Bible verse by verse

[_Gunnar]

Let's cut to the chase. Some want to be able to have sex with whomever they wish, in as many ways they can concoct, with as many people as they feel lead.
Some don't wish to feel any remorse for whatever they take into their head to do.
Some want to be left alone to live their lives as they deem fit no matter whom they hurt or use to get exactly what they think they deserve.
Some do not wish to answer to anyone other than themselves.
Some would rather the likes of "Bible thumpers" remain quit so they could pursue their desires without any feelings of guilt or embarrassment.
Some imagine shame is a dirty word that doesn't belong in the dictionary ---- particularly theirs!
Some naïvely think they are invincible and that wanton pleasure doesn't come at a terrible cost to one's health, wealth, life, and regard for eternity.
Some use the Bible indiscriminately out of context to justify their own behavior patterns and habits.
Some imagine that if they got everything they desired the way they wanted that they would be happy. But even without the Bible such would soon find life empty and rather short.

LittleNipper, even if it were true (which even you must realize is not the case, if you have even an ounce of honesty and humanity left in you) that those were the only reasons that people question the infallibility of the Bible, they pale into insignificance compared to the atrocities and abominations condoned and even commanded by God, according to the Bible. If you are not at all disturbed by these horrible atrocities commanded and/or condoned by God in the Bible, there is something very seriously wrong with you!

There is a frighteningly narrow line between believing that God was actually responsible for those abominations recounted in the Bible and deciding that one has been called by God to commit similar atrocities in his name. You know full well that there have already been numerous murders and atrocities in history committed by people suffering from the delusion that God commanded them to do it. It is not uncommon for such lunatics to find their inspiration for doing so from the horrible examples they read about in the Bible.

To me, it is almost infinitely more likely that the ancient Israelites invented the fiction, after the fact, that God commanded these atrocities, in order to justify and salve their consciences for atrocities they or their ancestors had already committed, than that God actually commanded them.

[Guest]

Let's cut to the chase. Some want to be able to have sex with whomever they wish, in as many ways they can concoct, with as many people as they feel lead.
Some don't wish to feel any remorse for whatever they take into their head to do.
Some want to be left alone to live their lives as they deem fit no matter whom they hurt or use to get exactly what they think they deserve.
Some do not wish to answer to anyone other than themselves.
Some would rather the likes of "Bible thumpers" remain quit so they could pursue their desires without any feelings of guilt or embarrassment.
Some imagine shame is a dirty word that doesn't belong in the dictionary ---- particularly theirs!
Some naïvely think they are invincible and that wanton pleasure doesn't come at a terrible cost to one's health, wealth, life, and regard for eternity.
Some use the Bible indiscriminately out of context to justify their own behavior patterns and habits.
Some imagine that if they got everything they desired the way they wanted that they would be happy. But even without the Bible such would soon find life empty and rather short.

LittleNipper, even if it were true that those were the only reasons that people question the infallibility of the Bible (which even you must realize is not true, if you have even an ounce of honesty and humanity left in you), they pale into insignificance compared to the atrocities and abominations condoned and even commanded by God, according to the Bible. If you are not at all disturbed by these horrible atrocities commanded and/or condoned by God in the Bible, there is something very seriously wrong with you!

There is a frighteningly narrow line between believing that God was actually responsible for those abominations recounted in the Bible and deciding that one has been called by God to commit similar atrocities in his name. You know full well that there have already been numerous murders and atrocities in history committed by people suffering from the delusion that God commanded them to do it. It is not uncommon for such lunatics to find their inspiration for doing so from the horrible examples they read about in the Bible.

To me, it is almost infinitely more likely that the ancient Israelites invented the fiction, after the fact, that God commanded these atrocities, in order to justify and salve their consciences for atrocities they or their ancestors had already committed, than that God actually commanded them.

Atrocities? abominations? Are speaking of God here? God can do no wrong, anymore than a Lionel railroad aficionado/hobbyist is a monster because he dismantles a train layout he himself created. God (as with the hobbyist) created to please HIMSELF. Neither owed anything to their creation ever! And yet God paid the ultimate sacrifice in order that even just one of His creation might be saved. GOD choose to intervene on our behalf!

And the reality is that God really must put those who love Him (or who will eventually come to love Him) before anyone else. Those that choose to ignore GOD, and even attempt to beguile those who are drawn towards GOD --- imperil themselves. They get exactly what they deserve; a place where God will forever withhold any interference whatsoever forever.

In the case of Israel, GOD was separating to HIMSELF for HIS divine purpose (Christ's coming) a living illustration to the world of what absolute perfection/sinlessness entails. Evil cannot exist together WITH God. GOD's very nature will utterly consume it. GOD needed to reconcile fallen humanity to HIMSELF. GOD's creation itself was revolted by the sin of the pagans living in the land of Promise. And so all who rejected GOD and had not fled from Israel were to be annihilated or they would poison that relationship Israel had with the real GOD/Creator. Rehab the harlot, in fact, came to believe in the one true GOD and rejected the pagan ways of Jericho. As a result, a merciful GOD saved both her and her family.

Unfortunately, Israel ultimately neglected its task, and allowed pagans and child molesters/murderers to remain throughout the land. As a direct result Israel became influenced to become pagan and do exactly what the former inhabitants choose to do. This would eventually result on the dispersal of the nation of Israel throughout the world. The promise being that GOD would one day bring Israel back to its place of promise.

We are now in what is called the Age of GRACE or the CHURCH AGE. We are not bound to keeping the LAW because Jesus fulfilled the promise and became the LAW for us, so that ALL who will accept Christ's payment for their sins will be saved. The LAW is (by the Christian) followed out of devotion and not out of fear. When the rapture happens, the CHURCH AGE will end and those left behind will again be subject to the LAW. Christ will return with HIS CHURCH and subjugate the populous with a rod of iron (THE LAW).

[_LittleNipper]

Hi LittleNiptuck,

I see you have your binary blinders on. Where did you get them? Oh that's right, at your local Christian bookstore. (Hint: the binary vision you paint reality with is part of your fantasy world.)

I have known both atheists and various stripes of believers throughout my life and there is absolutely no correlation between goodness and acceptance of any particular religious fantasy. So your list has no effect in establishing the virtue or reality of your particular sky fairy of choice. After leaving the LDS faith I failed to see any such downturn in my life as well.

But my list on the other hand establishes your god to be the father of Jeffrey Dahmer, Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, Luis Garavito, etc. Belief in such a monster would have no benign influence upon my mind. If anything it would influence me to shoot my neighbor's dog the next time it barked at me as I stroll to the gym rather than ignore it.

Oh and I left out the book of Job where god agrees to the killing of Job's family members in order to enter into a wager with Satan. How noble a being he is! Holy, w_holy, wholly corrupt is he!

I feel that your problem stems from not ever being a Christian. You were a member of a social club and not a follower of Christ. The Bible is not the Book of Mormon and the Book of Mormon is not the inspired word of GOD ---- though it does contain bits and pieces from the Word of God. Goodness has much more to do with what one is willing to forgive than what one is willing to permit.

[_spotlight]

God can do no wrong

Then murder and genocide would not be wrong.

I feel that your problem stems from not ever being a Christian.

My problem like yours stemmed from not knowing enough facts about reality to determine that a young earth was a myth. The social club as you call it kept me too busy to investigate the matter but I had to because of my degree path. I leave you with another fact disproving the nonsense you accept as reality.

A relativistic jet is a jet of plasma that is ejected from some quasars and galaxy centers that have powerful magnetic fields. In super-massive bodies, immensely strong magnetic fields force plasma from the accretion disk into a jet that shoots away perpendicular to the face of the disk. In some cases, these columns of plasma have been found to extend far enough to refute the idea of a young universe.

For example, the quasar PKS 1127-145 has a relativistic jet exceeding one million light years in length. Because the speed of light cannot be exceeded, this column must be over one million years old. Moreover, these jets are generally billions of light years from Earth, meaning they were at least a million years old several billion years ago due, again, to the speed of light.

Even the light we see generated by the sun is generated in the core and requires 10,000 to 150,000 years just to reach the surface before embarking on the final 8 minute journey to reach the earth. Nothing about the YEC position makes sense. It is flatly contradicted by everything we see and find in nature. You will die waiting for your rapture.

[_Gunnar]

Atrocities? abominations? Are speaking of God here? God can do no wrong, anymore than a Lionel railroad aficionado/hobbyist is a monster because he dismantles a train layout he himself created. God (as with the hobbyist) created to please HIMSELF. Neither owed anything to their creation ever! And yet God paid the ultimate sacrifice in order that even just one of His creation might be saved. GOD choose to intervene on our behalf!

Yes indeed! Atrocities and abominations! I will not back down from that in the slightest! That you still can't see that further confirms my suggestion that there is something seriously wrong with you.

So God, in your view, is just a super hobbyist who created us just to please himself? Not only that, he deliberately made us to be subject and vulnerable to pain, suffering and sorrow (unlike a hobbyist's train layout) if we didn't turn out exactly like he wanted? It would have been more humane to never create us at all if he was too fallible a being to make things turn out the way he originally wanted. This makes God look like a selfish, self-indulgent, incompetant and uncaring bastard! If anything, you have only made God look even more atrocious and abominable! Or, perhaps, He wanted things to turn out the way they did because He is a sadist who enjoys inflicting pain and suffering? In a way, though, I was not really speaking of God per se. I was speaking more of the ancient Israelite religious charlatans who invented their concept of God in order to justify and excuse their own atrocities and abominations. I don't believe for a second that an all wise and loving being could not have done better by us or created a less easily corruptible reality that would never require such extreme corrective actions.

And the reality is that God really must put those who love Him (or who will eventually come to love Him) before anyone else. Those that choose to ignore GOD, and even attempt to beguile those who are drawn towards GOD --- imperil themselves. They get exactly what they deserve; a place where God will forever withhold any interference whatsoever forever.

Why did he single out one particular tribe or group of tribes instead of appearing to all groups of humans? Doesn't this belie the often repeated claim that God is not a respecter of persons? And why did He pick a group that eventually failed and disappointed Him so miserably? Couldn't He foresee that happening? It's like he had a sadistic desire to insure that He would have maximum justification to inflict more pain and suffering. Why would God love only those who believe in him, while at the same time giving so much cause to doubt His existence and not love him?

In the case of Israel, GOD was separating to HIMSELF for HIS divine purpose (Christ's coming) a living illustration to the world of what absolute perfection/sinlessness entails. Evil cannot exist together WITH God. GOD's very nature will utterly consume it. GOD needed to reconcile fallen humanity to HIMSELF. GOD's creation itself was revolted by the sin of the pagans living in the land of Promise. And so all who rejected GOD and had not fled from Israel were to be annihilated or they would poison that relationship Israel had with the real GOD/Creator. Rehab the harlot, in fact, came to believe in the one true GOD and rejected the pagan ways of Jericho. As a result, a merciful GOD saved both her and her family.

None of this makes any sense, nor does the very idea of Christ's atonement.

Unfortunately, Israel ultimately neglected its task, and allowed pagans and child molesters/murderers to remain throughout the land. As a direct result Israel became influenced to become pagan and do exactly what the former inhabitants choose to do. This would eventually result on the dispersal of the nation of Israel throughout the world. The promise being that GOD would one day bring Israel back to its place of promise.

And God could not have prevented this from happening? Why was he so unwise as to pick such losers?

We are now in what is called the Age of GRACE or the CHURCH AGE. We are not bound to keeping the LAW because Jesus fulfilled the promise and became the LAW for us, so that ALL who will accept Christ's payment for their sins will be saved. The LAW is (by the Christian) followed out of devotion and not out of fear. When the rapture happens, the CHURCH AGE will end and those left behind will again be subject to the LAW. Christ will return with HIS CHURCH and subjugate the populous with a rod of iron (THE LAW).

Yet more of this atonement nonsense invented by religious charlatans to scam and intimidate people into believing, without any credible evidence, they are doomed if they fail to swallow that mystical nonsense.

[_Maksutov]

God can do no wrong

Then murder and genocide would not be wrong.

I feel that your problem stems from not ever being a Christian.

My problem like yours stemmed from not knowing enough facts about reality to determine that a young earth was a myth. The social club as you call it kept me too busy to investigate the matter but I had to because of my degree path. I leave you with another fact disproving the nonsense you accept as reality.

A relativistic jet is a jet of plasma that is ejected from some quasars and galaxy centers that have powerful magnetic fields. In super-massive bodies, immensely strong magnetic fields force plasma from the accretion disk into a jet that shoots away perpendicular to the face of the disk. In some cases, these columns of plasma have been found to extend far enough to refute the idea of a young universe.

For example, the quasar PKS 1127-145 has a relativistic jet exceeding one million light years in length. Because the speed of light cannot be exceeded, this column must be over one million years old. Moreover, these jets are generally billions of light years from Earth, meaning they were at least a million years old several billion years ago due, again, to the speed of light.

Even the light we see generated by the sun is generated in the core and requires 10,000 to 150,000 years just to reach the surface before embarking on the final 8 minute journey to reach the earth. Nothing about the YEC position makes sense. It is flatly contradicted by everything we see and find in nature. You will die waiting for your rapture.

In order to make this intelligible to LN you need to use Lionel train set metaphors.

[Guest]

Atrocities? abominations? Are speaking of God here? God can do no wrong, anymore than a Lionel railroad aficionado/hobbyist is a monster because he dismantles a train layout he himself created. God (as with the hobbyist) created to please HIMSELF. Neither owed anything to their creation ever! And yet God paid the ultimate sacrifice in order that even just one of His creation might be saved. GOD choose to intervene on our behalf!

Yes indeed! Atrocities and abominations! I will not back down from that in the slightest! That you still can't see that further confirms my suggestion that there is something seriously wrong with you.

So God, in your view, is just a super hobbyist who created us just to please himself? Not only that, he deliberately made us to be subject and vulnerable to pain, suffering and sorrow (unlike a hobbyist's train layout) if we didn't turn out exactly like he wanted? It would have been more humane to never create us at all if he was too fallible a being to make things turn out the way he originally wanted. This makes God look like a selfish, self-indulgent, incompetant and uncaring bastard! If anything, you have only made God look even more atrocious and abominable! Or, perhaps, He wanted things to turn out the way they did because He is a sadist who enjoys inflicting pain and suffering? In a way, though, I was not really speaking of God per se. I was speaking more of the ancient Israelite religious charlatans who invented their concept of God in order to justify and excuse their own atrocities and abominations. I don't believe for a second that an all wise and loving being could not have done better by us or created a less easily corruptible reality that would never require such extreme corrective actions.

And the reality is that God really must put those who love Him (or who will eventually come to love Him) before anyone else. Those that choose to ignore GOD, and even attempt to beguile those who are drawn towards GOD --- imperil themselves. They get exactly what they deserve; a place where God will forever withhold any interference whatsoever forever.

Why did he single out one particular tribe or group of tribes instead of appearing to all groups of humans? Doesn't this belie the often repeated claim that God is not a respecter of persons? And why did He pick a group that eventually failed and disappointed Him so miserably? Couldn't He foresee that happening? It's like he had a sadistic desire to insure that He would have maximum justification to inflict more pain and suffering. Why would God love only those who believe in him, while at the same time giving so much cause to doubt His existence and not love him?

In the case of Israel, GOD was separating to HIMSELF for HIS divine purpose (Christ's coming) a living illustration to the world of what absolute perfection/sinlessness entails. Evil cannot exist together WITH God. GOD's very nature will utterly consume it. GOD needed to reconcile fallen humanity to HIMSELF. GOD's creation itself was revolted by the sin of the pagans living in the land of Promise. And so all who rejected GOD and had not fled from Israel were to be annihilated or they would poison that relationship Israel had with the real GOD/Creator. Rehab the harlot, in fact, came to believe in the one true GOD and rejected the pagan ways of Jericho. As a result, a merciful GOD saved both her and her family.

None of this makes any sense, nor does the very idea of Christ's atonement.

Unfortunately, Israel ultimately neglected its task, and allowed pagans and child molesters/murderers to remain throughout the land. As a direct result Israel became influenced to become pagan and do exactly what the former inhabitants choose to do. This would eventually result on the dispersal of the nation of Israel throughout the world. The promise being that GOD would one day bring Israel back to its place of promise.

And God could not have prevented this from happening? Why was he so unwise as to pick such losers?

We are now in what is called the Age of GRACE or the CHURCH AGE. We are not bound to keeping the LAW because Jesus fulfilled the promise and became the LAW for us, so that ALL who will accept Christ's payment for their sins will be saved. The LAW is (by the Christian) followed out of devotion and not out of fear. When the rapture happens, the CHURCH AGE will end and those left behind will again be subject to the LAW. Christ will return with HIS CHURCH and subjugate the populous with a rod of iron (THE LAW).

Yet more of this atonement nonsense invented by religious charlatans to scam and intimidate people into believing, without any credible evidence, they are doomed if they fail to swallow that mystical nonsense.

God is the Creator of a once perfect universe. Unfortunately, Adam & Eve listened to Satan and ruined it. I know I wouldn't have done better. Anyway, even then Adam blamed the Lord, "This woman you gave me made me ..." Today we have the same sort trying to blame God for the trouble in the world that they themselves help to promote. I can say that because simply ask them to consider the 10 Commandments:
ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'

FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'

FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'

SIX: 'You shall not murder.'

SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'

EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.'

NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'

The 10 Commandments - Christ's Summation about 1,400 years later, the 10 Commandments were summed up in the New Testament at Matthew 22, when Jesus was confronted by the religious "experts" of that day:

"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments" (Matthew 22:36-40).

It is intriguing to me that those that blame God are the first to say they want to act how they wish and do exactly what they want, and then say if God exists everything is His fault.
The gift of salvation is free. If what I say is a lie, then there is no loss to anyone. If what you say is a lie it comes at a very high cost.

[_spotlight]

How is it that being descendents of Adam and Eve humans have a bit of DNA that the black race does not (Neanderthal)?
How did the black race lose it? Or how did the rest of the human race obtain it?

The Denisovans’ DNA is found in our DNA as well. No trace of it is to be found except in the genomes of New Guineans, other people from islands in Melanesia, and Australian Aborigines. On average their genomes are about 5 percent Denisovan. Negritos in the Philippines have about 2.5 percent. Again how does a biblical model explain this fact? Did Adam have this DNA or not? If he had it how did we lose it? If not how did we obtain it?

Adam and Eve are a myth.

[_LittleNipper]

How is it that being descendents of Adam and Eve humans have a bit of DNA that the black race does not (Neanderthal)?
How did the black race lose it? Or how did the rest of the human race obtain it?

The Denisovans’ DNA is found in our DNA as well. No trace of it is to be found except in the genomes of New Guineans, other people from islands in Melanesia, and Australian Aborigines. On average their genomes are about 5 percent Denisovan. Negritos in the Philippines have about 2.5 percent. Again how does a biblical model explain this fact? Did Adam have this DNA or not? If he had it how did we lose it? If not how did we obtain it?

Race is a myth.

The myth of race http://web.mit.edu/racescience/in_media ... out_human/

[Guest]

Jeremiah 24:1-10

After king Jehoiakim of Judah's son Jehoiachin and officials, skilled workers and artisans of Judah were carried into exile from Jerusalem to Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, the Lord revealed for me two baskets of figs placed in front of the temple of the Lord.

One basket had very good figs, like those that ripen early. The other basket contained very bad uneatable figs.

Then the Lord asked, “What do you see, Jeremiah?”

“Figs,” I answered. “The good ones are very good, but the bad ones are so bad they're uneatable.”

Then the word of the Lord came to me:

“This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘Like these good figs, I regard as good the exiles taken from Judah, whom I sent from here to the realm of the Babylonians.

My eyes will watch over them for their good, and I will bring them back to this land. I will build them up and not tear them down; I will plant them and not dig them up.

I will give them a desire to know that I am the Lord. They will be my people, and I will be their God, for they will come back to Me with all their heart.

But like the bad figs, which are uneatable, I deal with Zedekiah king of Judah, his officials and the survivors from Jerusalem, whether they remain here or live in Egypt.

I will make them hated and an offense to all the kingdoms of the earth, a reproach and a curse word, and an object of ridicule, wherever I send them.

I will send the sword, famine and plague after them until they are wiped out from the land I gave to them and their ancestors.”


Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

1 Jehovah hath shewed me, and lo, two baskets of figs, appointed before the temple of Jehovah, -- after the removing by Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, of Jeconiah, son of Jehoiakim king of Judah, and the heads of Judah, and the artizan, and the smith, from Jerusalem, when he bringeth them into Babylon --

2 In the one basket [are] figs very good, like the first-ripe figs, and in the other basket [are] figs very bad, that are not eaten for badness.

3 And Jehovah saith unto me, `What art thou seeing, Jeremiah?' and I say, `Figs, the good figs [are] very good, and the bad [are] very bad, that are not eaten for badness.'

4 And there is a word of Jehovah unto me, saying:

5 Thus said Jehovah, God of Israel, Like these good figs so do I acknowledge The removed of Judah -- that I sent from this place, [To] the land of the Chaldeans -- for good.

6 And I have set Mine eyes on them for good, And have brought them back to this land, And built them up, and I throw not down, And have planted them, and pluck not up.

7 And have given to them a heart to know Me, For I [am] Jehovah, And they have been to Me for a people, And I am to them for God, For they turned back unto Me with all their heart.

8 And like the bad figs, that are not eaten for badness, Surely thus said Jehovah: So do I make Zedekiah king of Judah, And his heads, and the remnant of Jerusalem, Who are left in this land, And who are dwelling in the land of Egypt,

9 And I have given them for a trembling, For evil -- to all kingdoms of the earth, For a reproach, and for a simile, For a byword, and for a reviling, In all the places whither I drive them.

10 And I have sent against them the sword, The famine and the pestilence, Till their consumption from off the ground, That I gave to them and to their fathers!