6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are a children of the most High
If my children are contingent on me, how are god's children not contingent on him?
Traditional Judeo-Chrstian-Muslim theology says they are all contingent. LDS theology says they are all necessary, or essentially necessary, and therefore truly capable of independent choice -- just like gods must be -- and have the potential of becoming gods in future.
One might want to add here a plug for Terryl & Fiona Givens, The Weeping God, which does a commendable job of discussing LDS theology in a very beautiful and accessible manner.
Robert, I'm puzzled with this notion that Mormon theology holds that we are necessary beings. Here's a quote from the LDS.org on God:
The Father of Our Spirits
One of life's great questions is "Who am I?" A beloved Primary song helps even little children answer this question. We sing, "I am a child of God, and he has sent me here." The knowledge that we are children of God provides strength, comfort, and hope.
We are all literally children of God, spiritually begotten in the premortal life. As His children, we can be assured that we have divine, eternal potential and that He will help us in our sincere efforts to reach that potential.
Doesn't [that] make us contingent beings within LDS theology?
[Last sentence edited to supply missing word.]
Last edited by Guest on Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”
― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are a children of the most High
If my children are contingent on me, how are god's children not contingent on him?
In Mormon theology, your children are not contingent on you, just as the spirit children of God are not contingent upon Him. In each case, they are necessary beings, and are all able to exercise free agency.
Brad Hudson wrote:Robert, I'm puzzled with this notion that Mormon theology holds that we are necessary beings. Here's a quote from the LDS.org on God:
The Father of Our Spirits
One of life's great questions is "Who am I?" A beloved Primary song helps even little children answer this question. We sing, "I am a child of God, and he has sent me here." The knowledge that we are children of God provides strength, comfort, and hope.
We are all literally children of God, spiritually begotten in the premortal life. As His children, we can be assured that we have divine, eternal potential and that He will help us in our sincere efforts to reach that potential.
Doesn't make us contingent beings within LDS theology?
No, this doesn't indicate in any way that we are contingent beings.
The problem is well understood within mainstream Judeo-Christian-Muslim tradition: For example, Evangelical Christian pastors such as Chuck Smith of Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa, California, readily admit the incompatibility of God’s absolute sovereignty on the one hand with human responsibility (choice) on the other – allowing, however, that the human perception of discontinuity and contrast in this case may be fully explicable in divine terms, i.e., he makes it a mystery and kicks the problem further down the road for others to deal with!! However, no adequate explanation has ever been offered from within mainstream tradition. Only LDS tradition offers a reasonable explanation.
Yeah, I did some reading on the issue before I asked. I suspect you and I are giving "begotten" different meanings. Where are you finding the LDS doctrine that we are necessary beings?
“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”
― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
I believe he is going off of the idea that the intelligences from which the pre existence spirits are created are eternal and co eternal with god. Hence necessary and not contingent.
Last edited by Guest on Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It is better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener at war.
Some of us, on the other hand, actually prefer a religion that includes some type of correlation with reality. ~Bill Hamblin
SteelHead wrote:He is going off of the idea that the intelligences from which the pre existence spirits are created are eternal and co eternal with god. Hence necessary and not contingent.
Thanks, I get it now. Do you know what in LDS theology he relies on in concluding we are necessary beings?
ETA: Nevermind. this article looks like a helpful source.
ETA: The article was really interesting. It also explains why this concept was new to me. I left the church at a time when what Ostler described as neo-orthoxy was taught. I was taught that my being was created in the spirit world. What the "intellegences" were and how they related were put in the "mysteries" bin.
“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”
― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
SteelHead wrote:I believe he is going off of the idea that the intelligences from which the pre existence spirits are created are eternal and co eternal with god. Hence necessary and not contingent.
Correct. We have no beginning, and there shall be no end.