BCSpace is my favorite mopologist

[_mentalgymnast]

... there are many passages in LDS doctrine that specifically states black skin is a curse? For example:

http://mormonthink.com/blackweb.htm#full

2 Nephi 5: 21

'And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people, the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.'

Please address this one example to substantiate your claim that there is "no evidence whatsoever" that LDS doctrine is not racist.

To the lurkers... don't expect a response to this question, as it's not how bcspace operates. What bcspace does, is state things that aren't true, fails to answer direct questions addressing the data presented, and in a later date he'll claim he's "debunked" any criticism. I figure a third grade reading comprehension level is all that would be required to answer the question, but it's much easier to tuck tail and flee.

To Consig, please give us your take on 2 Nephi 5: 21. While you claim "some" LDS doctrine isn't racist, what you're insinuating is that "some" of it is. I contend the multiple references to dark/black skin in LDS doctrine is slam dunk cut and dry regarding its meaning, which would also explain why men with dark skin could not hold the priesthood until 1978. Please enlighten me with your knowledge of the subject.

The apologetic for this is pretty well summarized here:

http://ldsscriptureteachings.org/2013/1 ... hi-214-15/

Regards,
MG

[_thews]

The apologetic for this is pretty well summarized here:

http://ldsscriptureteachings.org/2013/1 ... hi-214-15/

Regards,
MG

As is typical for LDS apologists, a link to some supposed place to find the information is all that's posted. Do you know how to use the quote feature mentalgymnast? Is that too difficult to ask for when making a supposed point, or am I to weed through your spider web link to find it for you. In this instance it's simple...

When we examine verses like 2 Nephi 5:21 and 3 Nephi 2:14-15, at first glance some readers assume that the author of the text is racist. In 2 Nephi 5:21 we read, “…as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.” The initial reading of the text may cause some to conclude that the moment Laman, Lemuel, and those that left the Lehite colony had an immediate change of skin color. I do not believe this. There is convincing textual evidence in the Book of Mormon to support my claim that I will address shortly.

While this writer's "opinion" is that the curse of Cain is not based on race, that is not what the facts dictate. This is simply a function of distortion, that when one reads through it and is eventually lost in the spider web, they will ultimately find some sort of solace in the writer's opinion, which is not based on fact. Please explain to me mentalgymnast that multiple references specifically defining skin color as "white and delightsome" is, supposedly, not racist? You can jump through your imaginary hoop if you wish, or you can address the factual data... something that bcspace and Consig refuse to do. Why is that? I'll tell you why... they are wrong, as you are.

[_mentalgymnast]

As is typical for LDS apologists, a link to some supposed place to find the information is all that's posted. Do you know how to use the quote feature mentalgymnast? Is that too difficult to ask for when making a supposed point, or am I to weed through your spider web link to find it for you. In this instance it's simple...

The blog entry is short. Even if you don't have a broadband connection it will take very little time to download and digest. Here it is again:

http://ldsscriptureteachings.org/2013/1 ... hi-214-15/

You only have to click on the link once and then read everything under the heading:

Questions about 2 Nephi 5:21 and 3rd Nephi 2:14-15

There is a link at the bottom of the blog post linking to some stuff Brant Gardner has written.

Nowhere did I say that I necessarily subscribe to everything linked to. But it does, fairly well, lay out one apologetic view in discussing this issue.

Regards,
MG

[_thews]

As is typical for LDS apologists, a link to some supposed place to find the information is all that's posted. Do you know how to use the quote feature mentalgymnast? Is that too difficult to ask for when making a supposed point, or am I to weed through your spider web link to find it for you. In this instance it's simple...

The blog entry is short. Even if you don't have a broadband connection it will take very little time to download and digest. Here it is again:

http://ldsscriptureteachings.org/2013/1 ... hi-214-15/

You only have to click on the link once and then read everything under the heading:

Questions about 2 Nephi 5:21 and 3rd Nephi 2:14-15

There is a link at the bottom of the blog post linking to some stuff Brant Gardner has written.

Nowhere did I say that I necessarily subscribe to everything linked to. But it does, fairly well, lay out one apologetic view in discussing this issue.

Regards,
MG

What is your point? I don't care to read through the opinion of what you're told to believe. If you have a point to make, then make it. Quote the relevant part without "one apologetic view" of someone else. The curse of Cain regarding dark/black skin is referenced multiple times in LDS doctrine. If you care to see it, look at my previous posts which quote it specifically. Your tired ruse that your "answer" can be found elsewhere is nothing more than distortion, as it's based on the opinion of someone else. Please enlighten me mentalgymnast, how can anyone interpret 2 Nephi 5: 21 in a way other than what's clearly stated? Why is it that black men could not hold the priesthood until 1978? Please answer that one question... why did the LDS church ban black men from holding the priesthood?

http://mormonthink.com/blackweb.htm#full

2 Nephi 5: 21
For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people, the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.'

[_mentalgymnast]

I don't care to read through the opinion of what you're told to believe.

Then don't. And, by the way, I'm not being told to believe anything. I expressed rather clearly that I'm hesitant about jumping on board with the apologetic I linked you to. No need to get all hot and bothered. I'm not attacking you.

Just trying to help.

Regards,
MG

[_moksha]

Bc, black skin being a curse is a direct result of racist thinking. In truth, skin pigmentation has nothing to do with curses.

[_ControlFreak]

Sometimes BCSpace is entertaining or even has some good points. Other times he is unbelievably dense.

Thews, on the other hand, has always come across as an ass. Ripping into Quasi, Consig and Bokovoy? AlthoughI frequently don't agree with them (other than Quasi) and I don't know them that well, they have always seemed like classy gentlemen in my view. Quasi and Consig are easily two of the nicest people on the board.

[_Saw Skooh]

bcspace doesn't make arguments. He makes assertions, but not arguments.

I often make unassailable assertions and when I argue, I usually win quickly because no one else is able to make a counter argument or they change the subject or devolve into invective etc.

See? While his assertions abound here in this forum, his "arguments" are always alluded to have been created already in some other time and place, but we never get to actually see them.

[_Bazooka]

bcspace doesn't make arguments. He makes assertions, but not arguments.

I often make unassailable assertions and when I argue, I usually win quickly because no one else is able to make a counter argument or they change the subject or devolve into invective etc.

CFR

[_mentalgymnast]

Thews, on the other hand, has always come across as an ass.

He does seem to be rather mean spirited.

Regards,
MG