I'd like to add my two cents

[_LittleWorthen]

i'm new here so forgive me if it shows.

i was just reading a lot of the posts on this site. there are a lot of honest questions, which are great! and then there are a lot of people who are just trying to vent their discontentment towards the church onto its members or the other people with honest questions.
Let me just say, i think that it is sad. It is sad that so many people try to discredit the church and take every misconception or mistake or action of one or few and use it against a happy, content group of people.
I am a convert to the church. i have been a member since only 2008. I grew up in Michigan with a very.... not mormony life. Now I live in Utah. I am always constantly learning new things about the church, some which stir up a question or two which i go out of my way to study and find answers to. But i never have once regretted or questioned my decision to be baptized. because frankly, all doctrine and history aside, ALL churches and religions have flaws, and contradictions, and misunderstood teachings. All of them. So being a catholic or a jew or a baptist isn't going to stop the questions from coming. The ONE thing, besides my testimony of the church itself, because for the record i do believe its true. But the one thing that always keeps me solid, always reminds me just how great the church is, is how nice and loving the people in it are. how family oriented they are. how serviceable they are. how much they go out of their way to help others in need. how they dedicate their lives to the gospel and try to live by it every day even when the rest of the world pulls farther and farther away from it. or how such a large number of them sacrifice 2 or more years of their lives, and completely put themselves on hold in the name of God and his work. how can you say that any one of those attributes is NOT something that God would have us do?

The reality is, this world is corrupt and is all the time getting worse. regardless of what mistakes were made or what things were said, i want to belong to a church that is trying to remain as close to God as possible. A church that restores my faith in humanity day after day. A church that focuses on family and developing amazingly close relationships with each other. By living these things everyday, the things the church teaches, i know that at the end of the day, God is going to be happy with me and forget everything else. which seems like its pretty much common sense.

That is why, no matter how hard you try to convince me otherwise, i am now, and always will be a proud member of this church despite the errors of men.

that's all.. *steps down off soap box*

[_Tobin]

Welcome to the forum LittleWorthen.

I'm glad you have found what you need in the Church. I also attend, but for different reasons. I believe the LDS Church is misguided, but in general, most of the people are good people that go there. I like the association and opportunity to serve others. I rarely discuss my beliefs in church with others because I've found most LDS people can't accept my views and often change as a result. So I mostly keep to myself, serve as best I can, and answer the occasional question (usually from the bishop ugh).

Tobin

[_subgenius]

Welcome to the forum LittleWorthen

[_Albion]

Littleworthen, I think in comparing the "flaws" in Mormonism with those you believe exist in other churches you are making an error in assuming that participants in those other churches see their church in the same way that Mormons see their church. For most in other churches, I believe, their participation is less about their particular church or denomination and more about the broader terms of being a Christian. There is a vast difference between an orthodox Christian viewing the "flaws" in his or her denomination and any possible flaws in the essentials of theology shared by Christians. It is difficult to see how any Mormon can separate any aspect of Mormon theology, history or belief from the very essential element of "the church" when it is all wrapped up as one entity...supposedly all true. Other churches (Catholics possibly excepted but I'll let them speak for themselves) do not claim some direct mouthpiece of God on earth the way the Mormon Church does. All this aside, welcome to the board.

[_BenBritton]

Albion, I think the "all true" is not a concept taught in the scriptures or by early or modern LDS apostles and prophets. I do believe it is a common misconception among church membership and in the wider Mormon culture.

The principles we are taught instead include the fallibility of men, and the need to confirm teachings for ourselves. Brigham Young is known for telling the Saints not to trust his words or other words just because they are the leaders of the church, but instead we should go pray about it. Though we claim prophets we do not claim perfect prophets, and I feel that is an important realization. Though we claim continuous revelation, we do not claim constant revelation which would be needed to keep every teaching, interpretation, and practice on perfect track.

[_Paloma]

It sounds like you've found a "resting place" in the LDS church in terms of your faith in God.

I agree with what Albion said about orthodox or mainstream Christians generally not having the same faith attachment to their particular church or denomination, but more so simply to their faith in Christ.

Having said that, I believe that Christian community is important, and is a vital part of the way we understand and live out our faith.

Although I do not agree with LDS theology, I see their social cohesiveness as a strength in the LDS church. And I find the LDS people to be a warm, kind and service-oriented group, especially within their own communities.

Where I've seen a lack of compassion and empathy from LDS folk is in their defensiveness of their faith. Fear of apostasy (or even of appearing less righteous than they should) seems to produce judgementalism and sometimes even coldness and harshness. Of course, such fear, along with its bad effects, is not in any way unique to LDS believers, but is probably most pronounced when a strong, exclusive sense of community is present along with a very structured way of life.

Both in real life and on LDS-related message boards, I've seen some beautiful examples of faithful LDS folk who are "shining lights" in their ability to transcend their own religious and cultural perceptions and assumptions, and to express compassion and empathy for other people and for divergent views.

It's great to see your voice added to that of the wildly varying mix here on this board. Personally, I enjoy all voices and really appreciate the freedom to be honest, transparent and real here on the board. We all come from different places and have different experiences and beliefs.

As a Christian believer, (though not LDS), I find it helpful for myself to come here as a listener, a lover of people, and not as a defender of my own peculiar beliefs or mindset. (Of course, we can't help but "carry" who we are, i.e. our own faith-filled self, with us wherever we are.)

The thing about being defensive is that it's really hard to be open to understanding and even just enjoying people when we have those walls of protectiveness around us. It kind of reminds me of Jesus' freedom to mix with all kinds of people, much to the consternation and disgust of the confused and judgemental religious folks around him.

And of course we're not Jesus, so I like to think that I have the humility to learn something from people who are not like me!

[_Dr. Shades]

That is why, no matter how hard you try to convince me otherwise, i am now, and always will be a proud member of this church despite the errors of men.

Just a little rhetorical question for you:

If Joseph Smith did not see anyone in the Sacred Grove, and if he did not translate characters from golden plates, would that matter to you?

[_LittleWorthen]

That is why, no matter how hard you try to convince me otherwise, i am now, and always will be a proud member of this church despite the errors of men.

Just a little rhetorical question for you:

If Joseph Smith did not see anyone in the Sacred Grove, and if he did not translate characters from golden plates, would that matter to you?

no it wouldn't matter to me. i've thought about this before. honestly, if it ever turned out to be all untrue, i'd still be a happy and proud member. honestly, even if God ended up not existing, i'd still be happy where i am. treating others with love and compassion and service and loving and honoring your wife/husband and being close to your family are all thing's i think people should aspire for even without religion. The Church just gives me additional motivation to strive to do better in these aspects.

[_Quasimodo]

no it wouldn't matter to me. i've thought about this before. honestly, if it ever turned out to be all untrue, i'd still be a happy and proud member. honestly, even if God ended up not existing, i'd still be happy where i am. treating others with love and compassion and service and loving and honoring your wife/husband and being close to your family are all thing's i think people should aspire for even without religion. The Church just gives me additional motivation to strive to do better in these aspects.

Actually, LittleWorthen, I think that is great. You are happy with the comradery of the LDS Church and that is enough for you. The people in the LDS Church are very nice and helpful.

If doctrine is not the reason for your membership, however, the Sierra Club offers all those benefits without the cost of your time for callings and ten percent of your income.

[_Fence Sitter]

Just a little rhetorical question for you:

If Joseph Smith did not see anyone in the Sacred Grove, and if he did not translate characters from golden plates, would that matter to you?

no it wouldn't matter to me. i've thought about this before. honestly, if it ever turned out to be all untrue, i'd still be a happy and proud member. honestly, even if God ended up not existing, i'd still be happy where i am. treating others with love and compassion and service and loving and honoring your wife/husband and being close to your family are all thing's i think people should aspire for even without religion. The Church just gives me additional motivation to strive to do better in these aspects.

Welcome. There are some of us here who also believe that the Church provides a stable environment with in which to live. I can find very little fault in how you describe the Church since I too share most of those opinions about Mormonism as a culture. Given that you do not care (or seem not to) about the historicity of Mormonism can you tell me if you pay a full tithing and obey the WoW? If so why?