Commentary on Romans 1 through 9

[_Franktalk]

I am going to share my interpretation of Romans 1 through 9. I hope this will help those who see my beliefs as odd get a better view as to why I hold on to those beliefs. I will be happy to respond to questions about interpretation but will not respond to off topic posts.

The Duality, the Carnal mind and the Spirit


Man tends to think of himself as one thing. This is the carnal mind which is how we grow up and experience the world around us. The most difficult thing you will ever do is develop a sense for the spirit separate from the carnal mind. It requires a journey deep into ones self and with the help of Baptism we can split in two. The flesh with the carnal mind and the spirit which can then start a walk with God. I will attempt to show how Paul and the Holy Spirit laid out this path in scripture so that those who are ready can envision their goal so they can start the walk in the spirit.

This is a very difficult subject and may require years of effort to fully embrace the concept and then more time to strengthen the spirit. But all journeys begin with the first step.

I will use the Book of Romans to describe this dual existence we have but the duality is embedded in all of scripture. This is the spiritual view of scripture verses the physical or worldly view. The worldly view is the one in which the carnal mind sees and tries to understand scripture using the wisdom of the world. The carnal mind can not receive the things of God so it forms its own view of the message. This is why there are so many views of scripture produced by the carnal mind.

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The proof of the carnal mind is all around us as various churches and doctrines. The search for the correct church is a fool’s game. There are no correct churches, not one. We can have fellowship and we can join together in charity. We can seek to edify each other using the gifts of God. If you must be in a church for fellowship then seek one which tells you to seek knowledge no matter where or how it comes to you. Reject a church which says that only the leaders of the church contain the message from God. All truth comes from the Holy Spirit; it does not come from church leaders. There are Holy men among us but every one of them is to be tested against scripture and verified by the Holy Spirit.

So let us read the section of the Book of Romans in which the Holy Spirit through Paul lays out in detail our dual state.

Romans 1

1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the Holy Scriptures,)
3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

It is interesting to note that Paul considers himself separated out for the gospel. To me it implies that many like him (a Jew) would remain under the Law of Moses. It appears that this dividing is an act of God.

Paul’s letter is addressed to those who are in Rome and are called of Jesus Christ and called to be saints. So we can see that this letter is for those who have already accepted Christ.

8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

Now we see a dividing happen. It is obvious that faith has levels and the faith of those in Rome who have heard the call and answered that calling in faith have developed their faith to such a level as to separate out them self from the rest of the world. So in essence these are ready to hear Paul’s words. We may all feel we are ready but just how much faith was Paul referring to in his letter? I think we will know if we are ready if the things in the letter make sense to us or we have already started the journey he will speak about.

9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;
10 Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you.
11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;
12 That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.

Here again Paul is referring to their level of faith. Their faith is such that Paul will receive comfort from them. Now even at this level of faith Paul states that he is desirous to impart to them some spiritual gift. He goes on to imply that they may be established to the end by the help of the spiritual gift. It is my belief that the rest of the letter is a detailed account of that spiritual gift. Yet that gift being of spirit can only be discerned with spiritual eyes. Those with carnal eyes will just see words on a page.

13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.
14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.
15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Paul was led by the Spirit of God to go many places. He was also prompted to write many letters in which some are very difficult to understand teachings as laid out. In fact Peter states this clearly.

2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other Scriptures, unto their own destruction.

What is most interesting is that the wisdom of Paul was given to him. In much the same way the Wisdom of Solomon was given to him.

But how are we to know if we have the faith and spiritual wisdom that Paul speaks of? How can we know if we have spiritual eyes and can see the message of God? Don’t we need a measuring stick of some kind that allows us to measure ourselves? All of these questions are answered by Paul. We just have to read and understand what he was saying.


I will post one chapter a day.

[_Albion]

Romans , perhaps the deepest theological book in the New Testament, which preaches fully the inadequacy of the Law with its commandments to save and the completeness of God's salvation in Jesus Christ through faith lived out in a life of righteousness in the Spirit.....holy living. Paul identifies himself as a servant of Jesus Christ, a title used in scripture for those devoted to a special work for God...this is the place Paul claims for himself within the New Covenant. Called...chosen by Christ to be an apostle....an important emphasis because there were those, the Judaizers, who denied his apostleship. Reference is to David to declare Jesus's lineage as the prophesied Messiah....declared the Son of God to emphasize his divinity...with power to emphasize the divine power of the resurrection.

No levels declared in verse 8 but a simple acknowledgement of the faith of the believers in Rome which represented one of the reasons Paul wished to visit them....to share in fellowship with them unified in faith in Christ. Christ and his example provided the "measuring stick" for believers. Justification, rightness with God, comes through faith in Christ only.

[_Franktalk]

....
No levels declared in verse 8 but a simple acknowledgement of the faith of the believers in Rome which represented one of the reasons Paul wished to visit them....to share in fellowship with them unified in faith in Christ. Christ and his example provided the "measuring stick" for believers. Justification, rightness with God, comes through faith in Christ only.

You do know your scriptures. That is great. The issues with levels of faith I am sure are obvious. We can't all have the same level of faith. Those who do think the bar is set very low and anything above that low bar is not needed is exactly what my commentary will address. It is my opinion and as long as we share our opinions I think we can learn from each other.

[_Albion]

I suppose I am skittish about the term "levels" because of its use within other Mormon theology. I think that believers do have greater or lesser faith than others but believe that faith is accepted as all the same at the point of salvation....one demonstration and declaration of faith, one divine act of salvation. All who call upon him for salvation receive it..... from the weakest to the strongest. The seedling that springs from the ground is no less a plant than the bush that will be.

I think it good to read more than one translation of a scripture. Phillips in his modern translation, Letters to Young Churches, renders Paul desire to visit Rome in simple terms: "I assure you that you are always in my prayers. I am constantly asking Him that He will somehow make it possible for me now, at long last, to come to Rome. I am longing to see you: I want to bring you some spiritual strength and that will mean I shall be strengthened by you, each of us helped by the other's faith."

I personally see little hidden meaning in these early verses but I do see a very real and open Paul who writes with sincerity, feeling, and a deep longing to see his fellow believers in Rome.

[_Franktalk]

Albion,

As the chapters unfold I am sure we may see things differently. That is expected. But I think the conversation is well worth it. My commentary is focused on just the dual nature of our existence. There are of course many things to say that I passed over trying to stay on the theme of the paper.

I know that many see a problem with works and how it relates to the atonement of Christ. They prefer to see the faith and belief as an end and works associated with the law. That is not a bad interpretation of faith. And as things unfold you will see that I do not follow the Mormon church in that regard. I do think that the church and what the members think may be two different things. But I am new to this and don't know for sure. As we get to those areas I am sure we may have our differences. But I do want to leave out the church's view and just concentrate on what we personally feel the scripture is saying.

I am sure that we can speak about what we see in the words and don't need to drag any old history or scholars into this. I hate it when discussions turn into a debate on who has the best scholar as their guy. It should be fun.

[_Franktalk]

Romans 2

1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

Paul continues with details about those who do not walk a righteous path. He makes it clear that there is no escape. It is interesting to point out verses 6, 7, 8. Here Paul contrasts the people who doing things right verses those who are doing things wrong. Note that Paul says that those who are doing things right do so by continuance in well doing. So doing well is a continuous effort not just some moment of accepting Jesus.

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;
19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? Thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? Thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfill the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Here Paul is contrasting faith and the law. Both are judged by God. Those who are to live by faith in Christ are one set of people and those who are to live by the Law of Moses are another group of people. He lays out how the judgment will be administered by God for those who say they live by the law. We are all judged by what we do.

[_Franktalk]

The knowledge of sin and a talk about the Law.

Romans 3

1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
3 For what if some did not believe? Shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, that thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
5 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)
6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? Whose damnation is just.
9 What then? Are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulcher; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Paul is setting the stage for what follows. He states that both Jew and Gentile are under sin. He states that not one is righteous. Paul has already declared that those who have faith to faith are different but now he is saying we are all the same in sin. No matter our faith we all fall short and we all need a path to clean ourselves of our sin.

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

The knowledge of sin was brought to the world by the law. You could say that once man knows that God has commandments for us then we are held accountable to keep those commandments. Since to love God and to love each other are the two greatest commandments then we all fail at the top. To love all of the souls on the earth is something the flesh can not do. The flesh is subject to the world and God is asking for perfection. So our soul which acquires faith in the knowledge of Jesus the Christ can clean us of the sins that the body of flesh acquires by accepting Christ and His redemption power. It is Christ who has the power of forgiveness. We through faith must repent and ask to be forgiven. This allows us to be clean for a moment but that is all. Going back and seeking forgiveness over and over is not perfection. We are told to be like Father who is perfect. The Father does not sin so how can we be like Christ who lived without sin or the Father who lives without sin? Now if Paul stopped here and said nothing more then we might conclude that the best we can do is try our best and not acquire perfection. But he does go on and describes the spiritual walk, But before doing so he again contrast the Jew and the Gentile and how the law and works plays out for all of us.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29 Is he the God of the Jews only? Is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

It is faith that allows someone to modify their behavior to please God. It is the love of God that allows us to do works in righteousness. We want to do good works because it is the right thing to do. It is the will of God to do good works. If one does do good works for rewards in heaven those works are not counted for righteousness.

[_Franktalk]

Romans 4

1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

If Abraham did good works then those works would count to glory if they were done without faith in God. But if the works were done because of faith in the promise of God then those works would be counted as righteousness. Even the law has a foundation in faith. Faith that the law came from God.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Here Paul is contrasting again works done for a reward verses works done because of a belief in God. For those who do good works so that God is in debt to them the works count for nothing. For those who do works because of their belief in God then their faith is counted for righteousness.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? For we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
10 How was it then reckoned? When he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

The Lord choose Abraham and Abraham had faith in the Lord before Abraham was circumcised so the tree of faith had been established before circumcision. So Abraham is the father of the faith for both the Jew and the Gentile.

18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:
20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Abraham was commanded to be perfect. Gen 17:1 At that time Abraham was told about his future son Isaac. This is also the time that the Lord changed the name of Abram to Abraham and Sarai to Sarah. Later Abraham is tempted by the Lord Gen 22:1 where Abraham is commanded to kill Isaac as a sacrifice to the Lord. This was a test to the faith in God’s promise to make Isaac a father of many nations. Abraham was going to carry out the Lord’s command but was stopped at the last moment. The world is setup to tempt all of us. But we are to strive to be perfect in this fallen world. To be perfect is to have unshakable faith and to follow the commandments of the Lord.

[_Albion]

I equate perfection as righteousness before God and verse 21 in chapter 3 clearly shows that a righteousness, apart from any law (which includes commandments) has been revealed and that righteousness comes from God, it is not something the believer generates.

"But now a righteousness from God, apart from law (lower case L covers the Law and commandments), has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe."

It is a way of acceptance that God has provided...a necessary provision since no man, past present or future, can ever work their way to perfection no matter how hard they try. Faith demonstrated is man's trustful acceptance of God's free gift through his Son. Everyone is a sinner, there are no exceptions, but through faith alone the penitent sinner is justified, made righteous, as if perfect, before God. Good works, the keeping of commandments, are important as the demonstration of the saving work of salvation through faith that has taken place in the believer. Before, the believer was a slave to sin...after, he is a slave to righteousness. In this regard there is no difference between Jew and Gentile...none can rely on privilege or merits.

"Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the Law? No, but on that of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified (perfected in the sight of God) by faith apart from observing the Law." Paul closes this chapter by stating that the Law is not nullified by this faith...but it is upheld by it.

[_Franktalk]

I equate perfection as righteousness before God and verse 21 in chapter 3 clearly shows that a righteousness, apart from any law (which includes commandments) has been revealed and that righteousness comes from God, it is not something the believer generates.

"But now a righteousness from God, apart from law (lower case L covers the Law and commandments), has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe."

How can you be righteous before God? By borrowing someone else's deeds? Why would Christ say follow Me if all we have to do is believe in Him. Since Christ did not lean on someone else's righteousness how can we be like Him by being completely different?

It is a way of acceptance that God has provided...a necessary provision since no man, past present or future, can ever work their way to perfection no matter how hard they try. Faith demonstrated is man's trustful acceptance of God's free gift through his Son. Everyone is a sinner, there are no exceptions, but through faith alone the penitent sinner is justified, made righteous, as if perfect, before God. Good works, the keeping of commandments, are important as the demonstration of the saving work of salvation through faith that has taken place in the believer. Before, the believer was a slave to sin...after, he is a slave to righteousness. In this regard there is no difference between Jew and Gentile...none can rely on privilege or merits.

So since the job of following the commandments is hard let us just not try at all and lean on Christ. We can wallow in the world and be just like Christ who hated the world and the world hated Him. You will have to describe how we can be like Christ by being totally different.

"Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the Law? No, but on that of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified (perfected in the sight of God) by faith apart from observing the Law." Paul closes this chapter by stating that the Law is not nullified by this faith...but it is upheld by it.

So if the law is upheld by faith why do you wish to nullify the law by saying that the law does not apply? And by law I am referring to the commandments.