LittleNipper wrote:God is perfect and triune. One God in three persons. But again, I believe you are thinking in terms of time. God knows, but we do not. God is teaching those who will accept Him. Actually Ancient Rome began to decline faster as it corrupted Christainity, making it a system of works and the incorporation of classical mythology, coupled with pagan ritualism and authoritarianism.
Sorry, Nipper, but history may not be your strong point.
If Constantine had not made Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire you would not be a Christian today. The remnants of that empire exist today as the Roman Catholic Church. Whatever protestant religion you claim as yours is a spin off of that.
Rome rose from a small city state to a vast empire while practicing "classical mythology, coupled with pagan ritualism and authoritarianism". The decline came once they became Christians. Maybe that was a message from God.
You might want to look all this up. And (no offence), you really should consider using the spell checker I recommended.
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.
"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.
LittleNipper wrote:God is perfect and triune. One God in three persons. But again, I believe you are thinking in terms of time. God knows, but we do not. God is teaching those who will accept Him. Actually Ancient Rome began to decline faster as it corrupted Christainity, making it a system of works and the incorporation of classical mythology, coupled with pagan ritualism and authoritarianism.
Sorry, Nipper, but history may not be your strong point.
If Constantine had not made Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire you would not be a Christian today. The remnants of that empire exist today as the Roman Catholic Church. Whatever protestant religion you claim as yours is a spin off of that.
Rome rose from a small city state to a vast empire while practicing "classical mythology, coupled with pagan ritualism and authoritarianism". The decline came once they became Christians. Maybe that was a message from God.
You might want to look all this up. And (no offence), you really should consider using the spell checker I recommended.
LittleNipper wrote:Since God created everything, He also created time. My take is that God IS and always will be, and then in the beginning, God created time. From that point foward we have history.
And nothing before that? Just God (a temporal) playing solitaire?
You should read my comments...
on the very first page of this thread, I wrote:God created the universe because he was bored and lonely.
Eric Frank Russell in 'Sole Solution' wrote:He brooded in darkness and there was no one else. Not a voice, not a whisper. Not the touch of a hand. Not the warmth of another heart.
Darkness.
Solitude.
Eternal confinement where all was black and silent and nothing stirred. Imprisonment without prior condemnation. Punishment without sin. The unbearable that had to be borne unless some mode of escape could be devised. No hope of rescue from elsewhere. No sorrow or sympathy or pity in another soul, another mind. No doors to be opened, no locks to be turned, no bars to be sawn apart. Only the thick, deep sable night in which to fumble and find nothing.
Circle a hand to the right and there is nought. Sweep an arm to the left and discover emptiness utter and complete. Walk forward through the darkness like a blind man lost in a vast, forgotten hall and there is no floor, no echo of footsteps, nothing to bar one’s path. He could touch and sense one thing only. And that was self. Therefore the only available resources with which to overcome his predicament were those secreted within himself. He must be the instrument of his own salvation.
How? No problem is beyond solution. By that thesis science lives. Without it, science dies. He was the ultimate scientist. As such, he could not refuse this challenge to his capabilities. His torments were those of boredom, loneliness, mental and physical sterility. They were not to be endured. The easiest escape is via the imagination. One hangs in a strait-jacket and flees the corporeal trap by adventuring in a dreamland of one’s own. But dreams are not enough. They are unreal and all too brief. The freedom to be gained must be genuine and of long duration. That meant he must make a stern reality of dreams, a reality so contrived that it would persist for all time. It must be self-perpetuating. Nothing less would make escape complete. So he sat in the great dark and battled the problem. There was no clock, no calendar to mark the length of thought. There were no external data upon which to compute. There was nothing, nothing except the workings within his agile mind.
And one thesis: no problem is beyond solution. He found it eventually. It meant escape from everlasting night. It would provide experience, companionship, adventure, mental exercise, entertainment, warmth, love, the sound of voices, the touch of hands. The plan was anything but rudimentary. On the contrary it was complicated enough to defy untangling for endless aeons. It had to be like that to have permanence. The unwanted alternative was swift return to silence and the bitter dark. It took a deal of working out. A million and one aspects had to be considered along with all their diverse effects upon each other. And when that was done he had to cope with the next million. And so on ... on ... on. He created a mighty dream of his own, a place of infinite complexity schemed in every detail to the last dot and comma. Within this he would live anew. But not as himself. He was going to dissipate his person into numberless parts, a great multitude of variegated shapes and forms each of which would have to battle its own peculiar environment. And he would toughen the struggle to the limit of endurance by unthinking himself, handicapping his parts with appalling ignorance and forcing them to learn afresh. He would seed enmity between them by dictating the basic rules of the game. Those who observed the rules would be called good. Those who did not would be called bad. Thus there would be endless delaying conflicts within the one great conflict. When all was ready and prepared he intended to disrupt and become no longer one, but an enormous concourse of entities. Then his parts must fight back to unity and himself.
But first he must make reality of the dream. Ah, that was the test!
The time was now. The experiment must begin.
Leaning forward, he gazed into the dark and said, ‘Let there be light.’
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco - To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
Just read it. I don't understand your point. The first paragraph is true. The rest is just sort of general information.
If there is something here that supports your views, you should quote that section.
My point is that even Roman Catholics seem to realize that a pope didn't exist until the 5th century and that many churches seem to have gotten along fine without him. The evidence indicates and there is every reason to believe that there existed small house churches that were totally overlooked by the authorities in Rome. Though few and far between, it is very likely such existed from the 1st century all the way to the Reformation. They just kept to themselves ----- who would know? The Reformation was the result of more and more individuals being exposed to the reading of the Bible and not the dictation of "traditions" labeled "doctrine"by the "papists."
Aaron and his sons, along with their sacred garments, the anointing oil, the bull for the sin offering, the two rams, and the basket of bread made without yeast, are presented in front of the entire community of Israel at the entrance of the Tabernacle. Aaron and his sons are washed with water and dressed in the official clothes. On Aaron, Moses tied the sash around his waist, dressed him in the robe, placed the ephod on him, and attached the ephod securely with its decorative sash. Moses placed the chestpiece on Aaron and put the Urim and the Thummim inside it. He places the turban on Aaron’s head and attaches the gold medallion—the badge of holiness—to the front of the turban, just as the Lord had commanded. Moses takes the anointing oil and anointed the Tabernacle and everything in it, making them holy. Sprinkling the oil on the altar seven times, anointing it and all its utensils, as well as the washbasin and its stand, making them holy. Then pouring some of the anointing oil on Aaron’s head, anointing him and making him holy for his work and also Aaron’s sons. He clothed them in their tunics, tied their sashes around them, and put their special head coverings... Moses presented the bull for the sin offering. Aaron and his sons laid their hands on the bull’s head, and Moses slaughtered it. Moses took some of the blood, and with his finger he put it on the four horns of the altar to purify it. He poured out the rest of the blood at the base of the altar. Through this process, he made the altar holy by purifying it. Then Moses took all the fat around the internal organs, the long lobe of the liver, and the two kidneys and the fat around them, and he burned it all on the altar. He took the rest of the bull, including its hide, meat, and dung, and burned it on a fire outside the camp, just as the Lord had commanded him.
Then Moses presented the ram for the burnt offering. Aaron and his sons laid their hands on the ram’s head, and slaughtered it. Taking the ram’s blood and splattered it against all sides of the altar, he cut the ram into pieces, and he burned the head, some of its pieces, and the fat on the altar. Washing the internal organs and the legs with water, Moses burned the entire ram on the altar as a burnt offering. It was a pleasing aroma, a special gift presented to the Lord, as the Lord had commanded him.
Then Moses presented the other ram, which was the ram of ordination. Aaron and his sons laid their hands on the ram’s head. Moses slaughtered it. Moses took some of its blood and applied it to the lobe of Aaron’s right ear, the thumb of his right hand, and the big toe of his right foot. Moses presented Aaron’s sons in the same fashion. He then splattered the rest of the blood against all sides of the altar.
Moses took the fat, including the fat of the broad tail, the fat around the internal organs, the long lobe of the liver, and the two kidneys and the fat around them, along with the right thigh. On top of these he placed a thin cake of bread made without yeast, a cake of bread mixed with olive oil, and a wafer spread with olive oil. All these were taken from the basket of bread made without yeast that was placed in the Lord’s presence. He put all these in the hands of Aaron and his sons, and he lifted them up as a special offering to the Lord. Moses then took all the offerings back from them and burned them on the altar on top of the burnt offering. This was the ordination offering. It was a pleasing aroma, a special gift presented to the Lord. Then Moses took the breast and lifted it up as a special offering to the Lord. This was Moses’ portion of the ram of ordination, as the Lord had commanded him. Moses took some of the anointing oil and some of the blood that was on the altar, and he sprinkled them on Aaron and his garments and on his sons and their garments. In this way, he made Aaron and his sons and their garments holy.
Aaron and his sons, boil the remaining meat of the offerings at the Tabernacle entrance, and eat it there, along with the bread that is in the basket of offerings for the ordination, just as commanded. They can not leave the Tabernacle entrance for seven days, for that is when the ordination ceremony will be completed. 34 Everything we have done today was commanded by the Lord in order to purify you, making you right with him. If they fail to do this, they will die. So Aaron and his sons did everything the Lord had commanded through Moses.
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1 And Jehovah speaketh unto Moses, saying,
2 `Take Aaron and his sons with him, and the garments, and the anointing oil, and the bullock of the sin-offering, and the two rams, and the basket of unleavened things,
3 and all the company assemble thou unto the opening of the tent of meeting.'
4 And Moses doth as Jehovah hath commanded him, and the company is assembled unto the opening of the tent of meeting,
5 and Moses saith unto the company, `This [is] the thing which Jehovah hath commanded to do.'
6 And Moses bringeth near Aaron and his sons, and doth bathe them with water,
7 and doth put on him the coat, and doth gird him with the girdle, and doth clothe him with the upper robe, and doth put on him the ephod, and doth gird him with the girdle of the ephod, and doth bind [it] to him with it,
8 and doth put on him the breastplate, and doth put unto the breastplate the Lights and the Perfections,
9 and doth put the mitre on his head, and doth put on the mitre, over-against its front, the golden flower of the holy crown, as Jehovah hath commanded Moses.
10 And Moses taketh the anointing oil, and anointeth the tabernacle, and all that [is] in it, and sanctifieth them;
11 and he sprinkleth of it on the altar seven times, and anointeth the altar, and all its vessels, and the laver, and its base, to sanctify them;
12 and he poureth of the anointing oil on the head of Aaron, and anointeth him to sanctify him.
13 And Moses bringeth near the sons of Aaron, and doth clothe them [with] coats, and girdeth them [with] girdles, and bindeth for them turbans, as Jehovah hath commanded Moses.
14 And he bringeth nigh the bullock of the sin-offering, and Aaron layeth -- his sons also -- their hands on the head of the bullock of the sin-offering,
15 and [one] slaughtereth, and Moses taketh the blood, and putteth on the horns of the altar round about with his finger, and cleanseth the altar, and the blood he hath poured out at the foundation of the altar, and sanctifieth it, to make atonement upon it.
16 And he taketh all the fat that [is] on the inwards, and the redundance above the liver, and the two kidneys, and their fat, and Moses maketh Perfume on the altar,
17 and the bullock, and its skin, and its flesh, and its dung, he hath burnt with fire, at the outside of the camp, as Jehovah hath commanded Moses.
18 And he bringeth near the ram of the burnt-offering, and Aaron and his sons lay their hands on the head of the ram,
19 and [one] slaughtereth, and Moses sprinkleth the blood on the altar round about;
20 and the ram he hath cut into its pieces, and Moses maketh perfume with the head, and the pieces, and the fat,
21 and the inwards and the legs he hath washed with water, and Moses maketh perfume with the whole ram on the altar; it [is] a burnt-offering, for sweet fragrance; it [is] a fire-offering to Jehovah, as Jehovah hath commanded Moses.
22 And he bringeth near the second ram, a ram of the consecrations, and Aaron and his sons lay their hands on the head of the ram,
23 and [one] slaughtereth, and Moses taketh of its blood, and putteth on the tip of the right ear of Aaron, and on the thumb of his right hand, and on the great toe of his right foot;
24 and he bringeth near the sons of Aaron, and Moses putteth of the blood on the tip of their right ear, and on the thumb of their right hand, and on the great toe of their right foot. And Moses sprinkleth the blood on the altar round about,
25 and taketh the fat, and the fat tail, and all the fat that [is] on the inwards, and the redundance above the liver, and the two kidneys, and their fat, and the right leg;
26 and out of the basket of unleavened things, which [is] before Jehovah, he hath taken one unleavened cake, and one cake of oiled bread, and one thin cake, and putteth [them] on the fat, and on the right leg;
27 and putteth the whole on the hands of Aaron, and on the hands of his sons, and waveth them -- a wave-offering before Jehovah.
28 And Moses taketh them from off their hands, and maketh perfume on the altar, on the burnt-offering, they [are] consecrations for sweet fragrance; it [is] a fire-offering to Jehovah;
29 and Moses taketh the breast, and waveth it -- a wave-offering before Jehovah; of the ram of the consecrations it hath been to Moses for a portion, as Jehovah hath commanded Moses.
30 And Moses taketh of the anointing oil, and of the blood which [is] on the altar, and sprinkleth on Aaron, on his garments, and on his sons, and on the garments of his sons with him, and he sanctifieth Aaron, his garments, and his sons, and the garments of his sons with him.
31 And Moses saith unto Aaron, and unto his sons, `Boil ye the flesh at the opening of the tent of meeting, and there ye do eat it and the bread which [is] in the basket of the consecrations, as I have commanded, saying, Aaron and his sons do eat it.
32 `And the remnant of the flesh and of the bread with fire ye burn;
33 and from the opening of the tent of meeting ye go not out seven days, till the day of the fulness, the days of your consecration -- for seven days he doth consecrate your hand;
34 as he hath done on this day, Jehovah hath commanded to do, to make atonement for you;
35 and at the opening of the tent of meeting ye abide, by day and by night seven days, and ye have kept the charge of Jehovah, and die not, for so I have been commanded.'
36 And Aaron doth -- his sons also -- all the things which Jehovah hath commanded by the hand of Moses.
Leviticus 9:1-24 After the ordination ceremony, on the eighth day, Moses gathered the priests and the elders of Israel. Moses tells Aaron to take a young bull for a sin offering and a ram for a burnt offering, both without defects, and present them to the Lord. Then tell the Israelites to take a male goat for a sin offering, and take a calf and a lamb, both a year old and without defects, for a burnt offering. Also take a bull and a ram for a peace offering and flour moistened with olive oil for a grain offering. Present all these offerings to the Lord because the Lord will appear today.
Then later the whole community came forward and stood before the Lord. Moses tells Aaron to come to the altar and sacrifice the sin and burnt offering to purify himself and the people. Present the offerings of the people to purify them, making them right with the Lord, as commanded. Aaron went to the altar, slaughtered the calf as a sin offering for himself. His sons brought him the blood, and he dipped his finger in it and put it on the horns of the altar. He poured out the rest of the blood at the base of the altar. He burned on the altar the fat, the kidneys, and the long lobe of the liver from the sin offering, as the Lord commanded. The meat and the hide he burned outside the camp. Next Aaron slaughtered the animal for the burnt offering. His sons brought him the blood, and he splattered it against all sides of the altar. They handed him each piece of the burnt offering, including the head, and he burned them on the altar. Then he washed the internal organs and the legs and burned them on the altar along with the rest of this offering. Aaron presented the offerings of the people. He slaughtered the people’s goat and presented it as an offering for their sin, just as he had first done with the offering for his own sin. Then he presented the burnt offering and sacrificed it correctly. He also presented the grain offering, burning a handful of the flour mixture on the altar, in addition to the regular burnt offering for the morning. Aaron slaughtered the bull and the ram for the people’s peace offering. His sons brought him the blood, and he splattered it against all sides of the altar. He took the fat of the bull and the ram—the fat of the broad tail and from around the internal organs—along with the kidneys and the long lobes of the livers --- placing these fat portions on top of the breasts of these animals and burned them on the altar. Aaron lifted up the breasts and right thighs as a special offering to the Lord, just as commanded. Aaron raised his hands toward the people and blessed them. After presenting the sin offering, the burnt offering, and the peace offering, he stepped down from the altar. Moses and Aaron went into the Tabernacle, and when they came back out, they blessed the people again, and the glory of the Lord appeared to the whole community. Fire blazed forth from the Lord’s presence and consumed the burnt offering and the fat on the altar. The people saw this, shouted with joy and fell face down on the ground.
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1 And it cometh to pass on the eighth day, Moses hath called for Aaron and for his sons, and for the elders of Israel,
2 and he saith unto Aaron, `Take to thyself a calf, a son of the herd, for a sin-offering, and a ram for a burnt-offering, perfect ones, and bring near before Jehovah.
3 `And unto the sons of Israel thou dost speak, saying, Take ye a kid of the goats for a sin-offering, and a calf, and a lamb, sons of a year, perfect ones, for a burnt-offering,
4 and a bullock and a ram for peace-offerings, to sacrifice before Jehovah, and a present mixed with oil; for to-day Jehovah hath appeared unto you.'
5 And they take that which Moses hath commanded unto the front of the tent of meeting, and all the company draw near and stand before Jehovah;
6 and Moses saith, `This [is] the thing which Jehovah hath commanded; do [it], and the honour of Jehovah doth appear unto you.'
7 And Moses saith unto Aaron, `Draw near unto the altar, and make thy sin-offering, and thy burnt-offering, and make atonement for thyself, and for the people, and make the offering of the people, and make atonement for them, as Jehovah hath commanded.'
8 And Aaron draweth near unto the altar, and slaughtereth the calf of the sin-offering, which [is] for himself;
9 and the sons of Aaron bring the blood near unto him, and he dippeth his finger in the blood, and putteth [it] on the horns of the altar, and the blood he hath poured out at the foundation of the altar;
10 and the fat, and the kidneys, and the redundance of the liver, of the sin-offering, he hath made a perfume on the altar, as Jehovah hath commanded Moses;
11 and the flesh and the skin he hath burnt with fire, at the outside of the camp.
12 And he slaughtereth the burnt-offering, and the sons of Aaron have presented unto him the blood, and he sprinkleth it on the altar round about;
13 and the burnt-offering they have presented unto him, by its pieces, and the head, and he maketh perfume on the altar;
14 and he washeth the inwards and the legs, and maketh perfume for the burnt-offering on the altar.
15 And he bringeth near the offering of the people, and taketh the goat of the sin-offering which [is] for the people, and slaughtered it, and maketh it a sin-offering, like the first;
16 and he bringeth near the burnt-offering, and maketh it, according to the ordinance;
17 and he bringeth near the present, and filleth his palm with it, and maketh perfume on the altar, apart from the burnt-offering of the morning.
18 And he slaughtereth the bullock and the ram, a sacrifice of the peace-offerings, which [are] for the people, and sons of Aaron present the blood unto him (and he sprinkleth it on the altar round about),
19 and the fat of the bullock, and of the ram, the fat tail, and the covering [of the inwards], and the kidneys, and the redundance above the liver,
20 and they set the fat on the breasts, and he maketh perfume with the fat on the altar;
21 and the breasts, and the right leg hath Aaron waved -- a wave-offering before Jehovah, as He hath commanded Moses.
22 And Aaron lifteth up his hand towards the people, and blesseth them, and cometh down from making the sin-offering, and the burnt-offering, and the peace-offerings.
23 And Moses goeth in -- Aaron also -- unto the tent of meeting, and they come out, and bless the people, and the honour of Jehovah appeareth unto all the people;
24 and fire cometh out from before Jehovah, and consumeth on the altar the burnt-offering, and the fat; and all the people see, and cry aloud, and fall on their faces.
Leviticus 10:1-20 Aaron’s sons Nadab and Abihu put coals of fire in their incense burners and sprinkled incense over them, disobeying the Lord by burning the wrong kind of fire. So fire blazed forth from the Lord’s presence and burned them up, and they died there before the Lord. This is what the Lord meant when he said that He will display His holiness through those who come near Him, displaying His glory before the people. Aaron was silent.Then Moses told Mishael and Elzaphan, Aaron’s cousins, the sons of Aaron’s uncle Uzziel, to come forward and carry away the bodies from in front of the sanctuary to a place outside the camp. So they came forward and picked them up by their garments and carried them outside the camp. Moses said to Aaron and his sons Eleazar and Ithamar to not show grief by leaving their hair uncombed or by tearing their clothes. If they do, they will die, and the Lord’s anger will strike the whole community of Israel. However, the rest of the Israelites, your relatives, may mourn because of the Lord’s fiery destruction of Nadab and Abihu. But they must not leave the entrance of the Tabernacle or they will die, for you have been anointed with the Lord’s anointing oil. The Lord said to Aaron, that he and his descendants must never drink wine or any other alcoholic drink before going into the Tabernacle or he/they will die. This is a permanent law, and must be observed from generation to generation. They must distinguish between what is sacred and what is common, between what is ceremonially unclean and what is clean. They must teach the Israelites all the decrees that the Lord has given them through Moses. Moses tells Aaron and his remaining sons, Eleazar and Ithamar To take what is left of the grain offering after a portion has been presented as a special gift to the Lord, and eat it beside the altar. Make sure it contains no yeast, for it is most holy. Eat it in a sacred place, for it has been given as special gifts presented to the Lord. But the breast and thigh that were lifted up as a special offering may be eaten in any place that is ceremonially clean. These parts have been given as your portion of the peace offerings presented by the people of Israel. They must lift up the thigh and breast as a special offering to the Lord, along with the fat of the special gifts. Moses then asked what had happened to the goat of the sin offering. When he discovered it had been burned up, he became very angry with Eleazar and Ithamar, Aaron’s remaining sons. "Why didn’t you eat the sin offering in the sacred area?” he demanded. “It is a holy offering! The Lord has given it to you to remove the guilt of the community and to purify the people, making them right with the Lord. Since the animal’s blood was not brought into the Holy Place, you should have eaten the meat in the sacred area as I ordered you.” Aaron answered Moses, “Today my sons presented both their sin offering and their burnt offering to the Lord. And yet this tragedy has happened. If I had eaten the people’s sin offering on this tragic day, would the Lord have been pleased?” Hearing this, Moses was satisfied.
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1 And the sons of Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, take each his censer, and put in them fire, and put on it perfume, and bring near before Jehovah strange fire, which He hath not commanded them;
2 and fire goeth out from before Jehovah, and consumeth them, and they die before Jehovah.
3 And Moses saith unto Aaron, `It [is] that which Jehovah hath spoken, saying, By those drawing near to Me I am sanctified, and in the face of all the people I am honoured;' and Aaron is silent.
4 And Moses calleth unto Mishael and unto Elzaphan, sons of Uzziel, uncle of Aaron, and saith unto them, `Come near, bear your brethren from the front of the sanctuary unto the outside of the camp;'
5 and they come near, and bear them in their coats unto the outside of the camp, as Moses hath spoken.
6 And Moses saith unto Aaron, and to Eleazar, and to Ithamar his sons, `Your heads ye do not uncover, and your garments ye do not rend, that ye die not, and on all the company He be wroth; as to your brethren, the whole house of Israel, they bewail the burning which Jehovah hath kindled;
7 and from the opening of the tent of meeting ye do not go out, lest ye die, for the anointing oil of Jehovah [is] upon you;' and they do according to the word of Moses.
8 And Jehovah speaketh unto Aaron, saying,
9 `Wine and strong drink thou dost not drink, thou, and thy sons with thee, in your going in unto the tent of meeting, and ye die not -- a statute age-during to your generations;
10 so as to make a separation between the holy and the common, and between the unclean and the pure;
11 and to teach the sons of Israel all the statutes which Jehovah hath spoken unto them by the hand of Moses.'
12 And Moses speaketh unto Aaron, and unto Eleazar, and unto Ithamar his sons, who are left, `Take ye the present that is left from the fire-offerings of Jehovah, and eat it unleavened near the altar, for it [is] most holy,
13 and ye have eaten it in the holy place, for it [is] thy portion, and the portion of thy sons, from the fire-offerings of Jehovah; for so I have been commanded.
14 `And the breast of the wave-offering, and the leg of the heave-offering, ye do eat in a clean place, thou, and thy sons, and thy daughters with thee; for thy portion and the portion of thy sons they have been given, out of the sacrifices of peace-offerings of the sons of Israel;
15 the leg of the heave-offering, and breast of the wave-offering, besides fire-offerings of the fat, they do bring in to wave a wave-offering before Jehovah, and it hath been to thee, and to thy sons with thee, by a statute age-during, as Jehovah hath commanded.'
16 And the goat of the sin-offering hath Moses diligently sought, and lo, it is burnt, and he is wroth against Eleazar, and against Ithamar, sons of Aaron, who are left, saying,
17 `Wherefore have ye not eaten the sin-offering in the holy place, for it [is] most holy -- and it He hath given to you to take away the iniquity of the company, to make atonement for them before Jehovah?
18 lo, its blood hath not been brought in unto the holy place within; eating ye do eat it in the holy place, as I have commanded.'
19 And Aaron speaketh unto Moses, `Lo, to-day they have brought near their sin-offering and their burnt-offering before Jehovah; and [things] like these meet me, yet I have eaten a sin-offering to-day; is it good in the eyes of Jehovah?'
20 And Moses hearkeneth, and it is good in his eyes.
It must be becomming obvioius to you that only you, ludwigm (bless his heart) and I are the only people that view this thread. I'm sure God will understand if you want to call it a day.
You are preaching to empty pews.
Ah well...
Last edited by Guest on Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.
"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.
1 INDRA, bring wealth that gives delight, the victor's ever-conquering wealth, Most excellent, to be our aid; 2 By means of which we may repel our foes in battle hand to hand, By thee assisted with the car. 3 Aided by thee, the thunder-armed, Indra, may we lift up the bolt, And conquer all our foes in fight. 4 With thee, O India, for ally with missile-darting heroes, may We conquer our embattled foes. 5 Mighty is Indra, yea supreme; greatness be his, the Thunderer: Wide as the heaven extends his power 6 Which aideth those to win them sons, who come as heroes to the fight, Or singers loving holy thoughts. 7 His belly, drinking deepest draughts of Soma, like an ocean swells, Like wide streams from the cope of heaven. 8 So also is his excellence, great, vigorous, rich in cattle, like A ripe branch to the worshipper. 9 For verily thy mighty powers, Indra, are saving helps at once Unto a worshipper like me. 10 So are his lovely gifts; let lauds and praises be to Indra sung, That he may drink the Soma juice.
HYMN IX. Indra.
1 COME, Indra, and delight thee with the juice at all the Soma feasts, Protector, mighty in thy strength. 2 To Indra pour ye forth the juice, the active gladdening juice to him The gladdening, omnific God. 3 O Lord of all men, fair of cheek, rejoice thee in the gladdening lauds, Present at these drink-offerings. 4 Songs have outpoured themselves to thee, Indra, the strong, the guardian Lord, And raised themselves unsatisfied. 5 Send to us bounty manifold, O Indra, worthy of our wish, For power supreme is only thine. 6 O Indra, stimulate thereto us emulously fain for wealth, And glorious, O most splendid One. 7 Give, Indra, wide and lofty fame, wealthy in cattle and in strength, Lasting our life-time, failing not. 8 Grant us high fame, O Indra, grant riches bestowing thousands, those Fair fruits of earth borne home in wains. 9 Praising with songs the praise-worthy who cometh to our aid, we call Indra, the Treasure-Lord of wealth. 10 To lofty Indra, dweller by each libation, the pious man Sings forth aloud a strengthening hymn.
HYMN X. Indra.
1 THE chanters hymn thee, they who say the word of praise magnify thee. The priests have raised thee up on high, O Śatakratu, like a pole. 2 As up he clomb from ridge to ridge and looked upon the toilsome task, Indra observes this wish of his, and the Rain hastens with his troop. 3 Harness thy pair of strong bay steeds, long-maned, whose bodies fill the girths, And, Indra, Soma-drinker, come to listen to our songs of praise. 4 Come hither, answer thou the song, sing in approval, cry aloud. Good Indra, make our prayer succeed, and prosper this our sacrifice. 5 To Indra must a laud be said, to strengthen him who freely gives, That Śakra may take pleasure in our friendship and drink-offerings. 6 Him, him we seek for friendship, him for riches and heroic might. For Indra, he is Śakra, he shall aid us while he gives us wealth. 7 Easy to turn and drive away, Indra, is spoil bestowed by thee. Unclose the stable of the kine, and give us wealth O Thunder-armed 8 The heaven and earth contain thee not, together, in thy wrathful mood. Win us the waters of the sky, and send us kine abundantly. 9 Hear, thou whose ear is quick, my call; take to thee readily my songs O Indra, let this laud of mine come nearer even than thy friend. 10 We know thee mightiest of all, in battles hearer of our cry. Of thee most mighty we invoke the aid that giveth thousandfold. 11 O Indra, Son of Kuśika, drink our libation with delight. Prolong our life anew, and cause the seer to win a thousand gifts. 12 Lover of song, may these our songs on every side encompass thee: Strengthening thee of lengthened life, may they be dear delights to thee.
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.
"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.
