Bible verse by verse

[_Tobin]

I think you make it up as you go along, lol.

I don't have to make things up. The truth is often stranger than fiction.

[_Albion]

When you can show me any kind of scriptural support for the Mormon ideas you sometimes espouse then we can talk. Till then there's nothing to discuss.

[_Tobin]

When you can show me any kind of scriptural support for the Mormon ideas you sometimes espouse then we can talk. Till then there's nothing to discuss.

Sure - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degrees_of_glory

"The nature of the other two degrees within the Celestial Kingdom have not been described, except to say that the people who go there will become "ministering angels".

That's you, so read up. Also, just so you remember, I like honey in my tea and creases in my pants when you press them.

[_LittleNipper]

When you can show me any kind of scriptural support for the Mormon ideas you sometimes espouse then we can talk. Till then there's nothing to discuss.

Sure - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degrees_of_glory

"The nature of the other two degrees within the Celestial Kingdom have not been described, except to say that the people who go there will become "ministering angels".

That's you, so read up. Also, just so you remember, I like honey in my tea and creases in my pants when you press them.

Well, this thread is the Bible verse by verse; however, I will let you stew with one thought on this "little" marriage topic sideline... Do you really imagine that even the Apostles of Jesus, who were not married in accord with Mormon rituals will be servants to Joseph Smith..? This seems rather odd, especially when the Apostles got into a big tiff over who would sit next to Christ in heaven. Think about that little problem for a while...

[Guest]

Numbers 5:1-31 The Lord gave instructions to the people of Israel to remove from camp anyone having a skin disease or a discharge, or who has become ceremonially unclean by touching a dead person. This command applies to both men and women. Remove them so they will not defile the camp where God lives among them.

Then the Lord Give the following instructions to the people of Israel: If any of the people betray the Lord by doing wrong to another person, they are guilty. They must confess their sin and make full restitution for what they have done, adding an additional 20 percent and returning it to the person who was wronged. If the person who was wronged is dead, and there are no relatives, the payment belongs to the Lord and must be given to the priest. Those who are guilty must also bring a ram as a sacrifice, and they will be purified and made right with the Lord. All the sacred offerings that the Israelites bring to a priest will belong to him. Each priest may keep all the sacred donations that he receives.

Suppose a man’s wife goes astray, and she is unfaithful to her husband and has sex with another man, but neither her husband nor anyone else knows about it. She has defiled herself, even though there was no witness and she was not caught in the act. If her husband becomes jealous and is suspicious of his wife and needs to know whether or not she has defiled herself, the husband must bring his wife to the priest, and an offering of two quarts of barley flour to be presented on her behalf. Do not mix it with olive oil or frankincense, for it is a jealousy offering—an offering to prove whether or not she is guilty.The priest will then present her to stand trial before the Lord. He must take some holy water in a clay jar and pour into it dust he has taken from the Tabernacle floor. The priest must unbind her hair and place in her hands the offering of proof for her to drink... The priest will then put the woman under oath. If no other man has had sex with her, she will be immune from the effects of the bitter water that brings on the curse. But if she has gone astray being unfaithful to her husband, the Lord’s curse is upon her and she will be infertile. This is the ritual law for dealing with suspicion. If a woman goes astray and defiles herself while under her husband’s authority, or if a man becomes jealous and is suspicious that his wife has been unfaithful, the husband must present his wife before the Lord, and the priest will apply this entire ritual law to her. The husband will be innocent of any guilt in this matter, but his wife will be held accountable for her sin.


Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

1 And Jehovah speaketh unto Moses, saying,

2 `Command the sons of Israel, and they send out of the camp every leper, and every one with an issue, and every one defiled by a body;

3 from male unto female ye do send out; unto the outside of the camp ye do send them; and they defile not their camps in the midst of which I do tabernacle.'

4 And the sons of Israel do so, and they send them out unto the outside of the camp; as Jehovah hath spoken unto Moses so have the sons of Israel done.

5 And Jehovah speaketh unto Moses, saying,

6 `Speak unto the sons of Israel, Man or woman, when they do any of the sins of man, by committing a trespass against Jehovah, and that person [is] guilty,

7 and they have confessed their sin which they have done, then he hath restored his guilt in its principal, and its fifth is adding to it, and hath given [it] to him in reference to whom he hath been guilty.

8 `And if the man have no redeemer to restore the guilt to, the guilt which is restored [is] Jehovah's, the priest's, apart from the ram of the atonements, whereby he maketh atonement for him.

9 `And every heave-offering of all the holy things of the sons of Israel, which they bring near to the priest, becometh his;

10 and any man's hallowed things become his; that which any man giveth to the priest becometh his.'

11 And Jehovah speaketh unto Moses, saying,

12 `Speak unto the sons of Israel, and thou hast said unto them, When any man's wife turneth aside, and hath committed against him a trespass,

13 and a man hath lain with her [with] the seed of copulation, and it hath been hid from the eyes of her husband, and concealed, and she hath been defiled, and there is no witness against her, and she hath not been caught,

14 and a spirit of jealousy hath passed over him, and he hath been jealous of his wife, and she hath been defiled; -- or, a spirit of jealousy hath passed over him, and he hath been jealous of his wife, and she hath not been defiled --

15 `Then hath the man brought in his wife unto the priest, and he hath brought in her offering for her, a tenth of the ephah of barley meal, he doth not pour on it oil, nor doth he put on it frankincense, for it [is] a present of jealousy, a present of memorial, causing remembrance of iniquity.

16 `And the priest hath brought her near, and hath caused her to stand before Jehovah,

17 and the priest hath taken holy water in an earthen vessel, and of the dust which is on the floor of the tabernacle doth the priest take, and hath put [it] into the water,

18 and the priest hath caused the woman to stand before Jehovah, and hath uncovered the woman's head, and hath given into her hands the present of the memorial, it [is] a present of jealousy, and in the hand of the priest are the bitter waters which cause the curse.

19 `And the priest hath caused her to swear, and hath said unto the woman, If no man hath lain with thee, and if thou hast not turned aside [to] uncleanness under thy husband, be free from these bitter waters which cause the curse;

20 and thou, if thou hast turned aside under thy husband, and if thou hast been defiled, and any man doth give his copulation to thee besides thy husband --

21 (then the priest hath caused the woman to swear with an oath of execration, and the priest hath said to the woman) -- Jehovah doth give thee for an execration, and for a curse, in the midst of thy people, in Jehovah's giving thy thigh to fall, and thy belly to swell,

22 and these waters which cause the curse have gone into thy bowels, to cause the belly to swell, and the thigh to fall; and the woman hath said, Amen, Amen.

23 `And the priest hath written these execrations in a book, and hath blotted [them] out with the bitter waters,

24 and hath caused the woman to drink the bitter waters which cause the curse, and the waters which cause the curse have entered into her for bitter things.

25 `And the priest hath taken out of the hand of the woman the present of jealousy, and hath waved the present before Jehovah, and hath brought it near unto the altar;

26 and the priest hath taken a handful of the present, its memorial, and hath made perfume on the altar, and afterwards doth cause the woman to drink the water:

27 yea, he hath caused her to drink the water, and it hath come to pass, if she hath been defiled, and doth commit a trespass against her husband, that the waters which cause the curse have gone into her for bitter things, and her belly hath swelled, and her thigh hath fallen, and the woman hath become an execration in the midst of her people.

28 `And if the woman hath not been defiled, and is clean, then she hath been acquitted, and hath been sown [with] seed.

29 `This [is] the law of jealousies, when a wife turneth aside under her husband, and hath been defiled,

30 or when a spirit of jealousy passeth over a man, and he hath been jealous of his wife, then he hath caused the woman to stand before Jehovah, and the priest hath done to her all this law,

31 and the man hath been acquitted from iniquity, and that woman doth bear her iniquity.'

[_Tobin]

Well, this thread is the Bible verse by verse; however, I will let you stew with one thought on this "little" marriage topic sideline... Do you really imagine that even the Apostles of Jesus, who were not married in accord with Mormon rituals will be servants to Joseph Smith..? This seems rather odd, especially when the Apostles got into a big tiff over who would sit next to Christ in heaven. Think about that little problem for a while...

Like most of the problems you have, it is merely a problem of your own making and mostly in your own head. Perhaps you aren't aware of this, but the dead can be sealed here on earth too under Mormonism. So the Apostles will be just fine. You - not so much.

[_LittleNipper]

Well, this thread is the Bible verse by verse; however, I will let you stew with one thought on this "little" marriage topic sideline... Do you really imagine that even the Apostles of Jesus, who were not married in accord with Mormon rituals will be servants to Joseph Smith..? This seems rather odd, especially when the Apostles got into a big tiff over who would sit next to Christ in heaven. Think about that little problem for a while...

Like most of the problems you have, it is merely a problem of your own making and mostly in your own head. Perhaps you aren't aware of this, but the dead can be sealed here on earth too under Mormonism. So the Apostles will be just fine. You - not so much.

Most problems we have are of our own making, Mormon's not withstanding. The Apostles and myself are sealed through Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 1:13 ►


New International Version (©2011)
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

[_LittleNipper]

Numbers 6:1-27 The Lord gave the following instructions to the people of Israel. If anyone takes the special vow of a Nazirite, setting themselves apart to the Lord in a special way, they must give up wine and other alcoholic drinks. They must not use vinegar made from wine or from other alcoholic drinks, they must not drink fresh grape juice, and they must not eat grapes or raisins -- grape seeds or skins. They must never cut their hair throughout the time of their vow, for they are holy and set apart to the Lord. Until the time of their vow has been fulfilled, they must let their hair grow long. 6 And they must not go near a dead body during the entire period of their vow to the Lord. Even if the dead person is their own father, mother, brother, or sister, they must not defile themselves, for the hair on their head is the symbol of their separation to God. This requirement applies as long as they are set apart to the Lord. If someone falls dead beside them, the hair they have dedicated will be defiled. They must wait for seven days and then shave their heads. Then they will be cleansed from their defilement. On the eighth day they must bring two turtledoves or two young pigeons to the priest at the entrance of the Tabernacle. The priest will offer one of the birds for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. In this way, he will purify them from the guilt they incurred through contact with the dead body. Then they must reaffirm their commitment and let their hair begin to grow again. The days of their vow that were completed before their defilement no longer count. They must rededicate themselves to the Lord as a Nazirite for the full term of their vow, and each must bring a one-year-old male lamb for a guilt offering.

At the conclusion of their time of separation as Nazirites, they must each go to the entrance of the Tabernacle and offer their sacrifices to the Lord: a one-year-old male lamb without defect for a burnt offering, a one-year-old female lamb without defect for a sin offering, a ram without defect for a peace offering, a basket of bread made without yeast—cakes of choice flour mixed with olive oil and wafers spread with olive oil—along with their prescribed grain offerings and liquid offerings. The priest will present these offerings before the Lord: first the sin offering and the burnt offering; then the ram for a peace offering, along with the basket of bread made without yeast. The priest must also present the prescribed grain offering and liquid offering to the Lord.

The Nazirites will shave their heads at the entrance of the Tabernacle. They will take the hair that had been dedicated and place it on the fire beneath the peace-offering sacrifice. After the Nazirite’s head has been shaved, the priest will take for each of them the boiled shoulder of the ram, and he will take from the basket a cake and a wafer made without yeast. He will put them all into the Nazirite’s hands. Then the priest will lift them up as a special offering before the Lord. These are holy portions for the priest, along with the breast of the special offering and the thigh of the sacred offering that are lifted up before the Lord. After this ceremony the Nazirites may again drink wine. And they must be careful to do whatever they vowed when they set themselves apart


Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

1 And Jehovah speaketh unto Moses, saying,

2 `Speak unto the sons of Israel, and thou hast said unto them, When a man or woman doeth singularly, by vowing a vow of a Nazarite, to be separate to Jehovah;

3 from wine and strong drink he doth keep separate; vinegar of wine, and vinegar of strong drink he doth not drink, and any juice of grapes he doth not drink, and grapes moist or dry he doth not eat;

4 all days of his separation, of anything which is made of the wine-vine, from kernels even unto husk, he doth not eat.

5 `All days of the vow of his separation a razor doth not pass over his head; till the fulness of the days which he doth separate to Jehovah he is holy; grown up hath the upper part of the hair of his head.

6 `All days of his keeping separate to Jehovah, near a dead person he doth not go;

7 for his father, or for his mother, for his brother, or for his sister -- he is not unclean for them at their death, for the separation of his God [is] on his head;

8 all days of his separation he [is] holy to Jehovah.

9 `And when the dead dieth beside him in an instant, suddenly, and he hath defiled the head of his separation, then he hath shaved his head in the day of his cleansing; on the seventh day he doth shave it,

10 and on the eighth day he bringeth in two turtle-doves or two young pigeons unto the priest, unto the opening of the tent of meeting,

11 and the priest hath prepared one for a sin-offering, and one for a burnt-offering, and hath made atonement for him, because of that which he hath sinned by the body, and he hath hallowed his head on that day;

12 and he hath separated to Jehovah the days of his separation, and he hath brought in a lamb, a son of a year, for a guilt-offering, and the former days are fallen, for his separation hath been defiled.

13 `And this [is] the law of the Nazarite; in the day of the fulness of the days of his separation doth [one] bring him in unto the opening of the tent of meeting,

14 and he hath brought near his offering to Jehovah, one he-lamb, a son of a year, a perfect one, for a burnt-offering, and one she-lamb, a daughter of a year, a perfect one, for a sin-offering, and one ram, a perfect one, for peace-offerings,

15 and a basket of unleavened things of flour, cakes mixed with oil, and thin cakes of unleavened things anointed with oil, and their present, and their libations.

16 `And the priest hath brought [them] near before Jehovah, and hath made his sin-offering and his burnt-offering;

17 and the ram he maketh a sacrifice of peace-offerings to Jehovah, besides the basket of unleavened things; and the priest hath made its present and its libation.

18 `And the Nazarite hath shaved (at the opening of the tent of meeting) the head of his separation, and hath taken the hair of the head of his separation, and hath put [it] on the fire which [is] under the sacrifice of the peace-offerings.

19 `And the priest hath taken the boiled shoulder from the ram, and one unleavened cake out of the basket, and one thin unleavened cake, and hath put on the palms of the Nazarite after his shaving his separation;

20 and the priest hath waved them, a wave-offering before Jehovah; it [is] holy to the priest, besides the breast of the wave-offering, and besides the leg of the heave-offering; and afterwards doth the Nazarite drink wine.

21 `This [is] the law of the Nazarite, who voweth his offering to Jehovah for his separation, apart from that which his hand attaineth; according to his vow which he voweth so he doth by the law of his separation.'

22 And Jehovah speaketh unto Moses, saying,

23 `Speak unto Aaron, and unto his sons, saying, Thus ye do bless the sons of Israel, saying to them,

24 `Jehovah bless thee and keep thee;

25 `Jehovah cause His face to shine upon thee, and favour thee;

26 `Jehovah lift up His countenance upon thee, and appoint for thee -- peace.

27 `And they have put My name upon the sons of Israel, and I -- I do bless them.'

[_Tobin]

Most problems we have are of our own making, Mormon's not withstanding. The Apostles and myself are sealed through Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 1:13 ►


New International Version (©2011)
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

Really? I don't know what is funnier (or sadder)? Having the delusion that one is comparable and equivalent to the apostles or the delusion that one is 'sealed' and presumably saved by Jesus Christ (as if LittleNipper could command Jesus Christ around like a toy doll). I think when you die and meet your Maker LittleNipper, you are in for a world of disappointment when you find out that what you believe does not even remotely correspond to the reality of the situation.

[_Albion]

Wiki is Tobin's scriptural response? I wouldn't normally post to a site but if Wiki is all he has then www.letusreason.org/Biblexp130.htm
is as good a response as any.