John Dehlin Stake President update 8/23/14

[_moksha]

In that same letter we told President King that we could not concede to his other requests as a matter of conscience (e.g., taking down past Mormon Stories episodes that express doubts/criticisms of the church, ceasing to publicly express or to interview people in the future with doubts/concerns regarding the church, ceasing our public support of same-sex marriage and Ordain Women).

Using a threatened excommunication as a means of carrying out censorship for the Church is a story in and of itself. That would make for a fascinating podcast.

[Guest]

Here is my post. I'm still interested in the discussion if you are.

hairsplitting? Is it possible King changed his mind or got some input from the top to hit the pause button?<br /><br />Or must we just assume [mormonstories] is a fraud and a liar because, you and shadowposer are pissed and are holding a grudge?<br/>

god. effing. damnit. cwald.

nobody asked you to assume john is a fraud or a liar. and nobody is asking you to conclude or assume anything because you imagine i am pissed or that poser has a grudge. do you have a real question?

[Guest]

Using a threatened excommunication as a means of carrying out censorship for the Church is a story in and of itself. That would make for a fascinating podcast.

using an imaginary threat of an imaginary excommunication as a means of gaining sympathy for oneself would make for an interesting summer. not as interesting as blood in the street in the fall, but interesting nonetheless. popcorn futures, buy popcorn futures.

what would be an interesting story, would be if [mormonstories] was actually excommunicated without having a disciplinary council at all. now that would have been interesting to see how otterson dealt with that.

[_cwald]

I'm going to refrain from commenting on Dehlin threads for a while. You have my attention.

[_ZelphtheGreat]

Big difference here. Kelly was 2000 miles away and tried while a member of a new ward - by the Bishop in her OLD ward.

Dehlin can look the steak prez in the eye and defend himself.

[_Bazooka]

For a church that has spent so much time and effort this year in trying to spin the message to its female members that they are of equal value as priesthood holding males, their inaction with Dehlin's situation seems counter productive. On the face of it both Kelly and Dehlin are guilty of similar things. They both have said things contrary to Church doctrine and both have sought to gain a following. One can only assume that the leadership in SLC perceived Kelly to be a bigger and more pressing threat.

[Guest]

Big difference here. Kelly was 2000 miles away and tried while a member of a new ward - by the Bishop in her OLD ward.

[mormonstories] can look the steak prez in the eye and defend himself.

that is true. the other difference is that kate had an actual trial or court. not only did [mormonstories] not have one, it was never even tentatively scheduled. were [mormonstories] to have been exed this week as he was suggesting was a likely outcome, it would have been done without a court. that would have been one helluva story.

[Guest]

For a church that has spent so much time and effort this year in trying to spin the message to its female members that they are of equal value as priesthood holding males, their inaction with [mormonstories]'s situation seems counter productive. On the face of it both Kelly and [mormonstories] are guilty of similar things. They both have said things contrary to Church doctrine and both have sought to gain a following. One can only assume that the leadership in Salt Lake City perceived Kelly to be a bigger and more pressing threat.

bazooka. help me understand this. i do not see it the same as you do, at all. i really do not.

i understand that it is BS that kelley was exed. i get that. i get that she was treated poorly. i am not saying she deserved this. even though i disagree with her on many things, and have issues with her stategy, i think she was treated poorly.

i do not see [mormonstories] being guilty of similar things. first of all, [mormonstories] is just a publisher. can you identify any movements that he originated? he didn't start ordain women or anything like it. he is a publisher. he happens to be successful and charismatic, but to me, he is just a Mormon producer doing interviews and reports. i think he is more like peggy stack than kelly. would it be reasonable to compare [mormonstories] to the editor of the sl tribune? it makes a lot more sense than comparing him to kelly?

kelly is more of a threat because she is originating a movement that threatens the church and its doctrine. [mormonstories] is not originating a damn thing.

[_Bazooka]

For a church that has spent so much time and effort this year in trying to spin the message to its female members that they are of equal value as priesthood holding males, their inaction with Dehlin's situation seems counter productive. On the face of it both Kelly and Dehlin are guilty of similar things. They both have said things contrary to Church doctrine and both have sought to gain a following. One can only assume that the leadership in Salt Lake City perceived Kelly to be a bigger and more pressing threat.

bazooka. help me understand this. i do not see it the same as you do, at all. i really do not.

i understand that it is b***s*** that kelley was exed. i get that. i get that she was treated poorly. i am not saying she deserved this. even though i disagree with her on many things, and have issues with her stategy, i think she was treated poorly.

i do not see dehlin being guilty of similar things. first of all, dehlin is just a publisher. can you identify any movements that he originated? he didn't start ordain women or anything like it. he is a publisher. he happens to be successful and charismatic, but to me, he is just a Mormon producer doing interviews and reports. i think he is more like peggy stack than kelly. would it be reasonable to compare dehlin to the editor of the sl tribune? it makes a lot more sense than comparing him to kelly?

kelly is more of a threat because she is originating a movement that threatens the church and its doctrine. dehlin is not originating a damn thing.

I think we agree he has said things contrary to Church doctrine (albeit he flip flops around a bit), right?

In terms of seeking a following - he clearly touts for people to follow his podcasts, he seeks donations, he has a Facebook group, etc.

Here are his stated aims:

Mormon Stories podcast is dedicated to exploring, celebrating, and challenging Mormon culture in constructive ways. The podcast is conducted in the spirit of the Mormon Stories Shared Values:

We acknowledge the richness of Mormon heritage, teachings, and community in all of its diversity.
We believe that one can self-identify as Mormon based on one’s genealogy, upbringing, beliefs, relationships, and other life experiences, regardless of one’s adherence or non-adherence to the teachings or doctrines of any religious organization.
We seek spaces where we as Mormons can live lives of intellectual and spiritual integrity, individual conscience, and personal dignity.
We acknowledge and honor different spiritual paths and modes of religious or non-religious truth-seeking.
We respect the convictions of those who subscribe to ideas and beliefs that differ from our own.
We recognize the confusion, distress, emotional trauma, and social ostracism that people on faith journeys often experience.
We seek constructive ways of helping and supporting people, regardless of their ultimate decisions regarding church affiliation or activity.
We affirm the inherent and equal worth of all human beings.
We seek spaces where Mormons (and all people) can interact as equals regardless of race, gender, or sexual orientation. In this spirit of egalitarianism, we prefer non-authoritarian and non-hierarchical means of organization and affiliation.

http://mormonstories.org/about/

He may be more subtle than Kelly, but he is seeking to own and head an organisation (loose) of Mormons who will listen to what he has to say.

[Guest]

I think we agree he has said things contrary to Church doctrine (albeit he flip flops around a bit), right?



He may be more subtle than Kelly, but he is seeking to own and head an organisation (loose) of Mormons who will listen to what he has to say.

yeah. we agree on that. indeed.

i guess i just didn't or don't see heading a group of unorthodoxy within the church too much different than just being a Mormon. bishops, stake presidents and GA's want people to listen to what they have to say too. that expectation is not un-mormon at all, especially for a dude.

bushman said things that were contrary to church correlation too. he wants a following too. maybe king just sees [mormonstories] as a publisher like bushman.