Current GA Being Accused of Child Abuse; the 12 Ignore It

[_Simon Southerton]

Further Light and Knowledge from the Mormon Hub:

Kristin May Matthews: PLEASE don't give this guy any traction. I know him and his ex-wife and witnessed their divorce up close and personal. Ron Karren is an angry, paranoid narcissist who has spent his adult life defrauding people and persecuting through his "pro se" non stop legal persecutions of many people. He is literally insane. The courts no longer allow him to have a platform there and have sanctioned him for burdening the system with his frivolous lawsuits so now he is hoping a cleverly-edited video full of half-truths and outright lies will be his new platform. I hope your BS meter is going OFF.

[_LDSDoubter]

"...cleverly edited video full of half-truths and outright lies" Anyone else see the irony? Is the person who blogged about not listening to this guy a member of the church? I have seen members in my own ward lie protecting the church, so I would be more inclined to believe this is part of the Pace investigation unless a neutral source knows otherwise.

[_Jersey Girl]

I wonder if the two young girls remember anything and if so what? Obviously child testimony is a difficult issue but I still wonder what they say about this horrible accusation.

Not to mention it's an utterly meaningless accusation. Maybe the child development people could weigh in more specifically, but it's my understanding that children that age really can't form intent like that or have their behavior defined and judged as promiscuity.

I read the article, watched the video. Somebody kill me.

Here is a partial copy of the article:

This is a child abuse case where the LDS General Authority grandfather accused two six-year old girls of being promiscuous with him from age 3 to age 6.

Please share this video for the sake of ALL children of ALL religions.

Additional information from the owner of the video:
At the request of my daughter (and in support of her recent efforts to publicly address the accusations of her LDS General Authority grandfather against her at age 6--accusing her of being promiscuous with him from approximately age 3 to age 6): I am re-posting this video.

From the get go, the accusation is intended to manipulate in favor of the male adult GA. The charge is that the 6 year old child was promiscuous with HIM.

I'll answer your question, Lemmie, then float you a theory. A child age 6 years, will act out sexual abuse when the child him or herself has been sexually abused. In those cases, children are revisiting the abuse by taking on the role of victim as well as abuser. (Just like the young girls that faqs mentioned). They do so in an attempt to understand and process the abuse, and to re-experience what may have been pleasurable sensations.

Here's my theory. The girl in this case was allegedly abused from ages 3-6 years. It was only when she was 6 years old that the male adult GA rejected the interaction. Why? Because she was capable of accurately articulating the interaction in a description to someone else so he nipped it in the bud by turning the tables on her in order to shut it down and take attention away from himself and place it on to her.

Depraved asshole.

The father in the video is telling the truth. I saw no evidence of lying in him.

[_Jersey Girl]

I wonder if the two young girls remember anything and if so what? Obviously child testimony is a difficult issue but I still wonder what they say about this horrible accusation.

They could. Metamemory begins to kick in, ballpark age 7. (That's why faqs magic number for what he remembers doing intentionally is 7) In cases where a child has been intimately violated by a non-family member, yes, the memory could easily stay with them.

I don't know what the SOL is in Utah or if both cases took place in Utah, but in some states the clock on the SOL in cases of child abuse starts ticking when the child realizes they were abused. That is to say, hypothetically, the girls could be 16 or older and still successfully file charges and move forward with a case resulting in conviction.

[_kairos]

As a nonmember and having worked with many survivors of priest sexual abuse,I sense something happened here.
Ron should forget about any formal channels to consider the case.
If someone had his email please tell him to go first to LA times and second the Dallas morning news- investigative reporters will quickly sort out truth half truth and falsity and decide if a legit story is there.
If so the power of the press will damage the Mormon ship in a big way.

[_Jersey Girl]

I wonder if the two young girls remember anything and if so what? Obviously child testimony is a difficult issue but I still wonder what they say about this horrible accusation.

They could. Metamemory begins to kick in, ballpark age 7. (That's why faqs magic number for what he remembers doing intentionally is 7) In cases where a child has been intimately violated by a non-family member, yes, the memory could easily stay with them.

I don't know what the SOL is in Utah or if both cases took place in Utah, but in some states the clock on the SOL in cases of child abuse starts ticking when the child realizes they were abused. That is to say, hypothetically, the girls could be 16 or older and still successfully file charges and move forward with a case resulting in conviction.

I want to add to what I stated in the above post before people start sharing their childhood memories. ;-) Yes, you can retain a memory prior to age 6/7. I have one myself from around ages 2-2.5 years but it needed to be confirmed by my mother.

[_Jersey Girl]

As a nonmember and having worked with many survivors of priest sexual abuse,I sense something happened here.
Ron should forget about any formal channels to consider the case.
If someone had his email please tell him to go first to LA times and second the Dallas morning news- investigative reporters will quickly sort out truth half truth and falsity and decide if a legit story is there.
If so the power of the press will damage the Mormon ship in a big way.

kairos,

What do you think about my theory that the reason the GA rejected the child at age 6 because that was when she could accurately articulate the experience to someone else?

[_I have a question]

Washing dirty linen and repentance are intrinsically linked. Sin brings an uncleanliness before the Lord that must be reconciled. There is, however, a time and a place for confession and asking forgiveness. The scope of those parameters depends on the nature and the magnitude of the sin. Where there has been a public offense or a violation of public trust, the responsibility would be to air that wrongdoing in public and ask forgiveness. The span of our responsibility in repentance is to the Lord, His servants, and those we have offended.

There is a parallel between our garments being washed clean through the blood of the Lamb and how we wash our own dirty linen. It is through His atoning sacrifice that our garments will be cleansed. The scriptural reference to garments encompasses our whole being. The need for cleansing comes as we become soiled through sin. The judgment and forgiving are the Savior’s prerogative, for only He can forgive and wash away our sins. 4

When King Benjamin gave his great sermon in the land of Zarahemla, 5 the Saints changed their hearts, 6 and there was peace and prosperity throughout the land. Time went by, and Alma was called to preside over the Church. Caught up in their prosperity, some of the members of the Church fell into sin. Alma’s heart was troubled when they were brought before him. Not knowing how to handle the problem, he took them before King Mosiah, but the king remanded them to Alma’s judgment.

Fearing to do wrong in the sight of God, Alma poured out his whole soul to God and pled with Him for answers as to how to handle the transgressors. Because of Alma’s great love for his fellowman and his fervent desire to do God’s will, the Lord blessed him mightily, even with a promise of eternal life. Then the Lord explained to him why his pleading for understanding in judgment was so important, saying: “This is my Church. It is my name through which they will be saved. It is through my sacrifice. It is I who will judge.” 7

How often do we forget who has the right to judge? Forgiveness of sin depends on Him, not on us. So the next time we are tempted to hang dirty linen in public, let us remember:

First, go to the Lord.

Second, go to the one we have offended.

Third, if necessary, go to our judge in Israel.

And fourth, then put it away.

Another side of exposing dirty linen is the carnal, insatiable appetite that some have to expose the faults of others. The Lord challenged Job as he was chafing under his burden: “Wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?” 8 This can happen even in the family, when one, supposing he is protecting his own good name, exposes in elaborate detail the faults and mistakes of his siblings, his children, or his parents in a form of self-justification designed to alleviate his personal pain.

https://www.LDS.org/general-conference/ ... n?lang=eng

Poignant?

[_Chap]

Ah.

The Atonement, Repentance, and Dirty Linen
Lynn A. Mickelsen
Of the First Quorum of the Seventy

An expanded version of the advice given (which is of course in no way intended to be taken as referring to Elder Mickelsen, and is entirely hypothetical) might be:

First, go to the Lord.
He will assure you that nothing matters to him more than protecting the good name of General Authorities and generally avoiding PR s**t-storms for his church.

Second, go to the one we have offended.
Tell them it's their fault, and they need to shut up about what happened.

Third, if necessary, go to our judge in Israel.
Get him to pull all the strings necessary to ensure the FP/12 know the score, and call in all necessary favors from any police, lawyers or judges who might be involved.

And fourth, then put it away
And do up your zip carefully afterwards.

[_I have a question]

I think there are some very telling factors that give Ron Karren and his accusations credibility.

1. He won (uncontested?) custody of the children.
2. The Church aren't litigating against him for slander/libel.

I note also that Mickelson was made emeritus in October 2009.

I wonder what else Ron has on tape...