Epic Mormonism Live on Rosebud Accusations

[Esme]

Yes, well, that turned out to be untrue, no?

What part are referring to that turned out to be untrue?

[Esme]

He eventually picked a side, but yes I'm totally convinced that he and Open Stories Foundation were souring on conference events and their underlying communities well before Rosebud turned fatal attraction on John.

I'm not so sure he was so down on the conferences at the time. He says in his email to Rosebud:

I need to have no more conferences for a few years.

It sounds like he just wants to pause them for a few years because he doesn't have the time/attention to do them right now. But he will later when his PhD is completed and then he can start them up again.

[Esme]

Also Esme how do you still have access to the documents?

I downloaded a bunch before the website went down. Not sure I got all of them.

[Dr Moore]

He eventually picked a side, but yes I'm totally convinced that he and Open Stories Foundation were souring on conference events and their underlying communities well before Rosebud turned fatal attraction on John.

I'm not so sure he was so down on the conferences at the time. He says in his email to Rosebud:

I need to have no more conferences for a few years.

It sounds like he just wants to pause them for a few years because he doesn't have the time/attention to do them right now. But he will later when his PhD is completed and then he can start them up again.

I think he was just being kind. Saying "for a few years" in a startup is not dissimilar from saying "maybe forever." At a minimum, he acknowledges to rosebud that the events are too taxing on him. She should have taken that as a cue, or, if she had any sensibility, asked him more questions about what he really thought about the events. Notice how she never asks him for any advice, in any of their exchanges? She thinks she has the answers. She doesn't.

[Kukulkan]

Esme I see what you are getting at and I agree with you that despite the board offering for her to reapply there most likely was not a place at Open Stories Foundation for Rosebud. You can't expect to press your superior for sex after they have ended the affair and expect to stay at the organization you both work for.

[Kukulkan]

Also what is the date on this email? Is it the Aug 10th one?

[Esme]

She made that plea many times, but ultimately John seems to have forced Open Stories Foundation to admit that it was John, not Open Stories Foundation, who owned the Facebook groups from which grassroots organization for the CTW events took place. This comingling of assets is common in startups and shows us that despite having a 501(c)(3) structure, and a non-employee board, the whole operation was just a messy scrabble of John trying to make a living for himself while working through grad school.

From Natasha's email:

- John was asked to hand over the "Circling the Wagons" domain so [redacted] and others could move forward with that venture independently from Open Stories Foundation. John did.
- John has been encouraged to un-ban [redacted] from Open Stories Foundation associated Facebook groups. John says he will under certain stipulations be wants [redacted] to agree to.

From John's email:

Option 1: Unbanning- from the regional communities prior to handing them over to local ownership, with [redacted] agreeing to not join any future MS/Open Stories Foundation communities,

John gave Rosebud the domain name.

And whether JD or Open Stories Foundation owned the communities, the plan was to unban Rosebud from the local communities and then hand over the ownership of the local groups.

So Rosebud would be getting the things that were most valuable to her, no?

[Lem]

Esme I see what you are getting at and I agree with you that despite the board offering for her to reapply there most likely was not a place at Open Stories Foundation for Rosebud. You can't expect to press your superior for sex after they have ended the affair and expect to stay at the organization you both work for.

In other words, if a superior has trouble ending an affair they had with a subordinate, they can expect to solve the problem by having the organization terminate the subordinate's employment. Another good example for why sexual harassment policies, such as the one the Open Stories Foundation now has, need to be in place.

[Dr Moore]

And whether JD or Open Stories Foundation owned the communities, the plan was to unban Rosebud from the local communities and then hand over the ownership of the local groups.

So Rosebud would be getting the things that were most valuable to her, no?

Can you post the links? If those terms were part of a pre-packaged exit agreement at some point, it seems that agreement broke down. Perhaps because Rosebud refused to sign the exit NDA? I don't have the sources you're citing from.

[Kukulkan]

Esme I see what you are getting at and I agree with you that despite the board offering for her to reapply there most likely was not a place at Open Stories Foundation for Rosebud. You can't expect to press your superior for sex after they have ended the affair and expect to stay at the organization you both work for.

In other words, if a superior has trouble ending an affair they had with a subordinate, they can expect to solve the problem by having the organization terminate the subordinate's employment. Another good example for why sexual harassment policies, such as the one the Open Stories Foundation now has, need to be in place.

Sorry my wording seemed one sided.

You can't expect to press your superior or subordinate for sex after they have ended the affair and expect to stay at the organization you both work for.

But yes I do believe that sexual harassments policies are incredibly important to foster a healthy and safe work environment.