Karma - intention or action based?

[_Amore]

I'm not a new-agey - and I'm not really into Eastern religions, but I do believe in some type of "what goes around comes around." I believe that there's an energy we keep - that attracts similar energies and repels different energies.

Do you think Karma is intention or action based?
(If you don't believe in karma - please humor me and if there were such a thing as karma - would it be based on intention or action?)

[_Amore]

On a lighter note...

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=you ... 2FEB675A84

[_subgenius]

You mean like reaping what you sow? Galatians 6:7-9?

[_Quasimodo]

I'm not a new-agey - and I'm not really into Eastern religions, but I do believe in some type of "what goes around comes around." I believe that there's an energy we keep - that attracts similar energies and repels different energies.

Do you think Karma is intention or action based?
(If you don't believe in karma - please humor me and if there were such a thing as karma - would it be based on intention or action?)

I believe that the true definition of Karma requires action. Thinking about doing bad things doesn't count. We all think about doing dumb things.

If intention were the determining factor, Karma would be the law of thought police.

I have to add that I'm not sure if Karmic law actually exists.

[_ludwigm]

I believe that the true definition of Karma requires action.

+1

Thinking about doing bad things doesn't count. We all think about doing dumb things.

The fundamental traits of my character I consider to be cowardice, malice, and pride. As it turned out, this triumvirate had at its disposal a certain talent, which concealed it and ostensibly transformed it, and intelligence assisted in this – intelligence is one of life's most effective instruments for masking inborn traits, once it decides that such a course is desirable. For forty-odd years I have been an obliging, modest individual, devoid of any sign of professional arrogance, because for a very long time and most persistently I schooled myself in precisely this behavior. But as far back into childhood as I can recall, I sought out evil, though of course I was unaware of it.

My evil was isotropic, unbiased, and totally disinterested. In places of veneration, such as churches, or in the company of particularly worthy persons, I liked to think forbidden thoughts. That the content of these thoughts was ludicrously puerile does not matter in the least. I was simply conducting experiments on a scale practically accessible to me. I do not remember when I began these experiments. I remember only the deep sense of injury, the anger, and the disappointment that came upon me some years later, when it turned out that a head filled with wickedness would never, not in any place nor in any company, be struck by lightning; that breaking free of and not participating in the Proper brought with it no – absolutely no – punishment.

If it is at all possible to speak thus of a child of less than ten, I wanted that lightning or some other form of dire retribution; I summoned it, challenged it, and grew to despise the world, the place of my existence, because it had demonstrated the futility of all action and thought, evil included. Thus I never tormented animals, or hurt even the grass underfoot; on the other hand, I lashed out at stones, the sand, I abused furniture, subjected water to torture, and mentally smashed the stars to pieces, to punish them for their indifference to me, and as I did so my fury became more and more helpless, for my understanding increased, of how ridiculous were the things I did.

I have to add that I'm not sure if Karmic law actually exists.

... but sounds pretty well ...

[_subgenius]

I believe that the true definition of Karma requires action. Thinking about doing bad things doesn't count. We all think about doing dumb things.

+1...AND...-1

Good intent and good deed contribute to good karma and future happiness, while bad intent and bad deed contribute to bad karma and future suffering

Now as a man is like this or like that,
according as he acts and according as he behaves, so will he be;
a man of good acts will become good, a man of bad acts, bad;
he becomes pure by pure deeds, bad by bad deeds;

And here they say that a person consists of desires,
and as is his desire, so is his will;
and as is his will, so is his deed;
and whatever deed he does, that he will reap.

—Brihadaranyaka Upanishad, 7th Century BC

In other words doing and thinking are inseparable.

"The idea of karma may be compared to the notion of a person's "character", suggests Lochtefeld, as both are an assessment of the person and determined by that person's habitual thinking and acting." (emphasis mine)

[_Amore]

You mean like reaping what you sow? Galatians 6:7-9?

Yeah, and also wondering about spiritual laws.
If we are in essence "intelligences" (consciousness) & conscious energy never zaps out of existence, but simply changes form (in other words - continues after physical death)... then I'm wondering if and how karma would apply spiritually, as well as physically - afterlife and connected conscious interactions in this life.

[_Amore]

I'm not a new-agey - and I'm not really into Eastern religions, but I do believe in some type of "what goes around comes around." I believe that there's an energy we keep - that attracts similar energies and repels different energies.

Do you think Karma is intention or action based?
(If you don't believe in karma - please humor me and if there were such a thing as karma - would it be based on intention or action?)

I believe that the true definition of Karma requires action. Thinking about doing bad things doesn't count. We all think about doing dumb things.

If intention were the determining factor, Karma would be the law of thought police.

I have to add that I'm not sure if Karmic law actually exists.

I also am unsure about Karma law, but I don't doubt the law of cause and effect - I just don't know how that applies in all possible causes and effects.

On the surface, it would seem that you're right about karma requiring action - because actions and subsequent consequences are apparent. You do something and something happens as a result, but if there is a boomerang karmic effect, would it matter if somebody intended to ie: be nice, but actually hurt someone? Laws are clear cut - and if you hurt someone in a way that's against the law, you pay, period, no matter your intentions, although if intent can be proven, it may affect punishment. However, in more subtle interactions, if one hurts someone, but didn't intend to - would they still get the boomerang effect - maybe to teach empathy and less ignorance?

[_Amore]

I remember only the deep sense of injury, the anger, and the disappointment that came upon me some years later, when it turned out that a head filled with wickedness would never, not in any place nor in any company, be struck by lightning; that breaking free of and not participating in the Proper brought with it no – absolutely no – punishment.

...Thus I never tormented animals, or hurt even the grass underfoot; on the other hand, I lashed out at stones, the sand, I abused furniture, subjected water to torture, and mentally smashed the stars to pieces, to punish them for their indifference to me, and as I did so my fury became more and more helpless, for my understanding increased, of how ridiculous were the things I did.[/size]

I think it's important to mental health, to overcome some dysfunctional but traditional religious/family interpreted teachings. When I was young, I believed I was evil and that bad things happened because of my evil thoughts... like a fire and rape in our neighborhood. I would do magical thinking in bargaining attempts to avoid punishment. Over time, I realized that authorities (esp. parents) in my life were blaming me for more than I was responsible for, and as a child, I had to think they were perfect, so it must have been my problem... but of course in reality I wasn't to blame for things beyond my control.

The truth is usually in between extremes - so there's some truth that "as a man thinketh in his heart so is he" - yet there's also truth in "faith without works is dead." Assuming thoughts OR faith is all-powerful is inaccurate, at least within terms of this life.

As you quoted in the last part, if one goes to an extreme too far, eventually, one realizes how ridiculous it is - and kindof bounces back, after hitting the extreme bottom. This could be justifying the idea of not being "luke warm" - yet then again, "moderation in all things" - (Aristotle and Mormon idea).

I think the underlying interdependent truths of progress (and subsequent joy) is summed up in Wizard of Oz characters... brain (logical reasoning), heart (intuition/spirit) and courage (action).

[_subgenius]

You mean like reaping what you sow? Galatians 6:7-9?

Yeah, and also wondering about spiritual laws.
If we are in essence "intelligences" (consciousness) & conscious energy never zaps out of existence, but simply changes form (in other words - continues after physical death)... then I'm wondering if and how karma would apply spiritually, as well as physically - afterlife and connected conscious interactions in this life.

there was discussion that approached these ideas on this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=35420

the idea revolves around a pre-mortal as well as post-mortal existence.