Why do Mormons want to be called Christian?

[_maklelan]

Maklelan I am horribly horribly disappointed in my daddy. I KNEW you would end up saying this. .

And I knew that if you were honest about what you feel defines a Christian, you wouldn't draw Mormonism outside of the circle.

Unfortunately the main criteria depends on "What Jesus your believe in."? Mormons don't believe in the Christian Jesus in any way shape or form at all...nada Hence the definition and criteria would not apply to a different Jesus

I already explained the fallacy of this. You did not deign to respond, so you can hardly reassert this.

[_Bazooka]

Unfortunately the main criteria depends on "What Jesus your believe in."? Mormons don't believe in the Christian Jesus in any way shape or form at all...nada Hence the definition and criteria would not apply to a different Jesus

I already explained the fallacy of this. You did not deign to respond, so you can hardly reassert this.

Mak, do you agree that Christianity is a collective noun to describe any individual or group that recognises Jesus Christ as a living person and saviour of humanity?

If so, is it not them important that each of these individuals or groups has significantly similar and consistent views on what constitutes "Jesus Christ"?

In which case, isn't the discussion really about what Mormons believe about Jesus Christ in comparison to what the other sections of Christianity believe about Jesus Christ?

[_maklelan]

Mak, do you agree that Christianity is a collective noun to describe any individual or group that recognises Jesus Christ as a living person and saviour of humanity?

No, it's an abstract noun used to describe a broad international community of people who believe Jesus is the Son of God and the Savior of humanity.

If so, is it not them important that each of these individuals or groups has significantly similar and consistent views on what constitutes "Jesus Christ"?

Beyond the necessary view I included in the description, no. Why would it matter what the minutiae are? It only matters from a sectarian point of view, which I have described elsewhere in the following way:

The marginalization or excision of one group within a wider religious movement by an opposing group within that movement is called sectarianism. Sectarianism usually arises when a group has no authority over another group of which it disapproves. Without authority the most effective way to express that disapprobation is to dismiss them as not belonging. This frees the group from association with undesirables and reaffirms notions of uniformity.

In which case, isn't the discussion really about what Mormons believe about Jesus Christ in comparison to what the other sections of Christianity believe about Jesus Christ?

It is about that, but from the New Testament to today, the only criteria that have mattered to every Christian across the board has been consistent and significant: Jesus Christ as Son of God and Savior of humanity. Beyond that you're just harping about the Trinity--which did not exist anywhere for the first 150 years of the Christian Church--and the Reformation. You're basically denying that Christians existed anywhere until the Early Church Fathers started excommunicating people for not accepting their view of Christ's relationship to God. I don't accept that definition, and I will not allow naïve sectarians to try to push it on anyone while I'm around.

[_Bazooka]

It is about that, but from the New Testament to today, the only criteria that have mattered to every Christian across the board has been consistent and significant: Jesus Christ as Son of God and Savior of humanity. Beyond that you're just harping about the Trinity--which did not exist anywhere for the first 150 years of the Christian Church--and the Reformation. You're basically denying that Christians existed anywhere until the Early Church Fathers started excommunicating people for not accepting their view of Christ's relationship to God. I don't accept that definition, and I will not allow naïve sectarians to try to push it on anyone while I'm around.

Okay, so if someone were to articulate that "Christians generally believe that Jesus is God incarnate" this would be an accurate statement for today's Christianity but not for the Christianity of the time frame of the New Testament - would that be your contention here? (I'm trying to keep it really clear and really simple).

[_maklelan]

Okay, so if someone were to articulate that "Christians generally believe that Jesus is God incarnate" this would be an accurate statement for today's Christianity but not for the Christianity of the time frame of the New Testament - would that be your contention here? (I'm trying to keep it really clear and really simple).

Not really. "God incarnate" would have a valid sense to someone from the Johannine community or a Gnostic group. It wouldn't be the Trinitarian sense, but the terminology would certainly be acceptable. Now, if you were to say that God and Jesus were two persons each fully inhabiting a single being, that's something that would have no currency until the late third century at the very earliest, and it would still be understood differently from the Nicene conceptualization.

[_Bazooka]

Okay, so if someone were to articulate that "Christians generally believe that Jesus is God incarnate" this would be an accurate statement for today's Christianity but not for the Christianity of the time frame of the New Testament - would that be your contention here? (I'm trying to keep it really clear and really simple).

Not really. "God incarnate" would have a valid sense to someone from the Johannine community or a Gnostic group. It wouldn't be the Trinitarian sense, but the terminology would certainly be acceptable. Now, if you were to say that God and Jesus were two persons each fully inhabiting a single being, that's something that would have no currency until the late third century at the very earliest, and it would still be understood differently from the Nicene conceptualization.

Would you class someone holding a trinitarian view as a Christian?

[_maklelan]

Would you class someone holding a trinitarian view as a Christian?

I would class anyone who believes Christ is the Son of God and the Savior of humanity as a Christian. That certainly includes those who believe that and hold trinitarian views.

At the same time, I take issue with the contemporary Aristotelian view of categorization. Categories are not determined in our minds by necessary and sufficient features, and so it is often misleading to try to define them that way. In this case, however, I think these features are adequate to delineate a broad Christianity.

[_Bazooka]

Would you class someone holding a trinitarian view as a Christian?

I would class anyone who believes Christ is the Son of God and the Savior of humanity as a Christian. That certainly includes those who believe that and hold trinitarian views.

At the same time, I take issue with the contemporary Aristotelian view of categorization. Categories are not determined in our minds by necessary and sufficient features, and so it is often misleading to try to define them that way. In this case, however, I think these features are adequate to delineate a broad Christianity.

Thanks for the explanation mak.
I will now have a good think about your views.

[_Imwashingmypirate]

To me, I am Christian. Not the same kind of Christian as many other types I come across. I believe the issue with this on going debate is a persons understanding of the word Christian. I do not denounce other types of Christians to be non Christian because they are of a different kind. To me, a Christian is a person who finds inspiration, faith and an example in the person Jesus Christ represents. Whether they choose him to be God or to be Gods son.

Thus, to me, Mormons are without doubt fundamentally Christian. When I go to church, I think of Jesus. And when I take the sacrament, it is in worship of Jesus. And when I pray I imagine Jesus evesdropping in my conversation with God. So I am a Christian and am a Mormon. Christianity is a personal thing regardless of the name of the church they go to. A person can be a methodist but not a christian by going to church and fellowshipping but not believe in Christ.


eta, I also believe we can pray to Jesus and even to people we love. And why not even Mary like the Catholics do. If its true they will listen, if it isn't what have we lost? I do not believe one can only communicate with God. Nor do I class prayer as worship unless I am sending love and the aww feeling in a prayer and so would not consider it as worshipping anyone other than God.

[_Albion]

[quote="maklelan"][quote="Bazooka

I would class anyone who believes Christ is the Son of God and the Savior of humanity as a Christian. That certainly includes those who believe that and hold trinitarian views.



Will all "Christians", by your definition, receive eternal life in God's presence (salvation in his Kingdom) receiving all that he has because of that belief in Christ, regardless of numerous variations of what constitutes that belief?