- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco - To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
Have we got to the part where Lot's daughters rape him?
Or the talking donkey?
Or the part where a whole family gets burned to death because the casting of lots made the dad guilty of thieving spoils of war?
Where we at!?
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden ~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
I will actually be in a Good Friday performance of Leonardo's Last Supper. Each of the performers speaks to the audience as he questions if he is the one who will betray Jesus. It makes the entire event very real ---- though staged to resemble the "modern" painting. My character is one that the least is known about with any assurance. And so my character gets the most artistic license. However, we stick to the Bible. In the painting the glasses on the table are glass --- no "holy grail."
LittleNipper wrote:I will actually be in a Good Friday performance of Leonardo's Last Supper. Each of the performers speaks to the audience as he questions if he is the one who will betray Jesus. It makes the entire event very real ---- though staged to resemble the "modern" painting. My character is one that the least is known about with any assurance. And so my character gets the most artistic license. However, we stick to the Bible. In the painting the glasses on the table are glass --- no "holy grail."
Will Jesus's chair be empty as in the photo?
What? No grail?
I don't think da Vinci knew much about what tableware was like in the first century and probably never heard the great grail stories... English and maybe after his time.
Good luck with the show! Actually, the tradition (and better luck) is to say "break a leg".
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.
"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.
LittleNipper wrote:I will actually be in a Good Friday performance of Leonardo's Last Supper. Each of the performers speaks to the audience as he questions if he is the one who will betray Jesus. It makes the entire event very real ---- though staged to resemble the "modern" painting. My character is one that the least is known about with any assurance. And so my character gets the most artistic license. However, we stick to the Bible. In the painting the glasses on the table are glass --- no "holy grail."
Will Jesus's chair be empty as in the photo?
What? No grail?
I don't think da Vinci knew much about what tableware was like in the first century and probably never heard the great grail stories... English and maybe after his time.
Good luck with the show! Actually, the tradition (and better luck) is to say "break a leg".
Actually, we have someone who plays Jesus who has lines and also gives a blessing in Hebrew. We have a backdrop that looks like the original painting. One interesting bit is that the table is tilted at a slight angle down towards the audiance to help achieve the perspective. As a result the glasses on the table are filled with Raspberry JELLO so that they remain flat and not tiled in the glasses. Also, this prevents spilling accidents. I play James the Less ( more or less ).
1 And Jehovah speaketh unto Moses and unto Aaron, saying unto them,
2 `Speak unto the sons of Israel, saying, This [is] the beast which ye do eat out of all the beasts which [are] on the earth:
3 any dividing a hoof, and cleaving the cleft of the hoofs, bringing up the cud, among the beasts, it ye do eat.
4 `Only, this ye do not eat -- of those bringing up the cud, and of those dividing the hoof -- the camel, though it is bringing up the cud, yet the hoof not dividing -- it [is] unclean to you;
5 and the rabbit, though it is bringing up the cud, yet the hoof it divideth not -- unclean it [is] to you;
6 and the hare, though it is bringing up the cud, yet the hoof hath not divided -- unclean it [is] to you;
7 and the sow, though it is dividing the hoof, and cleaving the cleft of the hoof, yet the cud it bringeth not up -- unclean it [is] to you.
8 `Of their flesh ye do not eat, and against their carcase ye do not come -- unclean they [are] to you.
9 `This ye do eat of all which [are] in the waters; any one that hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the brooks, them ye do eat;
10 and any one that hath not fins and scales in the seas, and in the brooks, of any teeming creature of the waters, and of any creature which liveth, which [is] in the waters -- an abomination they [are] to you;
11 yea, an abomination they are to you; of their flesh ye do not eat, and their carcase ye abominate.
12 `Any one that hath not fins and scales in the waters -- an abomination it [is] to you.
13 `And these ye do abominate of the fowl; they are not eaten, an abomination they [are]: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
14 and the vulture, and the kite after its kind,
15 every raven after its kind,
16 and the owl, and the night-hawk, and the cuckoo, and the hawk after its kind,
17 and the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl,
18 and the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle,
19 and the stork, the heron after its kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.
20 `Every teeming creature which is flying, which is going on four -- an abomination it [is] to you.
21 `Only -- this ye do eat of any teeming thing which is flying, which is going on four, which hath legs above its feet, to move with them on the earth;
22 these of them ye do eat: the locust after its kind, and the bald locust after its kind, and the beetle after its kind, and the grasshopper after its kind;
23 and every teeming thing which is flying, which hath four feet -- an abomination it [is] to you.
24 `And by these ye are made unclean, any one who is coming against their carcase is unclean till the evening;
25 and anyone who is lifting up [aught] of their carcase doth wash his garments, and hath been unclean till the evening: --
26 even every beast which is dividing the hoof, and is not cloven-footed, and the cud is not bringing up -- unclean they [are] to you; any one who is coming against them is unclean.
27 `And any one going on its paws, among all the beasts which are going on four -- unclean they [are] to you; any one who is coming against their carcase is unclean until the evening;
28 and he who is lifting up their carcase doth wash his garments, and hath been unclean until the evening -- unclean they [are] to you.
29 `And this [is] to you the unclean among the teeming things which are teeming on the earth: the weasel, and the mouse, and the tortoise after its kind,
30 and the ferret, and the chameleon, and the lizard, and the snail, and the mole;
31 these [are] the unclean to you among all which are teeming; any one who is coming against them in their death is unclean till the evening.
32 `And anything on which any one of them falleth, in their death, is unclean, of any vessel of wood or garment or skin or sack, any vessel in which work is done is brought into water, and hath been unclean till the evening, then it hath been clean;
33 and any earthen vessel, into the midst of which [any] one of them falleth, all that [is] in its midst is unclean, and it ye do break.
34 `Of all the food which is eaten, that on which cometh [such] water, is unclean, and all drink which is drunk in any [such] vessel is unclean;
35 and anything on which [any] of their carcase falleth is unclean (oven or double pots), it is broken down, unclean they [are], yea, unclean they are to you.
36 `Only -- a fountain or pit, a collection of water, is clean, but that which is coming against their carcase is unclean;
37 and when [any] of their carcase falleth on any sown seed which is sown -- it [is] clean;
38 and when water is put on the seed, and [any] of its carcase hath fallen on it -- unclean it [is] to you.
39 `And when any of the beasts which are to you for food dieth, he who is coming against its carcase is unclean till the evening;
40 and he who is eating of its carcase doth wash his garments, and hath been unclean till the evening; and he who is lifting up its carcase doth wash his garments, and hath been unclean till the evening.
41 `And every teeming thing which is teeming on the earth is an abomination, it is not eaten;
42 any thing going on the belly, and any going on four, unto every multiplier of feet, to every teeming thing which is teeming on the earth -- ye do not eat them, for they [are] an abomination;
43 ye do not make yourselves abominable with any teeming thing which is teeming, nor do ye make yourselves unclean with them, so that ye have been unclean thereby.
44 `For I [am] Jehovah your God, and ye have sanctified yourselves, and ye have been holy, for I [am] holy; and ye do not defile your persons with any teeming thing which is creeping on the earth;
45 for I [am] Jehovah who am bringing you up out of the land of Egypt to become your God; and ye have been holy, for I [am] holy.
46 `This [is] a law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature which is moving in the waters, and of every creature which is teeming on the earth,
47 to make separation between the unclean and the pure, and between the beast that is eaten, and the beast that is not eaten.'
Leviticus 11:1-47 These are the living things which the Israelites may eat among all the animals on the earth. They may eat any animal that has hard and divided feet and chews its food again. But among those which chew their food again or have feet that are hard and divided, do not eat --- such as the camel, the rock badger, the rabbit for they chew the food again, but do not have feet that are hard and divided. They are unclean to them. Do not eat the pig. For it has feet that are hard and divided, but it does not chew its food again. It is unclean to them. 8 Do not eat their flesh or touch their dead bodies. They are unclean to you. These they may eat, of all that are in the water, that has fins and scales, in the seas or in the rivers. But whatever is in the seas and rivers that does not have fins and scales, among all the living things moving in the water, are to be hated. They may not eat their meat, and are to hate their dead bodies. Whatever is in the water does not have fins and scales will be hated by Israelites for food. Among flying animals not to be eaten: the eagle, the vulture, the buzzard, the kite, every kind of falcon, every kind of raven, the ostrich, the owl, the sea gull, every kind of hawk, the little owl, the cormorant, the big owl, the white owl, the pelican, the vulture that eats dead flesh, the stork, every kind of heron, the hoopoe and the bat. All bugs with wings and that walk on four legs are to be not eaten. But they may eat, among all the bugs with wings and that walk on all fours, those which have legs allowing them to jump on the ground. They may eat every kind of locust, every kind of destroying locust, every kind of cricket, and every kind of grasshopper.
Whoever touches their dead bodies and whoever picks up any of their dead bodies will wash his clothes and be unclean until that evening. Every animal that has a parted foot but not a divided foot, or that does not eat its food again, is unclean to you. Whoever touches them will be unclean. Whatever walks on its soft feet, among all the animals that walk on all fours, are unclean to you. Whoever touches their dead bodies and picks up their dead bodies will wash his clothes and be unclean until evening. They are unclean to Israelites. These animals are unclean to Israelites: the mole, the mouse, every kind of big lizard, the gecko, the crocodile, the lizard, the sand lizard, and the chameleon. Each piece of wood or clothing or skin or bag or anything used as you work, must be put in water. It will be unclean until that evening. If any falls into a clay pot, whatever is in the pot will be unclean --- break the pot. Any food that could be eaten but has water from such a pot on it will be unclean. And anything which could be drunk from any such pot will be unclean. Everything on which part of their dead body may fall will be unclean. A stove or a place for pots must be broken. They are unclean to you. But a well or a place holding water will be clean. But whoever touches a dead body will be unclean. If a part of their dead body falls on any seed which is to be planted, it is clean. But if water is put on the seed, and a body falls on it, it is unclean to you. If one of the animals dies which you have for food, the one who touches its dead body will be unclean until that evening. He who eats some of the dead body will wash his clothes and be unclean until that evening. And he who picks up its dead body will wash his clothes and be unclean until evening. Anything that moves around on the ground in large numbers is hated and is not to be eaten. They should not eat whatever moves on its stomach, or goes on four feet, or has many feet, among all the things that move around on the ground in large numbers. For they are hated. Do not make yourselves unclean by any of the small living things that move together on the ground, so you become unclean. For the Lord is their God. Set apart, and be holy. For God is holy. Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1 And Jehovah speaketh unto Moses and unto Aaron, saying unto them,
2 `Speak unto the sons of Israel, saying, This [is] the beast which ye do eat out of all the beasts which [are] on the earth:
3 any dividing a hoof, and cleaving the cleft of the hoofs, bringing up the cud, among the beasts, it ye do eat.
4 `Only, this ye do not eat -- of those bringing up the cud, and of those dividing the hoof -- the camel, though it is bringing up the cud, yet the hoof not dividing -- it [is] unclean to you;
5 and the rabbit, though it is bringing up the cud, yet the hoof it divideth not -- unclean it [is] to you;
6 and the hare, though it is bringing up the cud, yet the hoof hath not divided -- unclean it [is] to you;
7 and the sow, though it is dividing the hoof, and cleaving the cleft of the hoof, yet the cud it bringeth not up -- unclean it [is] to you.
8 `Of their flesh ye do not eat, and against their carcase ye do not come -- unclean they [are] to you.
9 `This ye do eat of all which [are] in the waters; any one that hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the brooks, them ye do eat;
10 and any one that hath not fins and scales in the seas, and in the brooks, of any teeming creature of the waters, and of any creature which liveth, which [is] in the waters -- an abomination they [are] to you;
11 yea, an abomination they are to you; of their flesh ye do not eat, and their carcase ye abominate.
12 `Any one that hath not fins and scales in the waters -- an abomination it [is] to you.
13 `And these ye do abominate of the fowl; they are not eaten, an abomination they [are]: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
14 and the vulture, and the kite after its kind,
15 every raven after its kind,
16 and the owl, and the night-hawk, and the cuckoo, and the hawk after its kind,
17 and the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl,
18 and the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle,
19 and the stork, the heron after its kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.
20 `Every teeming creature which is flying, which is going on four -- an abomination it [is] to you.
21 `Only -- this ye do eat of any teeming thing which is flying, which is going on four, which hath legs above its feet, to move with them on the earth;
22 these of them ye do eat: the locust after its kind, and the bald locust after its kind, and the beetle after its kind, and the grasshopper after its kind;
23 and every teeming thing which is flying, which hath four feet -- an abomination it [is] to you.
24 `And by these ye are made unclean, any one who is coming against their carcase is unclean till the evening;
25 and anyone who is lifting up [aught] of their carcase doth wash his garments, and hath been unclean till the evening: --
26 even every beast which is dividing the hoof, and is not cloven-footed, and the cud is not bringing up -- unclean they [are] to you; any one who is coming against them is unclean.
27 `And any one going on its paws, among all the beasts which are going on four -- unclean they [are] to you; any one who is coming against their carcase is unclean until the evening;
28 and he who is lifting up their carcase doth wash his garments, and hath been unclean until the evening -- unclean they [are] to you.
29 `And this [is] to you the unclean among the teeming things which are teeming on the earth: the weasel, and the mouse, and the tortoise after its kind,
30 and the ferret, and the chameleon, and the lizard, and the snail, and the mole;
31 these [are] the unclean to you among all which are teeming; any one who is coming against them in their death is unclean till the evening.
32 `And anything on which any one of them falleth, in their death, is unclean, of any vessel of wood or garment or skin or sack, any vessel in which work is done is brought into water, and hath been unclean till the evening, then it hath been clean;
33 and any earthen vessel, into the midst of which [any] one of them falleth, all that [is] in its midst is unclean, and it ye do break.
34 `Of all the food which is eaten, that on which cometh [such] water, is unclean, and all drink which is drunk in any [such] vessel is unclean;
35 and anything on which [any] of their carcase falleth is unclean (oven or double pots), it is broken down, unclean they [are], yea, unclean they are to you.
36 `Only -- a fountain or pit, a collection of water, is clean, but that which is coming against their carcase is unclean;
37 and when [any] of their carcase falleth on any sown seed which is sown -- it [is] clean;
38 and when water is put on the seed, and [any] of its carcase hath fallen on it -- unclean it [is] to you.
39 `And when any of the beasts which are to you for food dieth, he who is coming against its carcase is unclean till the evening;
40 and he who is eating of its carcase doth wash his garments, and hath been unclean till the evening; and he who is lifting up its carcase doth wash his garments, and hath been unclean till the evening.
41 `And every teeming thing which is teeming on the earth is an abomination, it is not eaten;
42 any thing going on the belly, and any going on four, unto every multiplier of feet, to every teeming thing which is teeming on the earth -- ye do not eat them, for they [are] an abomination;
43 ye do not make yourselves abominable with any teeming thing which is teeming, nor do ye make yourselves unclean with them, so that ye have been unclean thereby.
44 `For I [am] Jehovah your God, and ye have sanctified yourselves, and ye have been holy, for I [am] holy; and ye do not defile your persons with any teeming thing which is creeping on the earth;
45 for I [am] Jehovah who am bringing you up out of the land of Egypt to become your God; and ye have been holy, for I [am] holy.
46 `This [is] a law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature which is moving in the waters, and of every creature which is teeming on the earth,
47 to make separation between the unclean and the pure, and between the beast that is eaten, and the beast that is not eaten.'
LittleNipper wrote:5 and the rabbit, though it is bringing up the cud, yet the hoof it divideth not -- unclean it [is] to you; 6 and the hare, though it is bringing up the cud, yet the hoof hath not divided -- unclean it [is] to you; 7 and the sow, though it is dividing the hoof, and cleaving the cleft of the hoof, yet the cud it bringeth not up -- unclean it [is] to you.
Rabbit and hare don't bring up (chew) the cud - and please don't tell me that the Bible is not a biology schoolbook. It is, in every place it takes the wrong road of the schoolbooks.
The KJV says coney, not rabbit. The Hungarian (Károli) Bible says hamster (hörcsög). Do we know everything about words of a primitive tribe lived on the skirt of the map, two (four?) thousand years before?
Is sow Suidae (pig family)? Pig? Or swine - as in KJV? What is the difference - for us, non-biologist, non-hebrew-speaker average bible-readers?
by the way I eat everything tasty. There is no Mormon, jew, amish, JW, Krishna or whatever prophet of the world who can limit what should I eat and what shouldn't.
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco - To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
LittleNipper wrote:5 and the rabbit, though it is bringing up the cud, yet the hoof it divideth not -- unclean it [is] to you; 6 and the hare, though it is bringing up the cud, yet the hoof hath not divided -- unclean it [is] to you; 7 and the sow, though it is dividing the hoof, and cleaving the cleft of the hoof, yet the cud it bringeth not up -- unclean it [is] to you.
Rabbit and hare don't bring up (chew) the cud - and please don't tell me that the Bible is not a biology schoolbook. It is, in every place it takes the wrong road of the schoolbooks.
The KJV says coney, not rabbit. The Hungarian (Károli) Bible says hamster (hörcsög). Do we know everything about words of a primitive tribe lived on the skirt of the map, two (four?) thousand years before?
Is sow Suidae (pig family)? Pig? Or swine - as in KJV? What is the difference - for us, non-biologist, non-hebrew-speaker average bible-readers?
by the way I eat everything tasty. There is no Mormon, jew, amish, JW, Krishna or whatever prophet of the world who can limit what should I eat and what shouldn't.
Apparently, we now know that rabbits will select and eat of their own poop pellets (redigesting them for more nutients). It is possible that a TRANSLATION mistake occurred; however, it in no way takes from the intent of the scripture. I am just very happy that Christ became the LAW for those who put their faith and trust in HIIM. Christians no longer need to keep dietary rituals to demonstrate holy and non-holy.