Time travelin' Mormons

[_AmyJo]

Pointing out error is a kindness in itself. A mature individual can recognize that.

You can rage at me and at others like me who question what you claim are real experiences of ghosts and time travel. Our right to question is not in your hands. Our right to disagree isn't either.

I have treated you with patience and consideration. That you respond with anger and accusations isn't in your favor. You consider stories of Venusians ridiculous but not time travelers and ghosts. So you're cherry picking your paranormalism. So what is it, ghosts are okay but aliens not? Time travelers okay but not Mormon angels?

I'm afraid I can't accord "paranormalism" the status of a belief system. It doesn't rise to that standard. For the most part it is an entertainment industry based heavily on fraud and ignorance. Questioning pseudoscience or anomalous experiences is not bigotry against a religion or a philosophy. It's trying to understand what is going on. That isn't just "science", it's something people do routinely to avoid errors in their daily lives.

You can insist that I can't possibly know your experiences. That's true to a point. If you tell me that your experience was about flapping your arms and flying to the moon, I know that it's impossible no matter how upset you get about my skepticism. No matter how you scream, plead or cry. And if you respect your audience you would not expect them to make that leap for you with so little basis.

Accusing someone of being delusional and it's all in my imagination is not treating someone with patience or consideration. It's rude, demeaning, and disrespectful no matter what you believe or don't believe.

Since you dismiss any paranormal experiences as delusional and therefore they're all the same to you whether it's a vinusian baby someone claims to have given birth to, or my own cognitive experience of seeing an ancestor visit me as a child, then I feel sorry for you that you're a disrespectful and arrogant prig who doesn't know the difference between the two.

You obviously have no faith in God or in angels, or the spirit world. I feel sorry for you you have to disrespect and demean others to feel better about yourself.

If you're so sure of your beliefs, why attack mine?

I could care less what you believe in. But I don't chase your posts telling you why you're wrong, or that you are delusional.

Out of my family of all brothers I was the only one in my family that had paranormal experiences. My mother used to call me her most spiritual child. My Mormon grandmother had many spiritual experiences and so has many of my ancestors. It was my Mormon grandmother's late mother who appeared to me as a young girl.

I don't need your validation to affirm what I've seen or the things that have happened to me.
You can wail away as you choose, but it only makes you smaller by comparison to insult me because I shared some of my spiritual experiences here, on a "Mormon Discussion" board. Not to be attacked by the likes of you.

I'm not an agnostic or an atheist. Nor am I looking to be de-converted to your non-belief. Save it for someone else.

I was hoping to encourage discussion of the topic OP. Instead you deliberately derailed it.

What an egotist you are without regard for the thoughts or beliefs of others.

To continue to insult my intelligence because I shared a personal experience, shows me how low you'll stoop.

[_Maksutov]

Pointing out error is a kindness in itself. A mature individual can recognize that.

You can rage at me and at others like me who question what you claim are real experiences of ghosts and time travel. Our right to question is not in your hands. Our right to disagree isn't either.

I have treated you with patience and consideration. That you respond with anger and accusations isn't in your favor. You consider stories of Venusians ridiculous but not time travelers and ghosts. So you're cherry picking your paranormalism. So what is it, ghosts are okay but aliens not? Time travelers okay but not Mormon angels?

I'm afraid I can't accord "paranormalism" the status of a belief system. It doesn't rise to that standard. For the most part it is an entertainment industry based heavily on fraud and ignorance. Questioning pseudoscience or anomalous experiences is not bigotry against a religion or a philosophy. It's trying to understand what is going on. That isn't just "science", it's something people do routinely to avoid errors in their daily lives.

You can insist that I can't possibly know your experiences. That's true to a point. If you tell me that your experience was about flapping your arms and flying to the moon, I know that it's impossible no matter how upset you get about my skepticism. No matter how you scream, plead or cry. And if you respect your audience you would not expect them to make that leap for you with so little basis.

Accusing someone of being delusional and it's all in my imagination is not treating someone with patience or consideration. It's rude, demeaning, and disrespectful no matter what you believe or don't believe.

Since you dismiss any paranormal experiences as delusional and therefore they're all the same to you whether it's a vinusian baby someone claims to have given birth to, or my own cognitive experience of seeing an ancestor visit me as a child, then I feel sorry for you that you're a disrespectful and arrogant prig who doesn't know the difference between the two.

You obviously have no faith in God or in angels, or the spirit world. I feel sorry for you you have to disrespect and demean others to feel better about yourself.

If you're so sure of your beliefs, why attack mine?

I could care less what you believe in. But I don't chase your posts telling you why you're wrong, or that you are delusional.

Out of my family of all brothers I was the only one in my family that had paranormal experiences. My mother used to call me her most spiritual child. My Mormon grandmother had many spiritual experiences and so has many of my ancestors. It was my Mormon grandmother's late mother who appeared to me as a young girl.

I don't need your validation to affirm what I've seen or the things that have happened to me.
You can wail away as you choose, but it only makes you smaller by comparison to insult me because I shared some of my spiritual experiences here, on a "Mormon Discussion" board. Not to be attacked by the likes of you.

I'm not an agnostic or an atheist. Nor am I looking to be de-converted to your non-belief. Save it for someone else.

I was hoping to encourage discussion of the topic OP. Instead you deliberately derailed it.

What an egotist you are without regard for the thoughts or beliefs of others.

To continue to insult my intelligence because I shared a personal experience, shows me how low you'll stoop.

The title of this forum is the "Celestial Forum".

It is not the "Unconditional Affirmations Forum".

I did not insult your intelligence or call you names. I did not "derail" the thread; I insisted on discussing it. That is what "Mormon Discussions" is. Were you under a different impression?

My atheism or non-atheism is not the topic. In fact, it's irrelevant as I know many confirmed religionists who disagree with paranormal experiences. You are bringing it up as a way to attack and dismiss me (a.k.a. "stooping low") rather than discuss the topic, which is what "Mormon Discussions" is about.

Paranormal experiences are not monolithic. I don't discount everything under the category. But I insist on analyzing claims. That was my pattern long before reading your OP. It will continue to be my pattern because it renders useful information. Paranormal claims are often mistaken or fraudulent. That's simply a fact. You don't get some kind of evidence-free pass because you don't like the conclusions of science. Analysis and skepticism are also useful in selecting consumer products and planning for retirement. As paranormal culture grows and expands its claims, a need for critical analysis and challenge is greater than ever. I support that in my personal actions. It isn't about "insulting" you. It's about questioning your statements. If you can't or won't separate the two, you probably can't have a rational discussion, but it's your choice.

Many of us on this forum came to disbelieve in Mormonism specifically because of its paranormal claims, many of which are demonstrably wrong or even fraudulent. Did you think that you would escape analysis if Joseph Smith doesn't?

[_AmyJo]

Accusing someone of being delusional and it's all in my imagination is not treating someone with patience or consideration. It's rude, demeaning, and disrespectful no matter what you believe or don't believe.

Since you dismiss any paranormal experiences as delusional and therefore they're all the same to you whether it's a vinusian baby someone claims to have given birth to, or my own cognitive experience of seeing an ancestor visit me as a child, then I feel sorry for you that you're a disrespectful and arrogant prig who doesn't know the difference between the two.

You obviously have no faith in God or in angels, or the spirit world. I feel sorry for you you have to disrespect and demean others to feel better about yourself.

If you're so sure of your beliefs, why attack mine?

I could care less what you believe in. But I don't chase your posts telling you why you're wrong, or that you are delusional.

Out of my family of all brothers I was the only one in my family that had paranormal experiences. My mother used to call me her most spiritual child. My Mormon grandmother had many spiritual experiences and so has many of my ancestors. It was my Mormon grandmother's late mother who appeared to me as a young girl.

I don't need your validation to affirm what I've seen or the things that have happened to me.
You can wail away as you choose, but it only makes you smaller by comparison to insult me because I shared some of my spiritual experiences here, on a "Mormon Discussion" board. Not to be attacked by the likes of you.

I'm not an agnostic or an atheist. Nor am I looking to be de-converted to your non-belief. Save it for someone else.

I was hoping to encourage discussion of the topic OP. Instead you deliberately derailed it.

What an egotist you are without regard for the thoughts or beliefs of others.

To continue to insult my intelligence because I shared a personal experience, shows me how low you'll stoop.

The title of this forum is the "Celestial Forum".

It is not the "Unconditional Affirmations Forum".

I did not insult your intelligence or call you names. I did not "derail" the thread; I insisted on discussing it. That is what "Mormon Discussions" is. Were you under a different impression?

My atheism or non-atheism is not the topic. In fact, it's irrelevant as I know many confirmed religionists who disagree with paranormal experiences. You are bringing it up as a way to attack and dismiss me (a.k.a. "stooping low") rather than discuss the topic, which is what "Mormon Discussions" is about.

Paranormal experiences are not monolithic. I don't discount everything under the category. But I insist on analyzing claims. That was my pattern long before reading your OP. It will continue to be my pattern because it renders useful information. Paranormal claims are often mistaken or fraudulent. That's simply a fact. You don't get some kind of evidence-free pass because you don't like the conclusions of science. Analysis and skepticism are also useful in selecting consumer products and planning for retirement. As paranormal culture grows and expands its claims, a need for critical analysis and challenge is greater than ever. I support that in my personal actions. It isn't about "insulting" you. It's about questioning your statements. If you can't or won't separate the two, you probably can't have a rational discussion, but it's your choice.

Many of us on this forum came to disbelieve in Mormonism specifically because of its paranormal claims, many of which are demonstrably wrong or even fraudulent. Did you think that you would escape analysis if Joseph Smith doesn't?

I'm not here to debate my beliefs with you. You're a know-it-all. There's nothing to debate.

As for my personal experiences, I own them. They are not made up or a product of my imagination. They happened.

My topic isn't about science. It's about belief and faith, and my great grandmother visiting me from the other side.

You deliberately hijacked my thread to attack my beliefs and my personal experience shared here.

I thought you were above that. You proved me wrong.

[_Maksutov]

The title of this forum is the "Celestial Forum".

It is not the "Unconditional Affirmations Forum".

I did not insult your intelligence or call you names. I did not "derail" the thread; I insisted on discussing it. That is what "Mormon Discussions" is. Were you under a different impression?

My atheism or non-atheism is not the topic. In fact, it's irrelevant as I know many confirmed religionists who disagree with paranormal experiences. You are bringing it up as a way to attack and dismiss me (a.k.a. "stooping low") rather than discuss the topic, which is what "Mormon Discussions" is about.

Paranormal experiences are not monolithic. I don't discount everything under the category. But I insist on analyzing claims. That was my pattern long before reading your OP. It will continue to be my pattern because it renders useful information. Paranormal claims are often mistaken or fraudulent. That's simply a fact. You don't get some kind of evidence-free pass because you don't like the conclusions of science. Analysis and skepticism are also useful in selecting consumer products and planning for retirement. As paranormal culture grows and expands its claims, a need for critical analysis and challenge is greater than ever. I support that in my personal actions. It isn't about "insulting" you. It's about questioning your statements. If you can't or won't separate the two, you probably can't have a rational discussion, but it's your choice.

Many of us on this forum came to disbelieve in Mormonism specifically because of its paranormal claims, many of which are demonstrably wrong or even fraudulent. Did you think that you would escape analysis if Joseph Smith doesn't?

I'm not here to debate my beliefs with you. You're a know-it-all. There's nothing to debate.

As for my personal experiences, I own them. They are not made up or a product of my imagination. They happened.

My topic isn't about science. It's about belief and faith, and my great grandmother visiting me from the other side.

You deliberately hijacked my thread to attack my beliefs and my personal experience shared here.

I thought you were above that. You proved me wrong.

You claimed contact with ghosts and time travelers. Didn't you?

That's what I question. And that isn't about "belief" and "faith", it's about events that you claim happened.

Anyone reading this thread can see that it has been you who has been calling names. Not me.

Your pose of outrage and martyrdom is inspiring. It's right out of the paranormalist playbook. Carry on.

[_Fence Sitter]

AmyJo,

Is the point of your OP to ask about the possibility of time travel or share the experience you relate?

I am a bit confused as to what it is actually you are looking for as a response to your OP.

Thanks

[_AmyJo]

AmyJo,

Is the point of your OP to ask about the possibility of time travel or share the experience you relate?

I am a bit confused as to what it is actually you are looking for as a response to your OP.

Thanks

It was meant to be both until maksutov hijacked it.

My beliefs are not on trial here. Why he feels compelled to call me a liar, overly imaginative or delusional is derogatory and insulting. Just because he has no beliefs in a higher power or afterlife doesn't mean others here don't.

This was a thread to share from experiences and perspectives on the possibility of time travel versus an old fashioned haunting. I find that the fact the woman who appeared to me was in full pioneer clothing from another era, belies the traditional hauntings by ghosts. She was on a personal visit, and some kind of voyage as she wasn't alone when she appeared to me.

The fact there was a gathering in the middle of my bedroom after long moments and I heard a whirring noise like an engine of sorts, and then they were gone. It makes me wonder how they traveled. I don't know who all they were, except I did see the lady who was watching me looking up at her. If they were spirits it still doesn't explain her pioneer clothing to me. The only thing rational about her dress would be if she were a time traveler, in my opinion. Or the spirit world is inhabited by spirits stuck in the time era they lived in on earth.

Another possibility is she appeared to me as I would recognize her years later when I finally saw some photographs I hadn't seen before as a child. The instant I saw her in an old newspaper clipping I knew she was the same lady who appeared to me as a little girl. If she'd appeared to me in any other dress or hairstyle, I would not have made that connection.

[_Fence Sitter]

So how would someone like me, who does not believe in the possibility of time travel, or at least not in the sense your OP suggest and also thinks your experience was in all likelihood self generated (for lack of a better word - I am really trying to find a word that is inoffensive here yet at the same time indicates my opinion) engage you in a discussion on this, without offending you?

[_moksha]

This analysis discovered unexplained traces of carbon-60 and an off-the-scale reading of nocturnal emissions. Once back at BYU, the student relayed the information to the head of the Chemistry Department. The administrator then dispatched a male student to reconfirm the work, making sure it was done properly and under the steady hand of the Priesthood. The male student confirmed these findings to the letter.

This kind of stuff is best posted in some science journal. The purpose of this thread is to discount and ridicule paranormal individuals.

In consultation with the Administration of the Brigham Young University, they decided to release these findings to the Mormon Studies Program at Claremont College, enabling Dr. Patrick Q. Mason to win the 2018 Grand Prize Award from the Mormon History Association.

Good for Dr. Mason, but if he is not specifically claiming to be a paranormal individual then he does not merit any thread specific derision at this time.

[_Fence Sitter]

Our beloved penguin.

I am afraid it might take some sort of paranormal event for some to understand your humor.

[_Themis]

Ever wonder about the possibility of time travel? I have.

Yes, but I think most have. Even people like Einstein. I am not aware of any of the experts that consider it possible, based on current understandings of the laws of the universe, that anyone of us could travel forward or back in time.

Since we haven't actually been able to transport ourselves into the past or future yet, I've wondered about the possibility of other dimensions of time that may co-exist with us, in sort of parallel universes or worlds.

Well we certainly don't know enough to say absolutely no, but it is so much speculation as not to be more then sci-fi atm. Fun to think about, but not seriously. Same with time travel. They do make some good scifi stories though like Back to the future.