LittleNipper wrote: God has never allowed gay couples the ability to consummate their union.
Well, The U.S. Supreme Court has.
I know of no homosexual couple capable of begetting a baby without the inclusion of someone of the opposite sex. So they are either infertile or their union is of no God ordained value.
LittleNipper wrote:A person who is a drunk is a slave to drink. A person who must have his fix is a slave to drugs. A person who smokes is a slave to nicotine. A person who gets tattooed is a slave to decoration and pain... etc....
A person who makes us tired with archaic, obsolete, overgone - many times senseless, atrocious, inhuman, tyrannic, savage - stories of transcended dark history of humanity is a slave. Period. Complete my sentence as wanted.
Check the name of the picture... by the way.
Sounds to me that you are painting a picture of postmodern society. Perhaps you think humanity has value without God. I feel that a man without God is a slave to the grave and nothing better.
Numbers 33:1-56 Moses kept a historic record at the Lord’s direction. They set out from the city of Rameses defiantly in early spring—on the fifteenth day of the first month[a]—on the morning after the first Passover celebration --- while the Egyptians were burying all their firstborn sons. The Lord had defeated the gods of Egypt. After leaving Rameses, the Israelites set up camp at Succoth. They left Succoth for Etham on the edge of the wilderness. They left Etham and turned back toward Pi-hahiroth, opposite Baal-zephon, and camped near Migdol. They left Pi-hahiroth and crossed the Red Sea into the wilderness beyond --- traveling for three days into the Etham wilderness and camped at Marah. They left Marah and camped at Elim, where there were twelve springs of water and seventy palm trees. They left Elim, camping beside the Red Sea. They left the wilderness for Dophkah. They left Dophkah for Alush. They left Alush for Rephidim where there was no water for the people to drink. They left Rephidim for the wilderness of Sinai. They left the wilderness of Sinai for Kibroth-hattaavah. They left Kibroth-hattaavah for Hazeroth. They left Hazeroth for Rithmah. They left Rithmah for Rimmon-perez. They left Rimmon-perez for Libnah. They left Libnah for Rissah.They left Rissah for Kehelathah. They left Kehelathah for Mount Shepher.They left Mount Shepher for Haradah. They left Haradah for Makheloth.They left Makheloth for Tahath. They left Tahath for Terah. They left Terah for Mithcah. They left Mithcah for Hashmonah. They left Hashmonah for Moseroth. They left Moseroth for Bene-jaakan. They left Bene-jaakan and camped at Hor-haggidgad. They left Hor-haggidgad for Jotbathah. They left Jotbathah for Abronah. They left Abronah for Ezion-geber. They left Ezion-geber for Kadesh in wilderness of Zin. They left Kadesh for Mount Hor -- the border of Edom.
While at the foot of Mount Hor (in midsummer, on the first day of the fifth month of the fortieth year after Israel’s departure from Egypt), Aaron the priest (123 years old) was directed by the Lord to go up the mountain, and there died. Canaanite king of Arad, who lived in the Negev in the land of Canaan, heard that the people of Israel were approaching his land.
The Israelites left Mount Hor for Zalmonah. They left Zalmonah for Punon. They left Punon for Oboth. They left Oboth for Iye-abarim -- the border of Moab. They left Iye-abarim for Dibon-gad. They left Dibon-gad for Almon-diblathaim. They left Almon-diblathaim for the mountains east of the river, near Mount Nebo. They left the mountains east of the river for the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho. Along the Jordan River they camped from Beth-jeshimoth as far as the meadows of Acacia on the plains of Moab. While they were camped there, near the Jordan River on the plains of Moab opposite Jericho, the Lord said to Moses,“Give the following instructions to the people of Israel: When you cross the Jordan River into the land of Canaan, you must drive out all the people living there. You must destroy all their carved and molten images and demolish all their pagan shrines. Take possession of the land and settle in it, because I have given it to you to occupy. You must distribute the land among the clans by sacred lot and in proportion to their size. A larger portion of land will be allotted to each of the larger clans, and a smaller portion will be allotted to each of the smaller clans. The decision of the sacred lot is final. In this way, the portions of land will be divided among your ancestral tribes.
But if you fail to drive out the people who live in the land, those who remain will be like splinters in your eyes and thorns in your sides. They will harass you in the land where you live. And I will do to you what I had planned to do to them.”
Young's Literal Translation (YLT) 1 These [are] journeys of the sons of Israel who have come out of the land of Egypt, by their hosts, by the hand of Moses and Aaron;
2 and Moses writeth their outgoings, by their journeys, by the command of Jehovah; and these [are] their journeys, by their outgoings:
3 And they journey from Rameses in the first month, on the fifteenth day of the first month, on the morrow of the passover have the sons of Israel gone out with a high hand, before the eyes of all the Egyptians --
4 and the Egyptians are burying those whom Jehovah hath smitten among them, every first-born, and on their gods hath Jehovah done judgments --
5 and the sons of Israel journey from Rameses, and encamp in Succoth.
6 And they journey from Succoth, and encamp in Etham, which [is] in the extremity of the wilderness;
7 and they journey from Etham, and turn back on Pi-Hahiroth, which [is] on the front of Baal-Zephon, and they encamp before Migdol.
8 And they journey from Pi-Hahiroth, and pass over through the midst of the sea, into the wilderness, and go a journey of three days in the wilderness of Etham, and encamp in Marah.
9 And they journey from Marah, and come in to Elim, and in Elim [are] twelve fountains of waters, and seventy palm trees, and they encamp there;
10 and they journey from Elim, and encamp by the Red Sea.
11 And they journey from the Red Sea, and encamp in the wilderness of Sin;
12 and they journey from the wilderness of Sin, and encamp in Dophkah.
13 And they journey from Dophkah, and encamp in Alush;
14 and they journey from Alush, and encamp in Rephidim; and there was there no water for the people to drink.
15 And they journey from Rephidim, and encamp in the wilderness of Sinai;
16 and they journey from the wilderness of Sinai, and encamp in Kibroth-Hattaavah.
17 And they journey from Kibroth-Hattaavah, and encamp in Hazeroth;
18 and they journey from Hazeroth, and encamp in Rithmah.
19 And they journey from Rithmah, and encamp in Rimmon-Parez;
20 and they journey from Rimmon-Parez, and encamp in Libnah.
21 And they journey from Libnah, and encamp in Rissah;
22 and they journey from Rissah, and encamp in Kehelathah.
23 And they journey from Kehelathah, and encamp in mount Shapher;
24 and they journey from mount Shapher, and encamp in Haradah.
25 And they journey from Haradah, and encamp in Makheloth;
26 and they journey from Makheloth, and encamp in Tahath.
27 And they journey from Tahath, and encamp in Tarah;
28 and they journey from Tarah, and encamp in Mithcah.
29 And they journey from Mithcah, and encamp in Hashmonah;
30 and they journey from Hashmonah, and encamp in Moseroth.
31 And they journey from Moseroth, and encamp in Bene-Jaakan;
32 and they journey from Bene-Jaakan, and encamp at Hor-Hagidgad.
33 And they journey from Hor-Hagidgad, and encamp in Jotbathah;
34 and they journey from Jotbathah, and encamp in Ebronah.
35 And they journey from Ebronah, and encamp in Ezion-Gaber;
36 and they journey from Ezion-Gaber, and encamp in the wilderness of Zin, which [is] Kadesh.
37 And they journey from Kadesh, and encamp in mount Hor, in the extremity of the land of Edom.
38 And Aaron the priest goeth up unto mount Hor, by the command of Jehovah, and dieth there, in the fortieth year of the going out of the sons of Israel from the land of Egypt, in the fifth month, on the first of the month;
39 and Aaron [is] a son of a hundred and twenty and three years in his dying in mount Hor.
40 And the Canaanite -- king Arad -- who is dwelling in the south, in the land of Canaan, heareth of the coming of the sons of Israel.
41 And they journey from mount Hor, and encamp in Zalmonah;
42 and they journey from Zalmonah, and encamp in Punon.
43 And they journey from Punon, and encamp in Oboth;
44 and they journey from Oboth, and encamp in Ije-Abarim, in the border of Moab.
45 And they journey from Iim, and encamp in Dibon-Gad;
46 and they journey from Dibon-Gad, and encamp in Almon-Diblathaim.
47 And they journey from Almon-Diblathaim, and encamp in the mountains of Abarim, before Nebo;
48 and they journey from the mountains of Abarim, and encamp in the plains of Moab, by Jordan, [near] Jericho.
49 And they encamp by the Jordan from Beth-Jeshimoth, unto Abel-Shittim, in the plains of Moab.
50 And Jehovah speaketh unto Moses, in the plains of Moab, by Jordan, [near] Jericho, saying,
51 `Speak unto the sons of Israel, and thou hast said unto them, When ye are passing over the Jordan unto the land of Canaan,
52 then ye have dispossessed all the inhabitants of the land from before you, and have destroyed all their imagery, yea, all their molten images ye destroy, and all their high places ye lay waste,
53 and ye have possessed the land, and dwelt in it, for to you I have given the land -- to possess it.
54 `And ye have inherited the land by lot, by your families; to the many ye increase their inheritance, and to the few ye diminish their inheritance; whither the lot goeth out to him, it is his; by the tribes of your fathers ye inherit.
55 `And if ye do not dispossess the inhabitants of the land from before you, then it hath been, those whom ye let remain of them, [are] for pricks in your eyes, and for thorns in your sides, and they have distressed you on the land in which ye are dwelling,
56 and it hath come to pass, as I thought to do to them -- I do to you.'
Numbers 34:1-29 Boundaries of Canaan per God are as follows: Southern side will include some of the Desert of Zin along the border of Edom. Southern boundary will start in the east from the southern end of the Dead Sea, 4 cross south of Scorpion Pass, continue on to Zin and go south of Kadesh Barnea. Then it will go to Hazar Addar and over to Azmon, where it will turn, join the Wadi of Egypt and end at the Mediterranean Sea. western boundary will be along the Mediterranean Sea. Northern boundary will reach from the Mediterranean Sea to Mount Hor and from Mount Hor to Lebo Hamath. Then the boundary will go to Zedad, continue to Ziphron and end at Hazar Enan. The eastern boundary will run from Hazar Enan to Shepham, go down from Shepham to Riblah on the east side of Ain and continue along the slopes east of the Sea of Galilee. Then the boundary will go down along the Jordan and end at the Dead Sea.
Per Moses, this land is to be assigned by lot. The Lord ordered that it be given to the nine and a half tribes, because the tribe of Reuben, the tribe of Gad and the half-tribe of Manasseh have received their inheritance --- receiving their inheritance east of the Jordan across from Jericho, toward the sunrise. The Lord gave Moses the names of the men who are to assign the land as an inheritance: Eleazar the priest and Joshua son of Nun. And, one leader from each tribe to help assign the land named as follows:
Caleb son of Jephunneh, from the tribe of Judah;
Shemuel son of Ammihud, from the tribe of Simeon;
Elidad son of Kislon, from the tribe of Benjamin;
Bukki son of Jogli, the leader from the tribe of Dan;
Hanniel son of Ephod, the leader from the tribe of Manasseh son of Joseph;
Kemuel son of Shiphtan, the leader from the tribe of Ephraim son of Joseph;
Elizaphan son of Parnak, leader from the tribe of Zebulun;
Paltiel son of Azzan, the leader from the tribe of Issachar;
Ahihud son of Shelomi, the leader from the tribe of Asher;
Pedahel son of Ammihud, the leader from the tribe of Naphtali.”
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1 And Jehovah speaketh unto Moses, saying,
2 `Command the sons of Israel, and thou hast said unto them, When ye are coming in unto the land of Canaan -- this [is] the land which falleth to you by inheritance, the land of Canaan, by its borders -- 3 then hath the south quarter been to you from the wilderness of Zin, by the sides of Edom, yea, the south border hath been to you from the extremity of the Salt Sea, eastward;
4 and the border hath turned round to you from the south to the ascent of Akrabbim, and hath passed on to Zin, and its outgoings have been from the south to Kadesh-Barnea, and it hath gone out at Hazar-Addar, and hath passed on to Azmon;
5 and the border hath turned round from Azmon to the brook of Egypt, and its outgoings have been at the sea.
6 `As to the west border, even the great sea hath been to you a border; this is to you the west border.
7 `And this is to you the north border: from the great sea ye mark out for yourselves mount Hor;
8 from mount Hor ye mark out to go in to Hamath, and the outgoings of the border have been to Zedad;
9 and the border hath gone out to Ziphron, and its outgoings have been at Hazar-Enan; this is to you the north border.
10 `And ye have marked out for yourselves for the border eastward, from Hazar-Enan to Shepham;
11 and the border hath gone down from Shepham to Riblah, on the east of Ain, and the border hath gone down, and hath smitten against the shoulder of the sea of Chinnereth eastward;
12 and the border hath gone down to the Jordan, and its outgoings have been at the Salt Sea; this is for you the land by its borders round about.'
13 And Moses commandeth the sons of Israel, saying, `This [is] the land which ye inherit by lot, which Jehovah hath commanded to give to the nine tribes and the half of the tribe;
14 for the tribe of the sons of Reuben have received, by the house of their fathers; and the tribe of the children of Gad, by the house of their fathers; and the half of the tribe of Manasseh have received their inheritance;
15 the two tribes and the half of the tribe have received their inheritance beyond the Jordan, [near] Jericho, eastward, at the [sun]-rising.'
16 And Jehovah speaketh unto Moses, saying,
17 `These [are] the names of the men who give to you the inheritance of the land: Eleazar the priest, and Joshua son of Nun,
18 and one prince -- one prince -- for a tribe ye do take to give the land by inheritance.
19 `And these [are] the names of the men: of the tribe of Judah, Caleb son of Jephunneh;
20 and of the tribe of the sons of Simeon, Shemuel son of Aminihud;
21 of the tribe of Benjamin, Elidad son of Chislon;
22 and of the tribe of the sons of Dan, the prince Bukki son of Jogli;
23 of the sons of Joseph, of the tribe of the sons of Manasseh, the prince Hanniel son of Ephod;
24 and of the tribe of the sons of Ephraim, the prince Kemuel son of Shiphtan;
25 and of the tribe of the sons of Zebulun, the prince Elizaphan son of Parnach;
26 and of the tribe of the sons of Issachar, the prince Paltiel son of Azzan;
27 and of the tribe of the sons of Asher, the prince Ahihud son of Shelomi;
28 and of the tribe of the sons of Naphtali, the prince Pedahel son of Ammihud.'
29 These [are] those whom Jehovah hath commanded to give the sons of Israel inheritance in the land of Canaan.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:34 am, edited 3 times in total.
Numbers 35:1-29 While Israel was camped beside the Jordan on the plains of Moab across from Jericho, the Lord said to Moses to command the people of Israel to give to the Levites from their property certain towns to live in, with the surrounding pasturelands. These towns will be for the Levites to live in, and surrounding lands will provide pasture for their livestock. Pastureland assigned to the Levites around these towns will extend 1,500 feet from the town walls in all direction. 3,000 feet outside the town walls in every direction—east, south, west, north—with the town at the center will serve as the larger pastureland for the towns. Six of the towns given the Levites will be cities of refuge, where a person who has accidentally killed someone can run for safety. They are to be given forty-eight towns with the surrounding pastureland. These towns will come from the property of the people of Israel. Larger tribes will give more towns to the Levites --- smaller tribes fewer. Israel is to designate cities of refuge to which people can run if they have killed someone accidentally. These cities will be places of protection from a dead person’s relatives who want to avenge the death. The slayer must not be put to death before being tried by the community. Three will be on the east side of the Jordan River and three on the west in the land of Canaan. These cities are for the protection of Israelites, foreigners living among you, and traveling merchants. Anyone who accidentally kills someone may go there for safety. If someone strikes and kills another person with a piece of iron, stone, or wooden object it is murder, and the murderer must be executed. The victim’s nearest relative is responsible for putting the murderer to death. When they meet, the avenger must put the murderer to death. If someone hates another person and pushes him or throws a dangerous object at him and he dies, it is murder. If someone hates another person and hits him with a fist and he dies, it is murder. In such cases, the avenger must put the murderer to death when they meet.
If someone pushes another person without having shown previous hostility, or throws something that unintentionally hits another person, or accidentally drops a huge stone on someone, though they were not enemies, and the person dies. The community must follow these regulations in making a judgment between the slayer and the avenger, the victim’s nearest relative: The community must protect the slayer from the avenger and must escort the slayer back to live in the city of refuge to which he fled. There he must remain until the death of the high priest, who was anointed with the sacred oil. If that slayer ever leaves the limits of the city of refuge, and the avenger finds him outside the city and kills him, it will not be considered murder. The slayer should have stayed inside the city of refuge until the death of the high priest. However, after the death of the high priest, the slayer may return to his own property. All murderers must be put to death, but only if evidence is presented by more than one witness. No one may be put to death on the testimony of only one witness. Israelites must never accept a ransom payment for the life of someone judged guilty of murder and subject to execution; murderers must always be put to death. They are never to accept a ransom payment from someone who has fled to a city of refuge. This will ensure that the land will not be polluted, for murder pollutes the land. No sacrifice except the execution of the murderer can purify the land from murder.
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1 And Jehovah speaketh unto Moses, saying,
2 `Command the sons of Israel, and thou hast said unto them, When ye are coming in unto the land of Canaan -- this [is] the land which falleth to you by inheritance, the land of Canaan, by its borders --
3 then hath the south quarter been to you from the wilderness of Zin, by the sides of Edom, yea, the south border hath been to you from the extremity of the Salt Sea, eastward;
4 and the border hath turned round to you from the south to the ascent of Akrabbim, and hath passed on to Zin, and its outgoings have been from the south to Kadesh-Barnea, and it hath gone out at Hazar-Addar, and hath passed on to Azmon;
5 and the border hath turned round from Azmon to the brook of Egypt, and its outgoings have been at the sea.
6 `As to the west border, even the great sea hath been to you a border; this is to you the west border.
7 `And this is to you the north border: from the great sea ye mark out for yourselves mount Hor;
8 from mount Hor ye mark out to go in to Hamath, and the outgoings of the border have been to Zedad;
9 and the border hath gone out to Ziphron, and its outgoings have been at Hazar-Enan; this is to you the north border.
10 `And ye have marked out for yourselves for the border eastward, from Hazar-Enan to Shepham;
11 and the border hath gone down from Shepham to Riblah, on the east of Ain, and the border hath gone down, and hath smitten against the shoulder of the sea of Chinnereth eastward;
12 and the border hath gone down to the Jordan, and its outgoings have been at the Salt Sea; this is for you the land by its borders round about.'
13 And Moses commandeth the sons of Israel, saying, `This [is] the land which ye inherit by lot, which Jehovah hath commanded to give to the nine tribes and the half of the tribe;
14 for the tribe of the sons of Reuben have received, by the house of their fathers; and the tribe of the children of Gad, by the house of their fathers; and the half of the tribe of Manasseh have received their inheritance;
15 the two tribes and the half of the tribe have received their inheritance beyond the Jordan, [near] Jericho, eastward, at the [sun]-rising.'
16 And Jehovah speaketh unto Moses, saying,
17 `These [are] the names of the men who give to you the inheritance of the land: Eleazar the priest, and Joshua son of Nun,
18 and one prince -- one prince -- for a tribe ye do take to give the land by inheritance.
19 `And these [are] the names of the men: of the tribe of Judah, Caleb son of Jephunneh;
20 and of the tribe of the sons of Simeon, Shemuel son of Aminihud;
21 of the tribe of Benjamin, Elidad son of Chislon;
22 and of the tribe of the sons of Dan, the prince Bukki son of Jogli;
23 of the sons of Joseph, of the tribe of the sons of Manasseh, the prince Hanniel son of Ephod;
24 and of the tribe of the sons of Ephraim, the prince Kemuel son of Shiphtan;
25 and of the tribe of the sons of Zebulun, the prince Elizaphan son of Parnach;
26 and of the tribe of the sons of Issachar, the prince Paltiel son of Azzan;
27 and of the tribe of the sons of Asher, the prince Ahihud son of Shelomi;
28 and of the tribe of the sons of Naphtali, the prince Pedahel son of Ammihud.'
29 These [are] those whom Jehovah hath commanded to give the sons of Israel inheritance in the land of Canaan.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
Numbers 36:1-13 Then the heads of the clans of Gilead—descendants of Makir, son of Manasseh, son of Joseph—came to Moses and the family leaders of Israel with a petition. They said, “Sir, the Lord instructed you to divide the land by sacred lot among the people of Israel. You were told by the Lord to give the grant of land owned by our brother Zelophehad to his daughters. But if they marry men from another tribe, their grants of land will go with them to the tribe into which they marry. The total area of our tribal land will be reduced. When the Year of Jubilee comes, their portion of land will be added to that of the new tribe, causing it to be lost forever to our ancestral tribe.” Moses gave the Israelites this command from the Lord: “The claim of the men of the tribe of Joseph is legitimate. This is what the Lord commands concerning the daughters of Zelophehad: Let them marry anyone they like, as long as it is within their own ancestral tribe. None of the territorial land may pass from tribe to tribe, for all the land given to each tribe must remain within the tribe to which it was first allotted. The daughters throughout the tribes of Israel who are in line to inherit property must marry within their tribe, so that all the Israelites will keep their ancestral property. No land grant may pass from one tribe to another; each tribe of Israel must keep its allotted portion of land.”
The daughters of Zelophehad: Mahlah, Tirzah, Hoglah, Milcah, and Noah all married cousins on their father’s side. They married into the clans of Manasseh son of Joseph. Thus, their inheritance of land remained within their ancestral tribe.
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1 And the heads of the fathers of the families of the sons of Gilead, son of Machir, son of Manasseh, of the families of the sons of Joseph, come near, and speak before Moses, and before the princes, heads of the fathers of the sons of Israel,
2 and say, Jehovah commanded my lord to give the land for inheritance by lot to the sons of Israel, and my lord hath been commanded by Jehovah to give the inheritance of Zelophehad our brother to his daughters.
3 `And -- they have been to one of the sons of the [other] tribes of the sons of Israel for wives, and their inheritance hath been withdrawn from the inheritance of our fathers, and hath been added to the inheritance of the tribe which is theirs, and from the lot of our inheritance it is withdrawn,
4 and if it is the jubilee of the sons of Israel, then hath their inheritance been added to the inheritance of the tribe which is theirs, and from the inheritance of the tribe of our fathers is their inheritance withdrawn.'
5 And Moses commandeth the sons of Israel, by the command of Jehovah, saying, `Rightly are the tribe of the sons of Joseph speaking;
6 this [is] the thing which Jehovah hath commanded concerning the daughters of Zelophehad, saying, To those good in their eyes let them be for wives; only, to a family of the tribe of their fathers let them be for wives;
7 and the inheritance of the sons of Israel doth not turn round from tribe unto tribe; for each to the inheritance of the tribe of his fathers, do the sons of Israel cleave.
8 `And every daughter possessing an inheritance, of the tribes of the sons of Israel, is to one of the family of the tribe of her father for a wife, so that the sons of Israel possess each the inheritance of his fathers,
9 and the inheritance doth not turn round from [one] tribe to another tribe; for each to his inheritance do they cleave, the tribes of the sons of Israel.'
10 As Jehovah hath commanded Moses, so have the daughters of Zelophehad done,
11 and Mahlah, Tirzah, and Hoglah, and Milcah, and Noah, daughters of Zelophehad, are to the sons of their fathers' brethren for wives;
12 [to men] of the families of the sons of Manasseh, son of Joseph, they have been for wives, and their inheritance is with the tribe of the family of their father.
13 These [are] the commands and the judgments which Jehovah hath commanded, by the hand of Moses, concerning the sons of Israel, in the plains of Moab, by Jordan, [near] Jericho.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:46 am, edited 3 times in total.
Deuteronomy 1:1-45 Moses spoke to the people of Israel while they were in the wilderness east of the Jordan River (the land of Moab) --- camped in the Jordan Valley near Suph, between Paran on one side and Tophel, Laban, Hazeroth, and Di-zahab on the other. Normally it takes only eleven days to travel from Mount Sinai to Kadesh-barnea, going by way of Mount Seir. But forty years after the Israelites left Egypt, on the first day of the eleventh month, Moses addressed the people of Israel, telling them everything the Lord had commanded him to say --- taking place after he had defeated King Sihon of the Amorites, who had ruled in Heshbon, and King Og of Bashan, who had ruled in Ashtaroth & Edrei. God said that Israel had stayed at this mountain long enough. It's time to break camp and move on. They are to go to the hill country of the Amorites and to all the neighboring regions—the Jordan Valley, the hill country, the western foothills, the Negev, and the coastal plain. Go to the land of the Canaanites and to Lebanon, and all the way to the great Euphrates River. God is giving all this land! They are to go in and occupy it, for it is the land the Lord swore to give to your ancestors Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and to their descendants.
The Lord God has increased Israel's population, making them as numerous as the stars! But they are such a heavy load for Moses! They choose some well-respected men from each tribe who are known for their wisdom and understanding, and Moses appointed them as leaders. Some were responsible for a thousand people, some for a hundred, some for fifty, and some for ten. They were to hear the cases of fellow Israelites and the foreigners living among them. they were to be perfectly fair and impartial in their judgments ---- hearing the cases of those who were poor as well as the rich .They were not to be afraid of anyone’s anger, for decisions made are God’s decisions.
Just as the Lord God commanded, they left Mount Sinai and traveled through the great and terrifying wilderness, and headed toward the hill country of the Amorites. When arriving at Kadesh-barnea, They have now reached the hill country of the Amorites that the Lord God is giving Israel. But first, the children of Israel wanted to send out scouts to explore the land. This seemed like a good Idea. So twelve scouts, one from each tribe headed for the hill country and came to the valley of Eshcol and explored it. They picked some of its fruit and brought it back. And they reported, ‘The land the Lord our God has given us is indeed a good land.’ But Israel rebelled against the command of the Lord God and refused to go in. They complained in their tents and said, ‘The Lord must hate us. That’s why he has brought us here from Egypt—to hand us over to the Amorites to be slaughtered. 28 Where can we go? Our brothers have demoralized us with their report. They tell us, “The people of the land are taller and more powerful than we are, and their towns are large, with walls rising high into the sky! We even saw giants there—the descendants of Anak!”’ Moses said, "Don’t be shocked or afraid of them! The Lord your God is going ahead of you. He will fight for you, just as you saw him do in Egypt. And you saw how the Lord your God cared for you all along the way as you traveled through the wilderness, just as a father cares for his child. Now he has brought you to this place." But even after all God did, they refused to trust in God who [VERY VISIBLY] went before them looking for the best places to camp, guiding them with a pillar of fire by night and a pillar of cloud by day.
When the Lord heard the complaining, he became very angry, and solemnly swore, that not one from this wicked generation would live to see the good land swore to the ancestors, except Caleb son of Jephunneh. He will see this land because he has followed the Lord completely. God will give to him and his descendants some of the very land he explored during his scouting mission. The Lord was also angry because of Israel. He told Moses, that he will not enter the Promised Land! Instead, Joshua son of Nun, will lead the people into the land. God will give the land to the innocent children. They had to turn and go on back through the wilderness toward the Red Sea. Israel confessed, ‘We have sinned against the Lord! We will go into the land and fight for it, as the Lord our God has commanded us.’ So your men strapped on their weapons, thinking it would be easy to attack the hill country. But the Lord warned, ‘Do not attack, for I am not with you. If you go ahead on your own, you will be crushed by your enemies.’ Israel would not listen. Instead, they again rebelled against the Lord’s command and arrogantly went into the hill country to fight. The Amorites who lived there came out against them like a swarm of bees. They chased and battered them all the way from Seir to Hormah. They returned and wept before the Lord, but he refused to listen. They stayed there at Kadesh for a long time.
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1 These [are] the words which Moses hath spoken unto all Israel, beyond the Jordan, in the wilderness, in the plain over-against Suph, between Paran and Tophel, and Laban, and Hazeroth, and Di-Zahab;
2 eleven days' from Horeb, the way of mount Seir, unto Kadesh-Barnea.
3 And it cometh to pass in the fortieth year, in the eleventh month, on the first of the month hath Moses spoken unto the sons of Israel according to all that Jehovah hath commanded him concerning them;
4 after his smiting Sihon king of the Amorite who is dwelling in Heshbon, and Og king of Bashan who is dwelling in Ashtaroth in Edrei,
5 beyond the Jordan, in the land of Moab, hath Moses begun to explain this law, saying:
6 `Jehovah our God hath spoken unto us in Horeb, saying, Enough to you -- of dwelling in this mount;
7 turn ye and journey for you, and enter the mount of the Amorite, and unto all its neighbouring places, in the plain, in the hill-country, and in the low country, and in the south, and in the haven of the sea, the land of the Canaanite, and of Lebanon, unto the great river, the river Phrat;
8 see, I have set before you the land; go in and possess the land which Jehovah hath sworn to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give to them, and to their seed after them.
9 `And I speak unto you at that time, saying, I am not able by myself to bear you;
10 Jehovah your God hath multiplied you, and lo, ye [are] to-day as the stars of the heavens for multitude;
11 Jehovah, God of your fathers, is adding to you, as ye [are], a thousand times, and doth bless you as He hath spoken to you.
12 `How do I bear by myself your pressure, and your burden, and your strife?
13 Give for yourselves men, wise and intelligent, and known to your tribes, and I set them for your heads;
14 and ye answer me and say, Good [is] the thing which thou hast spoken -- to do.
15 `And I take the heads of your tribes, men, wise and known, and I appoint them heads over you, princes of thousands, and princes of hundreds, and princes of fifties, and princes of tens, and authorities, for your tribes.
16 And I command your judges at that time, saying, Hearkening between your brethren -- then ye have judged righteousness between a man, and his brother, and his sojourner;
17 ye do not discern faces in judgment; as the little so the great ye do hear; ye are not afraid of the face of any, for the judgment is God's, and the thing which is too hard for you, ye bring near unto me, and I have heard it;
18 and I command you, at that time, all the things which ye do.
19 `And we journey from Horeb, and go [through] all that great and fearful wilderness which ye have seen -- the way of the hill-country of the Amorite, as Jehovah our God hath commanded us, and we come in unto Kadesh-Barnea.
20 `And I say unto you, Ye have come in unto the hill-country of the Amorite, which Jehovah our God is giving to us;
21 see, Jehovah thy God hath set before thee the land; go up, possess, as Jehovah, God of thy fathers, hath spoken to thee; fear not, nor be affrighted.
22 `And ye come near unto me, all of you, and say, Let us send men before us, and they search for us the land, and they bring us back word [concerning] the way in which we go up into it, and the cities unto which we come in;
23 and the thing is good in mine eyes, and I take of you twelve men, one man for a tribe.
24 `And they turn and go up to the hill-country, and come in unto the valley of Eshcol, and spy it,
25 and they take with their hand of the fruit of the land, and bring down unto us, and bring us back word, and say, Good is the land which Jehovah our God is giving to us.
26 `And ye have not been willing to go up, and ye provoke the mouth of Jehovah your God,
27 and murmur in your tents, and say, In Jehovah's hating us He hath brought us out of the land of Egypt, to give us into the hand of the Amorite -- to destroy us;
28 whither are we going up? our brethren have melted our heart, saying, A people greater and taller than we, cities great and fenced to heaven, and also sons of Anakim -- we have seen there.
29 `And I say unto you, Be not terrified, nor be afraid of them;
30 Jehovah your God, who is going before you -- He doth fight for you, according to all that He hath done with you in Egypt before your eyes,
31 and in the wilderness, where thou hast seen that Jehovah thy God hath borne thee as a man beareth his son, in all the way which ye have gone, till your coming in unto this place.
32 `And in this thing ye are not stedfast in Jehovah your God,
33 who is going before you in the way to search out to you a place for your encamping, in fire by night, to shew you in the way in which ye go, and in a cloud by day.
34 `And Jehovah heareth the voice of your words, and is wroth, and sweareth, saying,
35 Not one of these men of this evil generation doth see the good land which I have sworn to give to your fathers,
36 save Caleb son of Jephunneh -- he doth see it, and to him I give the land on which he hath trodden, and to his sons, because that he hath been fully after Jehovah.
37 `Also with me hath Jehovah been angry for your sake, saying, Also, thou dost not go in thither;
38 Joshua son of Nun, who is standing before thee, he goeth in thither; him strengthen thou; for he doth cause Israel to inherit.
39 `And your infants, of whom ye have said, For a prey they are, and your sons who have not known to-day good and evil, they go in thither, and to them I give it, and they possess it;
40 and ye, turn for yourselves, and journey toward the wilderness, the way of the Red Sea.
41 `And ye answer and say unto me, We have sinned against Jehovah; we -- we go up, and we have fought, according to all that which Jehovah our God hath commanded us; and ye gird on each his weapons of war, and ye are ready to go up into the hill-country;
42 and Jehovah saith unto me, Say to them, Ye do not go up, nor fight, for I am not in your midst, and ye are not smitten before your enemies.
43 `And I speak unto you, and ye have not hearkened, and provoke the mouth of Jehovah, and act proudly, and go up into the hill-country;
44 and the Amorite who is dwelling in that hill-country cometh out to meet you, and they pursue you as the bees do, and smite you in Seir -- unto Hormah.
45 `And ye turn back and weep before Jehovah, and Jehovah hath not hearkened to your voice, nor hath he given ear unto you;
46 and ye dwell in Kadesh many days, according to the days which ye had dwelt.
Evangelical Apologist James White Quoted Deuteronomy Chapter one, verse 17 to LDS Apologist Bill Hamblin in an e-mail to him. Here is that part of this e-mail:
Yahweh is judging the elohim. What is the content of the judgment? Verses 2 through 7. In verse 2, God brings the charge: unjust judging and partiality to the wicked. You say that this judgment comes upon "(some of?) the other elohim." Yet, the very verses you skip over demonstrate that these are plainly HUMAN matters. The unjust judgment and partiality toward the wicked are HUMAN actions:
Deuteronomy 1:17 'You shall not show partiality [note the phraseology used here, Dr. Hamblin] in judgment; you shall hear the small and the great alike. You shall not fear man, for the judgment is God's. The case that is too hard for you, you shall bring to me, and I will hear it.'
Proverbs 18:5 To show partiality to the wicked is not good, Nor to thrust aside the righteous in judgment.
Evangelical Apologist James White Quoted Deuteronomy Chapter one, verse 17 to LDS Apologist Bill Hamblin in another e-mail to him. Here is that part of this e-mail:
Nor, of course, does it need to. Anyone reading the context knows what is going on. The elohim in Exodus 22:9 "condemn" (hiphil of rasha)---and any person familiar with the term knows its legal ramifications, and its connection with shaphat. Note just one passage that again supports the exegesis I provided:
NAB Deuteronomy 1:17 'You shall not show partiality in judgment; you shall hear the small and the great alike. You shall not fear man, for the judgment is God's. The case that is too hard for you, you shall bring to me, and I will hear it.'
This is, of course, the positive of which Psalm 82:2-4 is the negative, even to the point of the condemnation of showing partiality. Psalm 82 uses shaphat of the action of the elohim----and then, as I showed, limits this to human affairs. You have completely ignored the entire section of my post that demonstrates this I believe beyond any reasonable doubt. Since you seem to have lost this section, I repeat it here, and ask you to respond to it meaningfully:
Again, if you would allow the context to stand as a unit, the answer to the question is without question:
Psalm 82:2 How long will you judge unjustly And show partiality to the wicked? Psalm 82:3 Vindicate the weak and fatherless; Do justice to the afflicted and destitute. Psalm 82:4 Rescue the weak and needy; Deliver them out of the hand of the wicked. Psalm 82:5 They do not know nor do they understand; They walk about in darkness; All the foundations of the earth are shaken. Psalm 82:6 I said, "You are gods, And all of you are sons of the Most High. Psalm 82:7 "Nevertheless you will die like men And fall like any one of the princes." Psalm 82:8 Arise, O God, judge the earth! For it is You who possesses all the nations.
Yahweh is judging the elohim. What is the content of the judgment? Verses 2 through 7. In verse 2, God brings the charge: unjust judging and partiality to the wicked. You say that this judgment comes upon "(some of?) the other elohim." Yet, the very verses you skip over demonstrate that these are plainly HUMAN matters. The unjust judgment and partiality toward the wicked are HUMAN actions:
Deuteronomy 1:17 'You shall not show partiality [note the phraseology used here, Dr. Hamblin] in judgment; you shall hear the small and the great alike. You shall not fear man, for the judgment is God's. The case that is too hard for you, you shall bring to me, and I will hear it.'
Proverbs 18:5 To show partiality to the wicked is not good, Nor to thrust aside the righteous in judgment.
son of Ishmael wrote: This does not make any sense at all. I wish this thread was on the telestial board so I could really tell you what I think of your statement. In your examples above the people have some level of choice. In the Old Testament scripture you quoted, the virgin girls who were made slaves had not choice. Apparently it was just their bad luck to be born into a group of people that god didn't like which means your god is a dick. Thankful no such god exists
In the Old Testament scripture I quoted, those slave girls were formerly headed for HELL. As a slave girl to an Israelite family they at least stood a chance at a secure eternity and perhaps not put their faith and trust in manmade idols --- so I imagine God had other plans for them. I don't appreciate your choice of words to describe my Lord. You may wish to reconsider your position as I find that it will only lead to a dead end.
"...slave girls were formerly headed for HELL. As a slave girl to an Israelite family they at least stood a chance at a secure eternity..."
So by that "logic" I guess you believe that the slavery of Africans in the US was a good thing because even though they were stolen from their homes and treated like cattle they had the the chance to learn about Jesus...so it was all worth it, right?
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo
Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man. - The Dude
Don't you know there ain't no devil, there's just god when he's drunk - Tom Waits
