Genealogy is NOT of God??

[_jo1952]

According to Nephi, genealogy is not of God....that it is pleasing unto the world---but not to God:

1 Nephi 6:1 And now I, Nephi, do not give the genealogy of my fathers in this part of my record; neither at any time shall I give it after upon these plates which I am writing; for it is given in the record which has been kept by my father; wherefore, I do not write it in this work.
2 For it sufficeth me to say that we are descendants of Joseph.
3 And it mattereth not to me that I am particular to give a full account of all the things of my father, for they cannot be written upon these plates, for I desire the room that I may write of the things of God.
4 For the fulness of mine intent is that I may persuade men to come unto the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, and be saved.
5 Wherefore, the things which are pleasing unto the world I do not write, but the things which are pleasing unto God and unto those who are not of the world.

If I'm reading this correctly, the implications are huge! What else is written in the Book of Mormon that the Church is not able to see because She reads it through the eyes of vanity and unbelief?

D&C 84:54 And your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—

55 Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation.

56 And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all.

57 And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written—

[_hagoth7]

According to Nephi, genealogy is not of God....that it is pleasing unto the world---but not to God:

I think you're misreading the text.

[i]1 Nephi 6:1 And now I, Nephi, do not give the genealogy of my fathers in this part of my record; neither at any time shall I give it after upon these plates which I am writing; for it is given in the record which has been kept by my father; wherefore, I do not write it in this work.
2 For it sufficeth me to say that we are descendants of Joseph....

Nephi is apparently simply saying he's not going to take up space repeating something his father had already recorded, since he wanted to focus on leading people to Christ. That's quite different from saying there is no value in ancestry. If it had no importance at all, why would Nephi even bother to summarize his father's ancestry by repeating that they descended from Joseph?

Furthermore, if it isn't of value, why would the prophet Lehi have recorded his ancestry on his own record? And why is genealogy found in both the Old and New Testaments?

[_jo1952]

According to Nephi, genealogy is not of God....that it is pleasing unto the world---but not to God:

I think you're misreading the text.

1 Nephi 6:1 And now I, Nephi, do not give the genealogy of my fathers in this part of my record; neither at any time shall I give it after upon these plates which I am writing; for it is given in the record which has been kept by my father; wherefore, I do not write it in this work.
2 For it sufficeth me to say that we are descendants of Joseph....

Nephi is apparently simply saying he's not going to take up space repeating something his father had already recorded, since he wanted to focus on leading people to Christ. That's quite different from saying there is no value in ancestry. If it had no importance at all, why would Nephi even bother to summarize his father's ancestry by repeating that they descended from Joseph?

Furthermore, if it isn't of value, why would the prophet Lehi have recorded his ancestry on his own record? And why is genealogy found in both the Old and New Testaments?

Lehi's words included things which were pleasing to the world. Jews were forever trying to show that their lineage could take them straight back to Abraham. In fact, the Jews were consumed with genealogy; there is much of it given in the New Testament as well. That does not mean that its presence is of God or even pleasing to God....it is just a reflection that the Jews gave genealogy a lot of importance.

It seems pretty clear that Nephi included genealogy in what was pleasing to the world for the very reason that he wasn't going to give it any space. I'm just reading the words that are there; I'm not trying to get those words to fit into the Church's accepted correlated agenda. When he does refer to Lehi's having written genealogy, and then by going on to say that he isn't going to take up space for the things that please the world, he is teaching an important truth---that genealogy is not of God---that genealogy is only pleasing to the world. He HAD to speak of Lehi's recording genealogy in order to teach ABOUT genealogy's not being of God.

Inasmuch as the Church also believes that God is not a respecter of persons, and that ALL are alike unto God, then what could God possibly care about a persons genealogy? The fact that the Jews thought they were chosen and special is merely indicative of their iniquity. It is in accordance with the idols in the hearts of men that the Lord allows a True Prophet to give the people what they want. In so doing, those idols/iniquity become a stumbling block to them.

Ezekiel 14:1 Then came certain of the elders of Israel unto me, and sat before me.

2 And the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,

3 Son of man, these men have set up their idols in their heart, and put the stumblingblock of their iniquity before their face: should I be inquired of at all by them?

4 Therefore speak unto them, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Every man of the house of Israel that setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to the prophet; I the Lord will answer him that cometh according to the multitude of his idols;

5 That I may take the house of Israel in their own heart, because they are all estranged from me through their idols.

Here we see Isaiah teaching the people that their religion and its trappings are an abomination to the Lord:

Isaiah 1:11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the Lord: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.

12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?

13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.

14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

Joseph, like Moses, gave the people religion and its trappings after they rejected the Lord's simple gospel message. We can even see that D&C 84 was received BEFORE the first Temple was built. The people wanted to be seen as special...they wanted religion...and they got it. Joseph first warned them about being under condemnation; and then followed it up with doing the same thing Moses did. In keeping with not interfering with the free will of people, Joseph served up the stumbling block of their own iniquity (the idols in their hearts).

Something else Jesus spoke quite simply:

Luke9:60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.

If work for the dead was important, I would think that this would have been an ideal moment to take to teach us something about it. Meanwhile, He actually says, "let the dead bury their dead". How can the dead physically bury the dead? Is He actually teaching us that the Jew's obsession with their genealogy has left them spiritually dead?

[_hagoth7]

... Is He actually teaching us that the Jew's obsession with their genealogy has left them spiritually dead?

There is a key difference between honoring your father and mother (which God commanded his people to do)...and obsessing over them.
Same goes with genealogy/family history, which is simply one way of honoring your more distant fathers and mothers.

So while I respect your right to believe what you wish, I disagree with your interpretation and your OP.

[_jo1952]

... Is He actually teaching us that the Jew's obsession with their genealogy has left them spiritually dead?

There is a key difference between honoring your father and mother (which God commanded his people to do)...and obsessing over them.
Same goes with genealogy/family history, which is simply one way of honoring your more distant fathers and mothers.

So while I respect your right to believe what you wish, I disagree with your interpretation and your OP.

I don't think I expressed myself well when I used the word "obsession" as being what might be leaving the Jews spiritually dead. I used that word because the Jews are obsessed with genealogy---just like the LDS. What I should have made more clear is that I think Jesus was teaching the Jews that any type of concern for the dead was leaving them spiritually dead. In other words, by making such a simple statement---and not going into detail, He gives the impression that the matter of the dead just isn't important enough to expand upon. As such, concern for the dead is a distraction from what is important. Or, to put it another way, focusing on the dead doesn't serve the dead or the living.

As far as honoring our mother and our father....this should be done to them (and to everyone) while they are living; not after they are dead. For Jesus to say in the first place "let the dead bury their dead" was certainly not a form of honoring the dead---actually it seems almost harsh since He knew how important the idea of the living giving respect to the dead was to the Jews. In fact, we can see that Jesus was speaking to a listener whose father it was who had died! It would seem that as far as Jesus was concerned, any responsibility for honoring your father and your mother ended once they were dead.

I do appreciate your respectful responses.

[_Franktalk]

hagoth7,

I believe there are two layers in which we are to view genealogy. On one hand we are to know that all of us are the same in the higher sense. We are all children of God in some fashion. The higher relationship with each other in our spirit is much more important than any temporal relationship we may have. So Jesus can point to a crowd and say these are my mothers and my fathers. In a higher sense that is true. We have all been together in eternity and have had a variety of relationships in the many worlds we have been on. On the other hand we are in this temporal plane and we must abide by some standards of behavior in this temporal plane while we are here. So Christ telling John to take care of His temporal mother is appropriate and is a measure of respect for this temporal existence.

But to spend time on genealogy of this world in which we spend time on the dead does not make sense. The dead have moved back to their greater self. We should respect the living and not the dead. To respect those who you remember or are alive is one thing. But to spend time on the dead in which you have no personal connection is to honor the body of flesh and not the spirit.

[_SteelHead]

Both Jo and Frank back to ping pong once again.

[_just me]

But to spend time on genealogy of this world in which we spend time on the dead does not make sense. The dead have moved back to their greater self. We should respect the living and not the dead. To respect those who you remember or are alive is one thing. But to spend time on the dead in which you have no personal connection is to honor the body of flesh and not the spirit.

When I do research on dead people I develop a connection with them...their memory. When we die, we live on in the hearts and memories of others or not at all.

Researching our own genealogy is a way to understand ourselves better and learn. Being related to people who participated in historical events brings those events to life and makes them more relevant. Many people feel that way.

I always have to laugh when people mock and deride the hobbies, interests and careers of others. The hobby of daily scripture study is no more virtuous than the hobby of studying the individual lives of dead people.

[_Franktalk]

Just Me,

If you obtain joy by researching the dead by all means continue. We all should have joy in our life.

[_jo1952]

I used to think that the following meant that there was just an urgency in the importance of listening to what Jesus spoke; which thus required that you should immediately drop everything you are doing and "follow him".

However, in view of 1Nephi 6:1-5, I am now thinking that in order to actually follow Him, you must stop worrying about the dead. To actually say "let the dead bury their dead"...which is physically impossible to do...(how can someone who is also dead bury others who are dead?)...now seems to imply that those who are concerned with the dead CANNOT actually also follow Jesus as they are ALSO dead in some way (spiritually?). In other words, they are concerned with something worldly; but not of God. So, in order to actually follow Jesus, you have to be able to also give up your concern about the dead. If you don't, you can't actually follow Him. Perhaps, another way to say it is that if you want to understand and receive the messages Jesus teaches, you won't be able to do so while being concerned about the dead.

"Matthew 8:21 And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.

22But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead."

" 1Nephi 6:1 And now I, Nephi, do not give the genealogy of my fathers in this part of my record; neither at any time shall I give it after upon these plates which I am writing; for it is given in the record which has been kept by my father; wherefore, I do not write it in this work.

2 For it sufficeth me to say that we are descendants of Joseph.

3 And it mattereth not to me that I am particular to give a full account of all the things of my father, for they cannot be written upon these plates, for I desire the room that I may write of the things of God.

4 For the fulness of mine intent is that I may persuade men to come unto the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, and be saved.

5 Wherefore, the things which are pleasing unto the world I do not write, but the things which are pleasing unto God and unto those who are not of the world."

He wasn't just speaking about an urgency, He was telling us you can't actually follow Him if you are concerned about the dead! Looking toward the dead leaves you dead in some other way---spiritually out of touch with the things that are pleasing unto God. Nephi's message reinforced this!

It seems that the work the Church does for the dead is evidence that She is NOT following Christ!!

Yes, just me, we "feel" some type of connection to the memory of the dead....but this is caused by our being in the mortal world. It has nothing to do with pleasing God or pleasing unto those who are not of this world....and those feelings and activities (while causing us to feel good for whatever reason we do them--or for whatever we believe about them) do not serve us or them anywhere else than in this mortal world---they are a worldly treasure and pleasure.

So what about the physically dead----aren't they who Nephi spoke were not of this world....and our genealogy efforts do NOT please them?

So, what is the truth that Christ wanted the people to understand when He spoke those simple words? What truth are we distracting ourselves from while we concern ourselves with things that only please the world? At the very least, I think our ideas and thoughts and concerns and connections with the dead only serve to keep us from being able to see and hear the real truth about who we are, why we are here, and what is really going on here.