Is God changing?

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_SteelHead
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Re: Is God changing?

Post by _SteelHead »

In the US slavery was defended by Christians as biblical by quoting the Bible. It was chattel slavery, as was the ownership of non Jewish slaves in the Old Testament. You seem to be ignoring the bits where non Jewish and certain female slaves, were slaves for life.

The crusades also included aggressive periods by the Christians. Christians are just as guilty as anyone of growing religion at the point of a sword, and of raping. murdering, pillaging, and other horrendous acts. See the 30 year war for more examples.

Christianity is the biblical answer to Judaism for you, obviously not for the Jews, or any other non Christian people.

Colonialism was greatly influenced by religion, and again colonialism has been a vector by which Christianity was forced onto people by sword. Genocide resulted.

Christians have been responsible for atrocities just like every other religion. There are two sides to all stories. You only want to view one and then attribute the good parts to god. The attribution is less than tenuous. That you are trying to link this attribution as evidence that Christianity is true is such flimsy reasoning as to be laughable. All religions and cultures have produced both good and bad elements.
It is better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener at war.

Some of us, on the other hand, actually prefer a religion that includes some type of correlation with reality.
~Bill Hamblin
_moksha
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Re: Is God changing?

Post by _moksha »

SteelHead wrote:Are you obliquely referencing the "Is hell endothermic or exothermic" question?

Only to the extent that the death and taxes maxim relates to a cold day in hell.
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_ludwigm
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Re: Is God changing?

Post by _ludwigm »

SteelHead wrote:Are you obliquely referencing the "Is hell endothermic or exothermic" question?

Heaven is at least 80 ºC or 145 ºF hotter than Hell.

See http://www.religioustolerance.org/hell_tem.htm for the equations.
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco
- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
_LittleNipper
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Re: Is God changing?

Post by _LittleNipper »

SteelHead wrote:In the US slavery was defended by Christians as biblical by quoting the Bible. It was chattel slavery, as was the ownership of non Jewish slaves in the Old Testament. You seem to be ignoring the bits where non Jewish and certain female slaves, were slaves for life.

The crusades also included aggressive periods by the Christians. Christians are just as guilty as anyone of growing religion at the point of a sword, and of raping. murdering, pillaging, and other horrendous acts. See the 30 year war for more examples.

Christianity is the biblical answer to Judaism for you, obviously not for the Jews, or any other non Christian people.

Colonialism was greatly influenced by religion, and again colonialism has been a vector by which Christianity was forced onto people by sword. Genocide resulted.

Christians have been responsible for atrocities just like every other religion. There are two sides to all stories. You only want to view one and then attribute the good parts to god. The attribution is less than tenuous. That you are trying to link this attribution as evidence that Christianity is true is such flimsy reasoning as to be laughable. All religions and cultures have produced both good and bad elements.


You have a very shallow understanding of Christianity. Thomas Jefferson had slaves. What exactly was his excuse? The Underground Railroad only could work if there were those in the South sympathetic with the anti-slavery movement. Actually, Bible believing Christians, once called Born Againers and now Evangelical Fundamentalists, have always been a small minority. I believe you will find that most slave owners in South were Anglican or Catholic. And I know that with a little research, you will discover that not every denomination was equally divided on the issue of slavery as you try to paint. In fact it were primarily Evangelicals and not atheists who started the Anti-Slavery Movement.

As for the rest of it, you are the one who insists Hitler was a pro Christian. The truth is far stranger!
Last edited by Guest on Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
_SteelHead
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Re: Is God changing?

Post by _SteelHead »

Where have I ever argued anything about Hitler? Nice straw man.

Most US slave owners were Anglicans, or Catholics? You making up statistics on the spot?

In August, 1832, my master attended a Methodist camp-meeting held in the Bay-side, Talbot county, and there experienced religion. I indulged a faint hope that his conversion would lead him to emancipate his slaves, and that, if he did not do this, it would, at any rate, make him more kind and humane. I was disappointed in both these respects. It neither made him to be humane to his slaves, nor to emancipate them. If it had any effect on his character, it made him more cruel and hateful in all his ways; for I believe him to have been a much worse man after his conversion than before. Prior to his conversion, he relied upon his own depravity to shield and sustain him in his savage barbarity; but after his conversion, he found religious sanction and support for his slaveholding cruelty. He made the greatest pretensions to piety. His house was the house of prayer. He prayed morning, noon, and night.…I have said my master found religious sanction for his cruelty. As an example, I will state one of many facts going to prove the charge. I have seen him tie up a lame young woman, and whip her with a heavy cowskin upon her naked shoulders, causing the warm red blood to drip; and, in justification of the bloody deed, he would quote this passage of Scripture — “He that knoweth his master’s will, and doeth it not, shall be beaten with many stripes.” ~Frederick Douglas


The biggest distinction between those for and against slavery in the US appears not to be denomination, but rather if you were in the north, or south.

While white Southern Baptist elites of 1845 agreed that human equality was wrongheaded and black slavery morally pure (most probably did not condone the enslavement of working class whites), they had not always believed thus. To be certain, the birthing of the pro-slavery Southern Baptist Convention in 1845 did not happen in a vacuum, nor was it necessarily inevitable.

Prior to the 1820s, many Baptists North and South were anti-slavery, reflective of larger views in the South at that time, a legacy of a pre-cotton economy. But by the mid-1840s Baptist sentiment in the South — at least as expressed in denominational leadership — largely perceived the enslavement of blacks as ordained of God.
http://civilwarbaptists.com/featured/slavery/
It is better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener at war.

Some of us, on the other hand, actually prefer a religion that includes some type of correlation with reality.
~Bill Hamblin
_subgenius
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Re: Is God changing?

Post by _subgenius »

SteelHead wrote:...

The biggest distinction between those for and against slavery in the US appears not to be denomination, but rather if you were in the north, or south.

...

But the country was united on considering colored people as being unequal to white, whether northern white or southern white.
Slavery and racism being mutually exclusive only to the North perhaps.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
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_LittleNipper
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Re: Is God changing?

Post by _LittleNipper »

subgenius wrote:
SteelHead wrote:...

The biggest distinction between those for and against slavery in the US appears not to be denomination, but rather if you were in the north, or south.

...

But the country was united on considering colored people as being unequal to white, whether northern white or southern white.
Slavery and racism being mutually exclusive only to the North perhaps.


The country has never been united with regard to skin color representing inferiority. There have always been those who see skin color as a unique part of one's description and not a logical sign of either brains or talent. Race is not something anyone can control --- character is. What someone does with the body God has provided him or her is under that individual's control. And that is what an individual should be judged by.

Again, the Underground Railroad would never have worked in recuing runaway slaves had ALL Southerners been united pro-slavery. They needed hiding spots and many ended up leaving the country for Canada due to governmental laws that forced the return of slaves.
_subgenius
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Re: Is God changing?

Post by _subgenius »

LittleNipper wrote:The country has never been united with regard to skin color representing inferiority.

No, the country has been united on that cause - just reference any and every historical record..and the same has been for countless other countries and communities.
A few minority outliers do not deny the position of unity.

LittleNipper wrote:There have always been those who see skin color as a unique part of one's description and not a logical sign of either brains or talent. Race is not something anyone can control --- character is.

Well, i do not know how you intend to prove that there have always been those...but nevertheless.
To assume that one's skin color, eye color, height, weight, etc. have no influence on their own sense of self and on their own expression of character seems to deny the reality of a body. It also begs the question of why the body exists at all - where the answer then stands in direct conflict with your proposal.

LittleNipper wrote:What someone does with the body God has provided him or her is under that individual's control. And that is what an individual should be judged by.

So, if you are black and you act white........i get ya now.

LittleNipper wrote:Again, the Underground Railroad would never have worked in recuing runaway slaves had ALL Southerners been united pro-slavery. They needed hiding spots and many ended up leaving the country for Canada due to governmental laws that forced the return of slaves.

I really don't get your point here. But i assume you want to define being "united" as synonymous with being unanimous when it comes to this subject.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_AmyJo
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Re: Is God changing?

Post by _AmyJo »

God doesn't change, at least not to our specifications.

We do, however, constantly change and grow throughout life. The alternative is death or stagnation.

The Universe is expanding at ever increasing rates. Hypotheses now exist that postulate there are multiple Universes and we're acquainted with only one.

At the rate of expansion, it is credulous to believe that perhaps God does change, given his realm is far superior to ours, but we can't begin to comprehend or appreciate his majesty including dominion, over all of Creation.

I don't know whether there are multiple gods or not. I only worship one, and that is the God of the Bible. That being said, I believe that if God is real then he is a great delegator. How else could he run such a big Universe?

I also believe he's a scientist. Our bodies are finely tuned works of engineering. And so is the cosmos, and everything in between. Only a being with knowledge unknown to our minds, could be able to create such a wonderment that we can only barely begin to comprehend.
_Amore
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Re: Is God changing?

Post by _Amore »

SteelHead wrote:I see God as a made up construct that represent the ideals and mores of those who "believe."

Yes, I think it is that, first, particularly in an individual's experience: "The kingdom (realm/experience) of God is within you."

Still, I think there is more evidence of "intelligent design."
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