Epic Mormonism Live on Rosebud Accusations

[jpatterson]

That's why she withdrew the complaint when he showed proof there was no quid-pro-quo.

False.

[pistolero]

Defending someone's position is not the same as speaking for them. The problem is that I know you know this. And I know that you know it's no one's job to tell John Dehlin what the right thing to do here is. I know that you're not arguing the above point in good faith.

My gosh, that last message was like having a testimony meeting vomit on me.

All these things that are known knowns, are there any known unknowns in all of this? or unknown unknowns? unknown knowns? That doesn't make any sense. Bed.

False.

That's very Dwight K Schrute of you.

[jpatterson]

You copied and pasted verbatim what she sent you (it's still in her first person voice) so she's quite capable of telling us, through you, what John needs to say to end this.

Your problem continues to be that you make a lot of assumptions (admittedly, this is the pot calling the kettle black). I typed that entire post out by hand and wrote it from Rosebud's perspective based on information I had, not Rosebud's own words.

You've been barking up this tree since Page 3. It's pathetic.

[drumdude]

I typed that entire post out by hand and wrote it from Rosebud's perspective based on information I had, not Rosebud's own words.

Why?

[jpatterson]

Why?

Why not? What does it matter? Nothing I say is going to convince you that I am not secretly using a decoder ring to relay messages back and forth via carrier pigeon between me and Rosebud, acting as her official spokesperson.

[drumdude]

So she just dumped the documents on you and not a word since?

[jpatterson]

So she just dumped the documents on you and not a word since?

I'm not going to talk about my personal correspondence with Rosebud here. The only thing of relevance in the context of this discussion that you need to know is that I don't, and haven't, spoken for her. What I say is what I think and what I have interpreted based on my interactions with her.

She speaks for herself. I speak for myself. John can speak for himself. To suggest that John needs to be told what to say by me is silly.

[Esme]

I don’t think Rosebud is wrong in believing that John Dehlin engaged in an inappropriate relationship with her. I just believe that she only decided not to consent to that relationship until a couple of months after it was over.

In JD's Aug 10th email, he says:

But we fell in love. And it wasn't just me manipulating you. You fell in love with me too. And we roped each other in .... probably partly intentionally (at times) and partly unintentionally at times. But we both fell. And I won't ever accept any narrative to the contrary. Ever.

This suggests that Rosebud has already voiced that she felt manipulated. In this email, he's here to push back on that. Saying he won't accept any other narrative than the one that puts them equally at fault.

It sounds like she voiced something before she was asked by the board to resign, before she was fired, before all of that.

It seems a little unfair to suggest this is all something she came up with months later after the termination of the relationship. It seems like she was trying to voice something at the time.

[jpatterson]

It seems a little unfair to suggest this is all something she came up with months later after the termination of the relationship. It seems like she was trying to voice something at the time.

The framing of John comparing falling in love to being manipulated is strange and/or creepy, depending on one's perspective.

"I manipulated you, which resulted in you falling in love with me, so none of this is my fault" is, how shall we say, not normal.

The above also highlights why it's futile to base any conclusion on the existence or non-existence of some "smoking gun" artifact. There was a ton that was said and not said between all the emails and text messages.

[drumdude]

Anne on Aug 9: "I just love you. I would make some very very nice love to you. It's hard not to seduce you. You should give me lots of credit here."

Sounds like that's what Dehlin means when he talks about "we roped each other in." Their whole relationship was dancing around the taboo/shame/guilt of turning their affair into a full blown one with actual sex.