, or Tobin in a position of authority, whereby they are authorized to teach as revealed truths their personal revelations?


No. They are apostates.
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
_SteelHead
_Emeritus
Posts: 8261
Joined: Tue May 17, 2011 1:40 am

Re: The LDS Church is NOT the only "True" church!

Post by _SteelHead »

I love being taught higher truths...... By those not in authority. Which are contrary to the teachings of the prophets.

And I am the one who doesn't understand Mormonism?
It is better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener at war.

Some of us, on the other hand, actually prefer a religion that includes some type of correlation with reality.
~Bill Hamblin
_jo1952
_Emeritus
Posts: 1118
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:04 am

Re: The LDS Church is NOT the only "True" church!

Post by _jo1952 »

RockSlider wrote:He was a member of the First Pres. You know, those guys that speak with the Lord, first hand all the time. And your telling me that he did not quite understand?


If we was referring in any way to reincarnation it is possible he knew. If he was just repeating what others had told him about being put into a specific place and time in that particular body because that spirit had been less than valiant in the spirit world, then he did not have the complete understanding. If it was the later, his understanding was based only on partial Truth. Do you have the complete text and surrounding circumstances which caused him to make that comment? Based only on what you offered, it did not sound like he was coming from an understanding of reincarnation.

The fact that he was in the First Presidency has little to do with the amount of All Truth which he possessed, or whether he yet understood all that had been taught to him (if indeed, it had been taught to him). This is the problem we have with the disconnect between our higher Leaders and what they really DO know, or what they do know but aren't allowed to discuss with the Church as a collective. Because I see members being excommunicated for their "beyond doctrine" beliefs, it is difficult to determine or even pray about details which we do not have. As such, they become suspect.

At least in the ancient church, the Apostles TOLD the members if they were ready to receive more or not; knowledge was not withheld from them without their knowing that knowledge was being withheld.

Blessings,

jo
_RockSlider
_Emeritus
Posts: 6752
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:02 am

Re: The LDS Church is NOT the only "True" church!

Post by _RockSlider »

Jo,

I assume we are talking about the same thing (discourse given to some missionaries about why some end up as children in good Mormon families and why some end up to be born, starving and dying of aids in Ethiopia).

Since Mormons believe (well hell, used to not sure what they might believe about this now) in a first estate and a second estate, I’ve never viewed this as a reincarnation, but as a simple sequence; fixed sized matter/intelligence pool ->spiritual birth->first estate->mortal birth->second estate->death->degree of glory. Progression, not reincarnation.

Now, my personal understanding of the concept of reincarnation, in Mormon Doctrine, would be that of “the potters clay” i.e. total dissolution, to be thrown back into the matter/intelligence pool (i.e. total darkeness/son of perdition).

So, I don't understand your concept of reincation here.

Anyway, if you are ok with it, please answer my previous questions.
_ldsfaqs
_Emeritus
Posts: 7953
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:41 pm

Re: The LDS Church is NOT the only "True" church!

Post by _ldsfaqs »

Hi Jo.... I'll try to respond as soon as I can (that was a long post). Kids, work, and finding a new and more permanent place to live is my current priority.
"Socialism is Rape and Capitalism is consensual sex" - Ben Shapiro
_ldsfaqs
_Emeritus
Posts: 7953
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:41 pm

Re: The LDS Church is NOT the only "True" church!

Post by _ldsfaqs »

Themis wrote:
ldsfaqs wrote:
Yep.... That's LDS Theology.... It's the whole reason for Temple Work, so the Dead might be judged accordingly the same as those in the flesh.

Statement sound familiar from Peter about Christ in the Bible?

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah....

For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.


Just to be clear I am saying that God will have to show up in person to everyone proving he exists and then giving them a chance to decide to follow him. If they do they will then receive exaltation in the Celestial kingdom. This would be necessary in order to have meet equal opportunity, since God supposedly has done it for a few who were wicked.


Nope, that is not correct....

People will be judged according to who they are in life, what good, what light they were able to know and nourish. In the post mortal life in the Spirit World, they will be taught, most all will accept Christ. The ones who were in the light will receive of the Celestial Kingdom, those less of the light will receive the lower kingdoms.

There is no "requirement" for Christ to show up to anyone "in person" proving he exists, and then they decide to follow him. Once people die, they will know for sure he exists, for all truth will be revealed to them, the Vail will be lifted.

You forget that God "placed" everyone on this earth.... Thus, whatever circumstance they are in and knowledge they have, he knows it already. Everyone has their test, and then God will see if they returned with honor.

Everyone is having "equal opportunity" by being mortal, by being able to choose between good and evil according to their own agency. It's actually the reason for the flood. The earth got so wicked that no one was any longer having a "chance" to choose between good and evil, for all they knew was evil.

The purpose of life is not to know the Gospel and the Church, that is only a blessing and calling given to a few, and those who seek it. The rest must simply choose between the good/light/truths they are able to know and darkness and evil. Every culture has it's "higher angels" per se, and access to basic and key moral principles, as well as some sort of religious devotion which contain many truths and moral principles.

There is a "reason" we aren't ANTI other religions and otherwise..... It's because we do the necessary work for the dead that must be done, and in the end God's going to work it all out and everyone will have a chance to know the "whole" truth, and based on who they were, they will go exactly where they belong and be exactly who they were to be.

The is BASIC LDS theology which you should already know.....
A righteous Catholic, Muslim, or Atheist will after life be able to know the truth, and because they were righteous, they will live with God. Truth is important, but to God "character" is the most important thing in the end. Because as humans "truth" is relative to each individual. While there are absolutes, few are going to know them all or even most, let alone what is still not known.

And FYI, the reason the Church and the Gospel Truths are still important is because it provides the truths people can know and accept, and be a light unto the world. The world in "character" has been greatly influenced by Christ being on the earth, as well as other events and people who were/are called.
Last edited by Guest on Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Socialism is Rape and Capitalism is consensual sex" - Ben Shapiro
_Drifting
_Emeritus
Posts: 7306
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:52 am

Re: The LDS Church is NOT the only "True" church!

Post by _Drifting »

ldsfaqs wrote:Nope, that is not correct....

People will be judged according to who they are in life, what good, what light they were able to know and nourish. In the post mortal life in the Spirit World, they will be taught, most all will accept Christ. The ones who were in the light will receive of the Celestial Kingdom, those less of the light will receive the lower kingdoms.

There is no "requirement" for Christ to show up to anyone "in person" proving he exists, and then they decide to follow him. Once people die, they will know for sure he exists, for all truth will be revealed to them, the Vail will be lifted.

You forget that God "placed" everyone on this earth.... Thus, whatever circumstance they are in and knowledge they have, he knows it already. Everyone has their test, and then God will see if they returned with honor.

Everyone is having "equal opportunity" by being mortal, by being able to choose between good and evil according to their own agency. It's actually the reason for the flood. The earth got so wicked that no one was any longer having a "chance" to choose between good and evil, for all they knew was evil.

The purpose of life is not to know the Gospel and the Church, that is only a blessing and calling given to a few, and those who seek it. The rest must simply choose between the good/light/truths they are able to know and darkness and evil. Every culture has it's "higher angels" per se, and access to basic and key moral principles, as well as some sort of religious devotion which contain many truths and moral principles.


What about children who die before their eight birthday?
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
_ldsfaqs
_Emeritus
Posts: 7953
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:41 pm

Re: The LDS Church is NOT the only "True" church!

Post by _ldsfaqs »

Drifting wrote:What about children who die before their eight birthday?


It never ceases to fascinate me when anti-mormons ask BASIC questions that they should know already.

After all, if you don't even and can't even know this basic teachings of the Church, what makes you all think you know and get right ANYTHING ELSE about the Church??? How does a "rational", intelligent, and moral person even come close to thinking that their negative judgments of the Church are actually the truth, when the BASICS even elude them???

You need to reflect on who you are actually serving.... It's not truth nor right.

As to your question, the same as everyone else who didn't know the Gospel and/or didn't receive of certain ordinances. They will receive them.
"Socialism is Rape and Capitalism is consensual sex" - Ben Shapiro
_Themis
_Emeritus
Posts: 13426
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:43 pm

Re: The LDS Church is NOT the only "True" church!

Post by _Themis »

ldsfaqs wrote:Nope, that is not correct....

People will be judged according to who they are in life, what good, what light they were able to know and nourish. In the post mortal life in the Spirit World, they will be taught, most all will accept Christ. The ones who were in the light will receive of the Celestial Kingdom, those less of the light will receive the lower kingdoms.

There is no "requirement" for Christ to show up to anyone "in person" proving he exists, and then they decide to follow him. Once people die, they will know for sure he exists, for all truth will be revealed to them, the Vail will be lifted.

You forget that God "placed" everyone on this earth.... Thus, whatever circumstance they are in and knowledge they have, he knows it already. Everyone has their test, and then God will see if they returned with honor.

Everyone is having "equal opportunity" by being mortal, by being able to choose between good and evil according to their own agency. It's actually the reason for the flood. The earth got so wicked that no one was any longer having a "chance" to choose between good and evil, for all they knew was evil.

The purpose of life is not to know the Gospel and the Church, that is only a blessing and calling given to a few, and those who seek it. The rest must simply choose between the good/light/truths they are able to know and darkness and evil. Every culture has it's "higher angels" per se, and access to basic and key moral principles, as well as some sort of religious devotion which contain many truths and moral principles.

There is a "reason" we aren't ANTI other religions and otherwise..... It's because we do the necessary work for the dead that must be done, and in the end God's going to work it all out and everyone will have a chance to know the "whole" truth, and based on who they were, they will go exactly where they belong and be exactly who they were to be.

The is BASIC LDS theology which you should already know.....
A righteous Catholic, Muslim, or Atheist will after life be able to know the truth, and because they were righteous, they will live with God. Truth is important, but to God "character" is the most important thing in the end. Because as humans "truth" is relative to each individual. While there are absolutes, few are going to know them all or even most, let alone what is still not known.

And FYI, the reason the Church and the Gospel Truths are still important is because it provides the truths people can know and accept, and be a light unto the world. The world in "character" has been greatly influenced by Christ being on the earth, as well as other events and people who were/are called.


I only brought it up since you mentioned equal opportunity, and you obviously don't know what that means.
42
_SteelHead
_Emeritus
Posts: 8261
Joined: Tue May 17, 2011 1:40 am

Re: The LDS Church is NOT the only "True" church!

Post by _SteelHead »

Faqs, you answered the wrong question. You said the earth was so wicked that there were no righteous left, drifting was asking about the children under eight who would have been present, yet were stilled esteemed as fish food. If there are innocent children under the age of accountability, how were there no righteous on the earth outside of Noah and co?
It is better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener at war.

Some of us, on the other hand, actually prefer a religion that includes some type of correlation with reality.
~Bill Hamblin
Post Reply