5 reasons to suspect Jesus never existed...

[_Jersey Girl]

I'm not talking about children in general. What I meant was that the term bastard refers to a child that is illegitimate, and I guess I have a problem with people using a derogatory word that indicates there's something wrong with a child just because of something that child's parents did or didn't do. I don't like the term bastard at all.

How is the child of two unmarried adults, "illegitimate"?

Kevin,

I promise you that I'm not trying to gang up on you here. I really encourage you to think about what you've stated and the terminology that you yourself have used regarding children. The term "illegitimate" is an archaic and outdated misnomer, in my opinion.

When a child is born of parents who have chosen not to marry, that child receives a birth certificate, that registers the particulars of their birth. Who they become from that point on is largely due to nature/nurture. What they believe about themselves and what they believe others believe about them, is largely who they will become.

When you lay a label such as "illegitimate" on a child, you are compromising their sense of self esteem and sense of self worth, and you are marginalizing a vulnerable population of our society. I don't think you mean to, but that is the product of your words here.

Please think about what those words mean to the child.

The child isn't responsible for the choices of their bio parents, why let the choices of their parents follow them all the days of their lives and possibly limit the person they believe they can become? Doesn't the child deserve a chance to become a whole person in their own right, free of the choices of their parents, to realize their own self potential?

I'm telling you, as someone who has "bastards" dangling around on her family tree and who has invested more than half of my life advocating for children, the term "illegitimate" is unfair, unnecessary and misdirected. It is just as hurtful the child as the word "bastard" is.

In this context, and in my view only, the real bastards are the people who fail to claim responsibility to take care of their own children.

We don't need to identify children as "illegitimate", we don't need to identify them as a child "born out of wedlock".
We can identify them by their name.

Kevin, if you're wiling to give this some thought, and when it comes to the social status of children, whenever the word "illegitimate" comes to your mind regarding that, I'd like you to try to think in terms of...

"This child has a legitimate right to go about life without being judged or labeled by the choices of his/her parents".

Stick around, I'll reprogram you eventually! :-)

I think I'm done with this part of the derail.

[_KevinSim]

I'm not talking about children in general. What I meant was that the term bastard refers to a child that is illegitimate, and I guess I have a problem with people using a derogatory word that indicates there's something wrong with a child just because of something that child's parents did or didn't do. I don't like the term bastard at all.

How is the child of two unmarried adults, "illegitimate"?

Jersey Girl, Chap already corrected me on this. It was wrong to call such a child illegitimate, and I apologized for saying that. I should have just spelled out that the parents of the child I was talking about weren't married when the child was born.

But what I meant to say was true enough; it is just as much in bad taste to call such a child a bastard as it is in bad taste to call a woman a bitch, or to describe her actions as bitchy.

[_KevinSim]

KevinSim,

You seem to be hung up on the dictionaries definition of Bitch

There is another definition which for politically correct reasons could never be added there.

6. A women born and raised and grown old in New Jersey. Self sufficient, opinionated, outward façade hard as nails, inward but never to be seen publicly a golden heart. A real bitch and proud of it.

6a. see Jersey Girl

RockSlider, great definition; I consider myself educated. But definition #6 is still sexist though. Why did IHAQ even need to bring gender into play at all? Of course, it's totally possible he didn't mean to, as he keeps saying, but if that's the case he needs to realize what the terms mean that he uses, and he needs to stop using the ones whose definitions actually aren't as gender neutral as he thinks they are.

[_RockSlider]

KevinSim;

crazy part is those on the inside use it with pride and often addressed at each other, but totally unacceptable for outsiders to use it.

The N word is a perfect example

[_KevinSim]

So basically, I guess, if you see that someone is being made the recipient of what you believe are offensive remarks, wait to see how that person handles it. If they truly appear to be in distress, then by all means, step in. If it looks like they've been able to handle the situation then really, just leave it alone.

Jersey Girl, I don't think I ever thought you were in distress; I just felt like crying foul when the word bitchy was used. I see it every bit the moral equivalent of what Chap did to me, when he pointed out that I had talked about an illegitimate child, when what I should have done was talk about a child whose parents weren't married before s/he was born. I didn't think Chap was wrong to correct me; in fact I welcomed it; and for quite a while now I've been surprised that IHAQ got so offended when I tried to correct him, seeing as how he was the one that had first used the offensive word, not me.

What's equally hard to understand is that he at one point posted that he couldn't bring himself to repeat the word (the context made it clear that it was) bastard, and yet I was being a prude for not letting him use bitchy. Since when has bastard been a more offensive word than bitchy?

[_schreech]

The creators of the Norse Legends, the creator of the Greek Legends, J.R.R. Tolkien, and the creator of the Gilgamesh legend; didn't promote Odin, Zeus, Eru, and Aruru, respectively; as a deity who would grant any righteous request as long as the requester had enough faith. The authors of the Christian scriptures did.

Aside from being completely incorrect (you really don't stick your head out of your very small Mormon bubble very often do you?), are you actually saying that the reason you believe christian mythology (over other religious mythology) is because the creators promoted Christ as a deity who would grant any righteous request as long as you have enough faith?

by the way - "When Zeus arrived in the guise of a mortal, the couple were eager to show hospitality according to the laws of xenia (a specific code of guest-friendship dictating how to care for a guest, incidentally Zeus was the guardian of strangers and the enforcer of xenia) and they chose to kill their last goose to feed their guest. Seeing their generosity Zeus revealed himself and granted them both long life in the service of the gods as was their wish, and when they died Zeus transformed them both into oak trees who stood in front of his temple for centuries." http://www.ancientgreece.com/s/GreekGods/Zeus/

Pretty much the first thing that came up in a google search for "zuess granting requests", all they needed was faith in xenia and its enforcer Zeus. - I could find hundreds of these for all kinds of belief systems..

Im not sure you really thought this one through if that is the reason you believe the Christ myth...

I did and it is.

Either you haven't thought through the reasons why you worship Christ particularly deeply or you have no real reason to worship Christ over Zeus (or any of the other 100s of deities who, according to the myths, grant requests to faithful worshipers) beyond the coincidence that you happened to be born into christianity.

[_KevinSim]

The child isn't responsible for the choices of their bio parents, why let the choices of their parents follow them all the days of their lives and possibly limit the person they believe they can become?

This is precisely the point I was trying to make about the word bastard! Granted, I made what I now consider a huge mistake by choosing what I thought was a non-offensive word to replace it with, but I was trying to show IHAQ that just as use of the word bastard was in my opinion in poor taste, so also use of the word bitch (or bitchy) was in poor taste.

Doesn't the child deserve a chance to become a whole person in their own right, free of the choices of their parents, to realize their own self potential?

I agree 100%.

I'm telling you, as someone who has "bastards" dangling around on her family tree and who has invested more than half of my life advocating for children, the term "illegitimate" is unfair, unnecessary and misdirected. It is just as hurtful the child as the word "bastard" is.

And I'm sorry I ever used the word illegitimate.

In this context, and in my view only, the real bastards are the people who fail to claim responsibility to take care of their own children.

Once again I agree 100%.

Kevin, if you're wiling to give this some thought, and when it comes to the social status of children, whenever the word "illegitimate" comes to your mind regarding that, I'd like you to try to think in terms of...

"This child has a legitimate right to go about life without being judged or labeled by the choices of his/her parents".

I will do that.

Stick around, I'll reprogram you eventually! :-)

I welcome your reprogramming.

[_KevinSim]

KevinSim;

crazy part is those on the inside use it with pride and often addressed at each other, but totally unacceptable for outsiders to use it.

The N word is a perfect example

I agree completely.

[_Jersey Girl]

The child isn't responsible for the choices of their bio parents, why let the choices of their parents follow them all the days of their lives and possibly limit the person they believe they can become?

This is precisely the point I was trying to make about the word bastard! Granted, I made what I now consider a huge mistake by choosing what I thought was a non-offensive word to replace it with, but I was trying to show IHAQ that just as use of the word bastard was in my opinion in poor taste, so also use of the word bitch (or bitchy) was in poor taste.

Doesn't the child deserve a chance to become a whole person in their own right, free of the choices of their parents, to realize their own self potential?

I agree 100%.

I'm telling you, as someone who has "bastards" dangling around on her family tree and who has invested more than half of my life advocating for children, the term "illegitimate" is unfair, unnecessary and misdirected. It is just as hurtful the child as the word "bastard" is.

And I'm sorry I ever used the word illegitimate.

In this context, and in my view only, the real bastards are the people who fail to claim responsibility to take care of their own children.

Once again I agree 100%.

Kevin, if you're wiling to give this some thought, and when it comes to the social status of children, whenever the word "illegitimate" comes to your mind regarding that, I'd like you to try to think in terms of...

"This child has a legitimate right to go about life without being judged or labeled by the choices of his/her parents".

I will do that.

Stick around, I'll reprogram you eventually! :-)

I welcome your reprogramming.

I know that a lot of criticism has been directed your way, but I want you to know that I'm not trying to make you feel down on yourself. I just wanted to try to give you a bit more insight to the children who wear the labels we adults put on them.

Thanks for hearing me out, Kevin.

[_RockSlider]

I just wanted to try to give you a bit more insight to the children who wear the labels we adults put on them.

mamma bear for any child (crack in cast iron shell)