LittleNipper wrote:God made two great light providers for earth, the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night.
The moon is not a light. It is a reflector only. The sun is not a light provider for the earth. If it was made 6,000 years ago then the light generated in its core (that is where light originates in the sun, in the core) has not yet reached the surface of the sun. It will take about another 4,000 to 144,000 years for that to happen. So the sun has not generated any light that has fallen upon the earth if it was created 6,000 years ago. So it is not a light provider.
Galileo was a greater prophet than any other man. He looked through the real Urim and Thummim and saw the moons of Jupiter. When he recorded the phases of Venus he proved the heliocentric model of the solar system. We've recently learned that he was the first discoverer of Neptune, although he didn't realize at the time that it was a planet. And in his time, there were people who refused to look through the telescope to confirm his discovery. And so we had the first Little Nippers and Franktalks, the ancestors to our modern Simplicios. They had the excuse that they were living in the 17th century. Nipper is here almost 50 years after we landed on the Moon. Delusion and ignorance are timeless.
This is what the Lord Almighty says: “Disasters will soon spread from country to country. They sweep across like a powerful storm to all the distant places on earth!"
The dead bodies of those executed by the Lord will reach across the earth. No one will cry for them. No one will pickup their bodies and bury them. They will be left lying on the ground like poop.
Shepherds, you should be leading the sheep. Start crying, you great leaders! Writhe on the ground in pain, you leaders of the sheep. It is now time for your slaughter. You will be scattered everywhere, like pieces flying when smashing a jar.
There will be no place for the shepherds to hide. They will not escape.
I hear the shepherds shouting --- the leaders of the sheep crying, because the Lord is destroying their pastures.
Those peaceful pastures will be ruined because of the Lord’s anger.
He is like an angry lion that has left his den. And because of His terrible anger and with attacks of the enemy army, their land will become an empty desert.
What an angry, raging, heartless psycho this Jehovah is. What a petulant uncaring, irrational butcher. As Richard Dawkins described him, "the most unpleasant character in all fiction." It does not reflect well on you that you venerate and worship this. How is he any different from a crazy jihadi blowing up a public square? He's just as insensitive to death and pain. More than anything, what a lousy abusive father he is. A father who murders his children for their disobedience? He should be locked up, and he is, in the minds of his believers, because that is the only place he exists.
Richard Dawkins is an old fool who doesn't believe that sin exists or anything he does is wrong. The jihadi do what they do to earn their eternity. I don't believe for a moment that they will enjoy what they earned. God created everything. It is His to do what He wishes and doesn't belong to anyone else to judge otherwise.
LittleNipper wrote:God made two great light providers for earth, the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night.
The moon is not a light. It is a reflector only. The sun is not a light provider for the earth. If it was made 6,000 years ago then the light generated in its core (that is where light originates in the sun, in the core) has not yet reached the surface of the sun. It will take about another 4,000 to 144,000 years for that to happen. So the sun has not generated any light that has fallen upon the earth if it was created 6,000 years ago. So it is not a light provider.
The stars are not reflectors and even a reflector provides light. God made Adam a 30 something year old man likely possessing a navel. And created full grown trees complete with rings as prototypes of things to come. Your misgivings concerning the sun would seem a simple miracle in comparison.
spotlight wrote:Galileo was a greater prophet than any other man. He looked through the real Urim and Thummim and saw the moons of Jupiter. When he recorded the phases of Venus he proved the heliocentric model of the solar system. We've recently learned that he was the first discoverer of Neptune, although he didn't realize at the time that it was a planet. And in his time, there were people who refused to look through the telescope to confirm his discovery. And so we had the first Little Nippers and Franktalks, the ancestors to our modern Simplicios. They had the excuse that they were living in the 17th century. Nipper is here almost 50 years after we landed on the Moon. Delusion and ignorance are timeless.
Speak for yourself! I have no problem looking through microscopes and telescopes and accepting what I can see. And I am not like yourself --- not believing in an invisible God because I think myself too sophisticated and not believing what I cannot!
PS --- The scientists of the moon landing were very concerned that the moon was covered by a very thick layer of cosmic dust --- given the "fact" that the moon was billions of years old in collecting it. Seems they really overestimated...
No where in the Bible does it read that the Universe evolves around the earth. No where does it say that the solar system evolves around the earth. The "experts" of that time believed such stuff --- the very same ones who instituted the Inquisition against Bible believers.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Apr 20, 2016 2:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
LittleNipper wrote: Speak for yourself! I have no problem looking through microscopes and telescopes and accepting what I can see. And I am not like yourself --- not believing in an invisible God because I think myself too sophisticated and not believing what I cannot!
PS --- the scientists of the moon landing were very concerned that the moon was covered by a very thick layer of cosmic dust --- given the "fact" that the moon was billions of years old in collecting it. Seems they really overestimated...
No where in the Bible does it read that the universe evolves around the earth. No where does it say that the solar system evolves around the earth. The "experts" of that time believed such stuff --- the very same ones who instituted the Inquisition against Bible believers.
The Greeks didn't believe it. What are you going on about the inquisition? Catholics had one but then Protestants did their own.
Some astronomers thought there was a lot of dust and others didn't. But guess how they resolved it? They went there and found out. That's called "science", Nipper. You don't find it in iron age texts written by shepherds and tax collectors.
I'm going to do astrophotography tonight, Nipper. The Moon, Jupiter, Mars and Saturn. I'll see sights that your prophets couldn't imagine. And they're real. I didn't have to look them up in a book and I don't have to pray for them. You're living in a fundamentalist fantasy. Your God is too small.
LittleNipper wrote: Speak for yourself! I have no problem looking through microscopes and telescopes and accepting what I can see. And I am not like yourself --- not believing in an invisible God because I think myself too sophisticated and not believing what I cannot!
PS --- the scientists of the moon landing were very concerned that the moon was covered by a very thick layer of cosmic dust --- given the "fact" that the moon was billions of years old in collecting it. Seems they really overestimated...
No where in the Bible does it read that the universe evolves around the earth. No where does it say that the solar system evolves around the earth. The "experts" of that time believed such stuff --- the very same ones who instituted the Inquisition against Bible believers.
Some astronomers thought there was a lot of dust and others didn't. But guess how they resolved it? They went there and found out.
But they never say why. They know that Cosmic dust falls at a given rate per year. The moon has no life and so there is no chance for disturbance.... Additionally, the Ptolemaic system is a description of the universe, where the Earth is at the center of all the celestial bodies. This model served as the predominant cosmological system in many ancient civilizations such as ancient Greece including the noteworthy systems of Aristotle and Ptolemy. As such, they believed that the Sun, Moon, stars, and the then observed planets circled Earth.
LittleNipper wrote:The stars are not reflectors and even a reflector provides light. God made Adam a 30 something year old man likely possessing a navel. And created full grown trees complete with rings as prototypes of things to come. Your misgivings concerning the sun would seem a simple miracle in comparison.
The point was you stated the sun was created to provide light. It could not have done that in only 6,000 years time since the light the sun creates is created at the core and takes 10,000 to 150,000 years to reach the surface. Sure your magic imaginary god can do whatever you make up on the spot but the sun can't be created as a source of light in the picture you paint under the influence of your fantasy.
And as you cave in and are backed into a corner to use the "created with age" defense (admission that you have no evidence to back up your position) you are stuck with an enigma. DNA has to be arranged in a certain manner to allow created lifeforms to exist as they are. It is a big pill to swallow that the proper arrangement of the various genomes just happens to coincide with the apparent evolution of life arising from common ancestry. That basically disproves the created with age argument.
Kolob’s set time is “one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest” (Abraham 3:4). I take this as a round number. - Gee
LittleNipper wrote:PS --- The scientists of the moon landing were very concerned that the moon was covered by a very thick layer of cosmic dust --- given the "fact" that the moon was billions of years old in collecting it. Seems they really overestimated...
Claim CE101: Based on measured rates of planetary dust accumulation, there is too little moon dust for an old moon. Before the moon landings, there was considerable fear that astronauts would sink in the dust. Source:
Morris, Henry M., 1974. Scientific Creationism, Green Forest, AR: Master Books, p. 152.
Response: 1. The high number for dust accumulation (14 million tons per year on earth) comes from the high end of a single preliminary measurement that has long been obsolete. Other higher estimates come from even more obsolete sources, although they are sometimes incorrectly cited as being more recent. The actual influx is about 22,000 to 44,000 tons per year on earth and around 840 tons per year on the moon.
The story that scientists worried about astronauts sinking in moon dust is a total fabrication. As early as 1965, scientists were confident, based on optical properties of the moon's surface, that dust was not extensive. Surveyor I, in May 1966, confirmed this.
Even mainstream creationists have abandoned that argument years ago and have encouraged their fellow creationists to stop embarrassing themselves and the creationist movement by repeating it. From the first link in the above quote:
Morris chooses to pick obsolete data with known problems, and call it the "best" measurement available. His calculations are based on a figure that is nearly three orders of magnitude too high. With the proper values, the expected depth of meteoritic dust on the moon is less than one foot.
For further information, see (Dalrymple 1984, pp. 108-111) or (Strahler 1987, pp. 143-144).
There is a recent creationist technical paper on this topic which admits that the depth of dust on the moon is concordant with the mainstream age and history of the solar system (Snelling and Rush 1993). Their abstract concludes with:
"It thus appears that the amount of meteoritic dust and meteorite debris in the lunar regolith and surface dust layer, even taking into account the postulated early intense bombardment, does not contradict the evolutionists' multi-billion year timescale (while not proving it). Unfortunately, attempted counter-responses by creationists have so far failed because of spurious arguments or faulty calculations. Thus, until new evidence is forthcoming, creationists should not continue to use the dust on the moon as evidence against an old age for the moon and the solar system."
Even though the creationists themselves have refuted this argument, (and refutations from the mainstream community have been around for at least a decade longer than that), the "moon dust" argument continues to be propagated in their "popular" literature, and continues to appear in talk.origins on a regular basis:
(Baker 1976, p. 25) (Brown 1989, pp. 17 and 53) (Jackson 1989, pp. 40-41) (Jansma 1985, pp. 62-63) (Whitcomb and Morris 1961, pp. 379-380) (Wysong 1976, pp. 166-168)
From the second link in that same quote:
2. The most amazing thing about the cosmic dust argument is that it is still being used! It has coasted along on obsolete evidence, and nothing but obsolete evidence, for the last 25 years!! It nicely illustrates how creationists borrow from each other and never do any outside reading.
By even trying to use that argument you have only succeeded in further discrediting yourself and your POV (as you almost invariably do).
No precept or claim is more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison
On the other hand, I don't think it is likely that even LittleNipper believes all the nonsense he posts on this forum. I concur with DrW that LN is mainly an attention craving troll who posts this nonsense to get our reactions to it. I, for one, have learned a lot from reading the various responses and rebuttals to his nonsense, so it hasn't been a complete waste. Maybe even LN will eventually learn something useful from that. That doesn't seem very likely, but, for his sake, I hope he does.
No precept or claim is more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison
LittleNipper wrote:The stars are not reflectors and even a reflector provides light. God made Adam a 30 something year old man likely possessing a navel. And created full grown trees complete with rings as prototypes of things to come. Your misgivings concerning the sun would seem a simple miracle in comparison.
The point was you stated the sun was created to provide light. It could not have done that in only 6,000 years time since the light the sun creates is created at the core and takes 10,000 to 150,000 years to reach the surface. Sure your magic imaginary god can do whatever you make up on the spot but the sun can't be created as a source of light in the picture you paint under the influence of your fantasy.
And as you cave in and are backed into a corner to use the "created with age" defense (admission that you have no evidence to back up your position) you are stuck with an enigma. DNA has to be arranged in a certain manner to allow created lifeforms to exist as they are. It is a big pill to swallow that the proper arrangement of the various genomes just happens to coincide with the apparent evolution of life arising from common ancestry. That basically disproves the created with age argument.
Let me make an explain! God created light and then created a source. And if it takes 10 thousand to 150 thousand years for the sun to release its energy (a very broad spectrum of imagined time I might add) then God obviously created the sun at the stage it would start releasing that energy. My God is good at such things. He likely created Adam a 30 year old man the day Adam was created. I see absolutely no possible reason God could not create our sun at the brink of 10 thousand to 150 thousand years of energy release to suit your perception. Prior to this God Himself was the light of the world and I see nothing you can deny in that regard other than simply reject it outright. And that is YOUR prerogative and not my shortcoming.
They had the excuse that they were living in the 17th century. Nipper is here almost 50 years after we landed on the Moon. Delusion and ignorance are timeless.