Christ visit and the Mik Maq Nephites

[_Lemmie]

bomgeo, I hope you are reading what Maks posted. Some powerful stuff.

[Guest]

Last time I checked father Chretian Le clercq writings are not discredited.

That is the problem with your so-called research. You cherry pick only for what you want to see and you fail to fully grasp or understand the shortcomings of early writings about American Indians. You do not consider the religious bias that distorts the author's perspective and a plethora of other deficiencies when trying to take writings such as Le Clercq's and attribute them to your reality. For some examples of the problems in making your claims, see:
The Embattled Northeast: The Elusive Ideal of Alliance in Abenaki
https://books.google.com/books?id=Gu7ws ... &q&f=false

My conclusions are based on the factual observations made by historians throughout the centuries.

David, I gave you a source for your research that could have helped you in making more sound conclusions. And your response was to falsely claim that Le Clercq was a historian. Chretian Le Clercq was not a historian. What is wrong with you? You didn't even read what I provided you a link to.

The Embattled Northeast: The Elusive Ideal of Alliance in Abenaki
https://books.google.com/books?id=Gu7ws ... &q&f=false

Here are some highlights from a few pages:

"The widening gulf between Indian and European mentalities can be seen in Father Chretien LeClercq's evaluation of the Micmac."

"Simply put, LeClercq held Indian culture in contempt."

"LeClercq ascribed gross ignorance to the Micmac because "they do not know how to read nor how to write.""

"LeClercq himself found it difficult to comprehend Micmac reality. He ridiculed Algonkian mythological beliefs at the same time as he admitted the effective reality of their religious rituals."

"Because the priest acknowledged the actuality of Micmac shamanism and insisted that such powers were not derived from natural causes, he presumed that shamans were in league with the devil. It says everything about the rigidity of the European mind that LeClercq discounted ample evidence of Micmac religious sensibilities."

"He concluded that the Micmac had never known a god "since they have lived down to our day without temples, priests, sacrifices and any indication of religion."

"LeClercq grasped only the surface of Micmac reality."

"He was certain that Catholicism, unlike the Micmac religion, was a true faith."

"Early explorers had expected Indians to be savages, but tribal social behavior confounded that initial judgment. Later observers admitted that Indian societies were as successful as any that they had ever seen."

David, you base your conclusions of the Micmac on the writings of a priest whose understanding of them was flawed. David McKane, leave American Indians alone. You do not know them, you do not understand them. And you have gone so far as to give me a link to a group of whites who pretend to be Indians in a failed attempt to prop up your disgusting writings.

Do you really think there will be no response when you label the Iroquois as Lamanites with this racist and disgusting statement "the Iroquois are the best candidate to be primarily responsible for the extinction of the Nephites."? Or did you expect a warm acceptance when you labeled the Micmac as Nephites? Do you even understand the LDS teachings of the Book of Mormon? David, the Nephites became more wicked than the Lamanites in the final pages and brought on their own destruction at the hands of the Lamanites. So do you think that putting a label of a wicked and depraved people onto such a beautiful people as the Micmacs is going to set well with those of us who live in reality? Or the label of Lamanite on the Iroquois? The racist LDS teachings in 1 Nephi 13 identify American Indians suffering God's wrath at the hands of Europeans and His spirit with the Europeans. Did you think that those fictional labels of Nephite and Lamanite on specific tribes of American Indians is some kind of honor? It isn't. It is racist and demeaning to real, living human beings who happen to be different from you. None of your writings should even be in this Celestial Forum. They are inflammatory, racist and dehumanizing to beautiful living people. As far as I'm concerned, your nonsense is barely fit for the telestial forum.

David, you seem to be intelligent, then you pull some of the dumbest boners I have ever seen. So here is my take on you. You are not a researcher. You are a cherry picker. You are not grounded in reality, you will stoop to any level including lying to try to prop up your fantasy. And when you are faced with truth and challenged you fail to respond in any manner that an honest, credible scholar would do.

David McKane, you are promoting racism against American Indians (First Nations) and lying when you get yourself in a bind. Leave the American Indians alone.

[_bomgeography]

I would agree with the post in that there is no Book of Mormon evidence found in Central America but when it comes to North American the post are irrelevant. These articles are from a meso American perspective.

[_SteelHead]

These articles are from a western hemisphere perspective. The Book of Mormon is a fiction and hence, no evidence anywhere.

[_Xenophon]

It's not discredited

It's not even relevant. It's utterly imaginary and fictitious. You have no answers and no evidence.

http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/j/p ... bating.htm

Snipped for brevity's sake

Mak,
Thanks so much for posting all this. Super informative post you've put together here, tons to chew on.

[_tapirrider]

I would agree with the post in that there is no Book of Mormon evidence found in Central America but when it comes to North American the post are irrelevant. These articles are from a meso American perspective.

See, this is what I've been talking about. David McKane is not a researcher, he is a cherry picker. David either didn't even read or intentionally chose to ignore Mak's posted portion of Michael Coe's interview that covered North America.

The world that Joseph Smith lived in, in upstate New York, the so-called Burned-Over District, where all of these new religions were popping up, was one where there were vestiges of ancient Americans -- I mean, real archaeological sites with mounds -- and these were found all through the area that he traveled through; in Ohio especially, incredible mound sites. We could now know what cultures they belong to. In his day, ... the theory was, among most white Americans, that this had nothing to do with the American Indians that they saw around them, that they were made by other races who had come over. There are all sorts of theories: They could be Jews or Welshmen or Vikings or what have you [who] had made those mounds. ...

Of course the basis of it is totally racist -- the idea that Native Americans, the dark-skinned people, could not do this by themselves, and it had to be light-skinned people. That's very much part of what was in Smith's mind at that time. So it was no surprise that he came up with this idea that the Angel Moroni had come to him and told him about these ancient Nephites and Lamanites and Jaredites and so forth. It was all kind of pre-adapted; he was pre-adapted to this, let's say. ...

How about it David? Care to explain?

[_Maksutov]

I would agree with the post in that there is no Book of Mormon evidence found in Central America but when it comes to North American the post are irrelevant. These articles are from a meso American perspective.

See, this is what I've been talking about. David McKane is not a researcher, he is a cherry picker. David either didn't even read or intentionally chose to ignore Mak's posted portion of Michael Coe's interview that covered North America.

The world that Joseph Smith lived in, in upstate New York, the so-called Burned-Over District, where all of these new religions were popping up, was one where there were vestiges of ancient Americans -- I mean, real archaeological sites with mounds -- and these were found all through the area that he traveled through; in Ohio especially, incredible mound sites. We could now know what cultures they belong to. In his day, ... the theory was, among most white Americans, that this had nothing to do with the American Indians that they saw around them, that they were made by other races who had come over. There are all sorts of theories: They could be Jews or Welshmen or Vikings or what have you [who] had made those mounds. ...

Of course the basis of it is totally racist -- the idea that Native Americans, the dark-skinned people, could not do this by themselves, and it had to be light-skinned people. That's very much part of what was in Smith's mind at that time. So it was no surprise that he came up with this idea that the Angel Moroni had come to him and told him about these ancient Nephites and Lamanites and Jaredites and so forth. It was all kind of pre-adapted; he was pre-adapted to this, let's say. ...

How about it David? Care to explain?

Digging up old Catholic missionaries, wrenching their accounts out of context and then editing their statements is also a pattern perpetrated by the promoters of Atlantis and Lemuria and the more modern 'Ancient Astronaut' crowd. In each of these cases a major part of the argument is racist--the idea that brown, non-Christian people could not possibly create impressive technology or civilization, that occult or fantastic explanations are more credible. "Another Testament of Jesus Christ" might just as well be replaced with "Another Racist Fantasy of History". That is what it is, to this very day. That the church that bears its name had racist policies AND DOCTRINE for over a century is confirmation of this.

[_bomgeography]

Here are the quotes if you can show that I misconstrued the meaning or took out of context any of the observations made by the persons listed I will gladly change my point of view on any of them

(Iroquois Legend)
“The visitor appeared very old man; he appeared among the people for a while; he taught them many things; how to respect their deceased friends, and to love their relations and he informed the people that the whites beyond the great water had killed their Maker, but he rose again.”
(Cusick 1838 pg. 31)
(Gaspesian/Micmac legend of a beautiful person who in a time of turmoil visited them. He taught them and performed miracles. The sleep mentioned in the quote would make sense during the three days of darkness mentioned in 3 Nephi. The cross mentioned in the quote is the Greek style cross - not to be confused with the evangelical cross. The Greek cross is a sacred symbol found in prehistoric Indian civilizations.)
“They claim that, at a time when their country was afflicted with a very dangerous and deadly malady which had reduced them to an extreme destitution in every respect and had already sent many of them to their graves, certain old men of those whom they considered the best, the wisest, and the most influential, fell asleep, all overwhelmed with weariness and despair at seeing a desolation so general and the impending ruin of the entire Gaspesian nation ... It was, say they, in this sleep filled with bitterness that a man, beautiful as could be, appeared to them with a Cross in his hand. He told them to take heart, to go back to their homes, to make Crosses like that which were shown them, and to present these to the heads of families with the assurance that if they would receive the Crosses with respect they would find these without question the remedy for all their ills. And so it turned out in fact, for the sickness ended, and all the afflicted who used the Cross with respect were restored miraculously to health. In this they were more happy.”
(Clercq 1680 pg. 172)
(Foretelling Christ’s visit to America there were incredible natural disaster. The Dakota Indians tell of an event passed down that matches the destruction explained in the Book of Mormon. The Dakota Indians explain that during a great and terrible tempest, with forked lightning and quaking of the earth an enemy Iowa village was ploughed to the earth to become a deep ravine where the village once stood. The Book of Mormon states in 3 Nephi Chapter 8 there were “terrible tempest”, “terrible thunder”, “exceedingly sharp lightnings”, ”exceedingly great quaking of the whole earth”, ”many smooth places became rough”, “And many great and notable cities were sunk”.)
“The thunder, which the Dakotas believe to be a winged monster, and which in character seems to answer very well to the Mars of the ancient heathen, bore down upon the Iowa village in a most terrible and god-like manner. Tempests howled, the forked lightnings flashed, and the thunders uttered their voices; the earth trembled; a thunderbolt was hurled at the devoted village, which ploughed the earth, and formed that deep ravine.” (Miner 1911 pg. 29)
(Father Clercq believed that the Gaspesian/Micmac Indians were taught the belief of the cross and the Christian gospel by previous missionaries, the Gaspesian Indians said differently)
“One day to make these pagans admit that the missionaries who had preceded me had taught them the manner in which they ought to worship the Cross, the leading person said to me, “Well, now, thou art a Patriarch. Thou wishest that we believe everything that thou tellest us, but thou art not willing to believe that which we tell thee. Thou art not yet forty years old and for only two hast thou dwelt with the Indians; and yet thou pretendest to know our maxims, our traditions, and our customs better than our ancestors who have taught them to us. Dost thou not still see every day the old man Quioudo, who is more than a hundred and twenty years old: He saw the first ship which landed in our country. He has repeated to thee often that the Indians of Mizamichis have not received from strangers the use of the Cross, and that his own knowledge of it has been derived through tradition from his fathers, who lived for at least as long a time as he.”
(Clercq 1680 pg. 191)




Concerning Hattera Indians of North Carolina)
“These (Hattera Indians) tell us, that several of their Ancestors were white People, and could talk in a Book, as we do; the Truth of which is confirmed by gray eyes being found frequently amongst these Indians, and no others”
(John Lawson 1709 pg. 62)
(About Gaspesian/Micmac Indians)

“They hold, further, that it could well have been a fact that these individuals were instructed in the sacred mysteries of our holy Religion, and that they had even a knowledge and the use of letters, since, in the establishment of colonies, it is customary to send there men who are alike learned and pious, in order that they may teach to the peoples, along with purely human knowledge, the most solid maxims of Christian wisdom and piety. Nobody, however, having followed them in these glorious employments, the knowledge which they had of the true God, of letters, and of their origin, was thus gradually lost and effaced from the minds of their unfortunate posterity by the lapse of time.”
(Clercq 1680 pg. 86)
(Gaspesian/Micmac Indians)
“These people had received in times past a knowledge of the Gospel and of Christianity, which they have finally lost through the negligence and the licentiousness of their ancestors.”
(Clercq 1680 pg. 86)
(In reference to the North American Indians)
“It is said among their principal or beloved men, that they have it handed down from their ancestors, that the book which the white people have was once theirs. That while they say that their forefathers were possessed of an extraordinary divine spirit, by which they foretold future events, and controlled the common course of nature, and this they transmitted to their offspring, on condition of their obeying the sacred laws. That they did by these means bring down showers of plenty on the beloved people. But that this power, for a long time past, had entirely ceased.”
(Boudinet 1816 pg. 114)
“Colonel M. inquired why the Indians had not learned these arts of the white people. He replied indefinitely, relating that the Great Spirit had once given the Indians a book, which taught them all these arts, but that they had lost it, and had never since regained the knowledge of them.”
(M.H. Frost 1819; On the aborigines of the Western Countries) According to an old Cherokee quoted by Buttrick:
“God gave the red man a book and a paper and told him to write, but he merely made marks on the paper, and as he could not read or write, the Lord gave him a bow and arrows, and gave the book to the white man.” Boudinot, in “A Star in the West,”‘ quoted by the same author, says: “They have it handed down from their ancestors, that the book which the white people have was once theirs; that while they had it they prospered exceedingly; but that the white people bought it of them and learned many things from it, while the Indians lost credit, offended the Great Spirit, and suffered exceedingly from the neighboring nations; that the Great Spirit took pity on them and directed them to this country,”
(Mooney 1902 pg. 483)
According to Morgan, the Muscogee proper, and perhaps also their incorporated tribes, have 22 clans. Of these the Wind appears to be the leading one, possessing privileges accorded to no other clan, including the hereditary guardianship of the ancient metal tablets which constitute the palladium of the tribe.” (Palladium in the 19th and 18th century means for safety)
(Mooney 1902 pg. 499)

Gaspesian/Micmac belief of how they arrived on the North American continent
The Gaspesian/Micmac have two theories of how they arrived. The first is by sailing from another country, and the other belief fits the Genesis account and flood.
“Others hold that this new world has been peopled by certain individuals who, having embarked upon the sea for the purpose of establishing a colony in foreign parts, were surprised by storm and tempest, which threw them upon the coasts of North America. Here they were unfortunately shipwrecked, and, with their ships, they lost everything which they must have had with them of property, and of the things which they valued most in the world. Affairs were such that this shipwreck having left them wholly without hope of ever returning into their own country”
(Clercq 1680, pg. 85)
Iroquois legend of a foreign people who sailed to the continent then were destroyed. Cusick’s book I believe is about the Nephite and Lamanite Interactions and fighting except from the Lamanite perspective told in Iroquois Legend.
“After a long time a number of foreign people sailed from a port unknown; but unfortunately before reached their destination the winds drove them contrary ; at length their ship wrecked somewhere on the southern part of the Great Island, and many of the crews perished ; a few active persons were saved ....They immediately selected a place for residence and built a small fortification in order to provide against the attacks of furious beasts....After many years the foreign people became numerous, and extended their settlements ; but afterwards they were destroyed”
(Cusick 1838, pg. 16)
Natchez Indians of Mississippi concerning a race of Indian that preceded them
“They had come on floating villages from the side where the sun rises.” (Swanton 1909, pg. 184)
“There is a rock, called the Dighton rock, on Taunton River, near Dighton, in Massachusetts. It is a large rock in the margin of the sea, and upon it are inscriptions in strange characters, partly alphabetical and partly hieroglyphic... In another scene, there is a vessel, with its masts, flags, and long rudder, as in the oriental vessels at this day...The subject generally seems intended to commemorate the arrival of a people there from the ocean and the east, and who, having had intercourse with that natives)
(Haywood

Captain Brant Thayendanegea was a well-known Iroquois and Mohawk leader and Chief who sided with the British during the Revolutionary war. He was born of Iroquois parents who converted to Christianity. They gave him a Christian name Joseph Brant. The quote is from his biography:
“I was curious to learn in the course of my conversations with Captain Brant (Thayendanegea Mohawk/Iroquois Chief), what information he could give me respecting the tumuli (mounds) which are found on and near the margin of the rivers and lakes, from the St. Lawrence to the Mississippi. He stated, in reply, that the subject had long been agitated, but yet remained in some obscurity. A tradition, he said, prevailed among the different nations of Indians through-out that whole extensive range of country, and had been handed down time immemorial, that in an age long gone by, there came white men from a foreign country, and by consent of the Indians established trading-houses and settlements where these tumuli (mounds) are found. A friendly intercourse was continued for several years; many of the white men brought their wives, and had children born to them; and additions to their numbers were made yearly from their own country. These circumstances at length gave rise to jealousies among the Indians, and fears began to be entertained in regard to the increasing numbers, wealth, and ulterior views of the new comers; apprehending that becoming strong, they might one day seize upon the country as their own. A secret council, composed of the chiefs of all the different nations from the St. Lawrence to the Mississippi, was therefore convoked; the result of which, after long deliberation, was a resolution that on a certain night designated for that purpose, all their white neighbors, men, women and children, should be exterminated.“
(Stone 1838 pg. 484)
“Here the Indians tell us there was a war in early times, against an Indian town, traces of which are yet visible, corn pits, etc. This was inhabited by a distinct nation, neither Iroquois nor Delawares, who spoke a peculiar language, and were called Tehotitachse, against them the Five Nations warred and routed them out; the Cayugas for a time held a number captive, but the nation and the language are now exterminated and extinct.”
(Murray 1908 pg. 46)

Natchez Indians of Mississippi, in reference to an ancient race of Indian who preceded them and eventually were defeated:
“I did not fail to ask him who these warriors of fire were. “They were,” said he, “bearded men, white but swarthy... They had come on floating villages from the side where the sun rises. They conquered the ancients of the country, of whom they killed as many as there are spears of grass in the Prairies, and in the beginning they were good friends of our brothers, but ultimately they made them submit as well as the ancients of the country, as our Suns (leaders) had foreseen and had foretold to them.””
(Swanton 1909 pg. 184)
“There is a dim but persistent tradition of a strange white race preceding the Cherokee, some of the stories even going so far as to locate their former settlements and to identify them as the authors of the ancient works found in the country. The earliest reference appears to be that of Barton in 1797, on the statement of a gentleman whom he quotes as a valuable authority upon the southern tribes. “The Cherokee tell us, that when they first arrived in the country which they inhabit, they found it possessed by certain ‘moon-eyed people,’ who could not see in the day-time. These wretches they expelled.” He seems to consider them an albino race.* Haywood, twenty-six years later, says that the invading Cherokee found “white people” near the head of the Little Tennessee, with forts extending thence down the Tennessee as far as Chickamauga creek. He gives the location of three of these forts. The Cherokee made war against them and drove them to the mouth of Big Chickamauga creek, where they entered into a treaty and agreed to remove if permitted to depart in peace. Permission being granted, they abandoned the country. Elsewhere he speaks of this extirpated white race as having extended into Kentucky and probably also into western Tennessee, according to the concurrent traditions of different tribes.” (Mooney 1902 pg. 22)
“Did not these skeletons belong to persons of the same race with those white people, who were extirpated in part, and in part driven from Kentucky, and probably also from West Tennessee, as Indian tradition reports?”
(Haywood 1823 pg. 166)
“An old Indian, in conversation with Colonel James F. Moore, of Kentucky, informed him that the western country, and particularly Kentucky, had once been inhabited by white people, but that they were exterminated by the Indians. That the last battle was fought at the falls of Ohio, and that the Indians succeeded in driving the Aborigines into a small island below the rapids, where the whole of them were cut to pieces.”
(M.H. Frost 1819; On the aborigines of the Western Countries)
“Mr. Thomas Bodley was informed by Indians of different tribes northwest of the Ohio, that they had understood from their old men, and that it had been a tradition among their several nations, that Kentucky had been settled by whites, and that they had been exterminated by war. They were of opinion that the old fortifications, now to be seen in Kentucky and Ohio, were the productions of those white inhabitants. Wappockanitta, a Shawnee chief, near a hundred and twenty years old, living on the Auglaze River, confirmed

“They call themselves Aquanuskion (Algonquin), or ye Covenant People.” (Louise Welles Murray 1908)
(Gaspesian/Micmac Indians)
“Not an Indian would ever dare to appear before the others without having in his hand, on his skin, or on his garments this sacred sign.”
(Clercq 1680 pg. 147)
Mosiah 11:10 – And he also caused that his workmen should work all manner of fine work within the walls of the temple, of fine wood, and of copper, and of brass.
(In reference to the Natchez of Mississippi, who said a race that preceded them built temples with much skill, and also taught them to build temples)
“Their temples were built with much skill and labor. They made very beautiful things with all kinds of materials, such as gold, silver, stones, wood, fabrics, feathers, and many other things in which they made their skill appear.
“A remarkable temple was situated in the town of Talmaco, upon the Savannah River, three miles distant from Cutifatchique, near Silver Bluff. It was more than one hundred feet in length, and fifty feet in width. The walls were high in proportion, and the roof steep and covered with mats of split cane, interwoven so compactly that they resembled the rush carpeting of the Moors.”
(Jones, The American Naturalist, Vol 3 1869)
“In 1934, the Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA), was constructing a dam which would flood a portion of the Clinch River in East Tennessee. Because the area to be flooded included a Hopewell Native American mound, a group of archeologists were called in to excavate the site. The archeologists came upon an amazing discovery when they uncovered the ruins of a large stone and wood structure. So unlike any other find found at a Hopewell site, British Egyptologist, James Rendel Harris from the London Museum, was consulted. At the site, Harris identified the structure as an “Egyptian Temple”. A single newspaper article documents this account.
“In the center of the mound, about three feet from its surface, I uncovered a large sacrificial vase, or altar, forty-three inches in diameter, composed of a mixture of clay and river shells. The rim of the vase was three inches in height. The entire vessel had been molded in a large wicker basket, formed of split canes, and the leaves of the cane, the impressions of which were plainly visible upon the outer surface. The circle of the vase appeared to be almost mathematically correct. The surface of the altar was covered with a layer of ashes, about one inch in thickness, and these ashes had the appearance and composition of having been derived from the burning.”
(Jones, The American Naturalist, Vol 3 1869)
(During ancient times, Hebrews were commanded to maintain an eternal flame at the tabernacle/temple - Exodus 27:20, 21)
“Henri de Tonto, who travelled with de la Salle and wrote an extensive report, thought them most “polished” people he had seen. As with the Illinois and Natchez, they maintained a sacred fire that was never allowed to go out in their major Temple... an elaborate palace with decorated walls ten feet high.”
(A Cultural History of the Atlantic World, 1250-1820, by John K. Thornton)
“The Potta-wat-um-ees moved up Lake Michigan, and by taking with them, or for a time perpetuating the national fire, which according to tradition was sacredly kept alive in their more primitive days, they have obtained the name of “those who make or keep the fire,” which is the literal meaning of their tribal cognomen.”
(Warren Williams, Ojibwa History) (Gaspesian/Micmac Indians)
“In a word, they value the [Greek style] Cross so highly that they order it to be interred with them in their coffins after death, in the belief that this Cross will bear them company in the other world, and that they would not be recognised by their ancestors if they had not with them the symbol and honourable token which distinguishes the Cross-bearers from all the other Indians of New France.”
(Clercq 1680 pg. 151)

Native American and Hebrew beliefs and customs
(About Gaspesian/Micmac Indians)
“They say that when the sun, which they have always recognized and worshiped as their God, created all this great universe, he divided the earth immediately into several parts, wholly separated one from the other by great lakes : that in each part he caused to be born one man and one woman, and they multiplied and lived a very long time : hut that having become wicked along with their children, who killed one another, the sun wept with grief thereat, and the rain fell from the heaven in such great abundance that the waters mounted even to the summit of the rocks, and of the highest and most lofty mountains. This flood, which, say they, was general over all the earth, compelled them to set sail in their bark canoes.”
(Clercq 1680 pg. 85)
(Cherokee belief of a great deluge)
“A long time ago a man had a dog, which began to go down to the river every day and look at the water and howl. At last the man was angry and scolded the dog, which then spoke to him and said: “Very soon there is going to be a great freshet and the water will come so high that everybody will be drowned; but if you will make a raft to get upon when the rain comes you can be saved, but you must first throw me into the water.” The man did not believe it, and the dog said, “If you want a sign that I speak the truth, look at the back of my neck.” He looked and saw that the dog’s neck had the skin worn off so that the bones stuck out. Then he believed the dog, and began to build a raft. Soon the rain came and he took his family, with plenty of provisions, and they all got upon it. It rained for a long time, and the water rose until the mountains were covered and all the people in the world were drowned. Then the rain stopped and the waters went down again, until at last it was safe to come off the raft. Now there was no one alive but the man and his family, but one day they heard a sound of dancing and shouting on the other side of the ridge. "


Gaspesian/Micmac Indians - Hebrew one year betrothal and dowry)
“The one of our Indians who wishes to marry a girl must live an entire year in the wigwam of his mistress’s father, whom he must serve and to whom he must give all the furs of moose and beavers which he kills in hunting. By the same law it is forbidden to the future husband and wife to abandon themselves to their pleasure.”
(Clercq 1680 pg. 238)
(Gaspesian/Micmac Indians - ancient Hebrew belief of a women being unclean during her menstrual period)
“A matter which is yet more surprising is this - they observe still to this day certain ceremonies of which they do not know the origin, giving no other reasons than that their ancestors have always practiced the same thing. The first is this, that the women and girls, when they suffer the inconveniences usual to their sex, are accounted unclean.”
(Clercq 1680 pg. 227)

“I have learned only this from our Indians, that the chiefs of their nation formerly entrusted the bodies of the dead to certain old men, who carried them sacredly to a wigwam built on purpose in the midst of the woods, where they remained for a month or six weeks. They opened the head and the belly of the dead person, and removed therefrom the brain and the entrails.”
(Clercq 1680 pg. 302)

They are either descendants of the lost tribes of Israel, or they have had, in some former era, a close contact and intercourse with the Hebrews, imbibing from them their beliefs and customs and the traditions of their patriarchs.”
(Warren Williams, Ojibwa History)
(Gaspesian/Micmac Indians)
“After the death of one’s brother, it is permissible to marry his wife, in order that she may have children of the same blood if she has not had any by her first husband.”
(Clercq 1680 pg. 228)

Native American idioms and phraseology, as described by early settlers, are consistent with the Old Testament and the Book of Mormon. Below are some examples of Native American idioms consistent with scripture. Examples are from John Heckewelder’s Manners and Customs of The Indian Nations Who Once Inhabited Pennsylvania and the Neighboring States.
Native American saying: “I will place you under my wings!”
Meaning: I will protect you at all hazards! You shall be perfectly safe, nobody shall molest
you!
Scripture: 3 Nephi 10:6 O ye house of Israel whom I have spared, how oft will I gather you as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, if ye will repent and return unto me with full purpose of heart.
(Heckewelder pg. 139)
Native American saying: ”To bury deep in the earth” (an injury done) Meaning: To consign it to oblivion.
Scripture: 2 Nephi 26:5 And they that kill the prophets, and the saints, the depths of the earth shall swallow them up, saith the Lord of Hosts; and mountains shall cover them. (Heckewelder pg. 140)
Native American saying: “You have spoken with your lips only, not from the heart!” Meaning: You endeavor to deceive me; you do not intend to do as you say!
Scripture: 2 Nephi 27:25 Forasmuch as this people draw near unto me with their mouth, and with their lips do honor me, but have removed their hearts far from me, and their fear towards me is taught by the precepts of men. (Heckewelder pg. 139)
Native American saying: “draw the thorns out of your feet and legs, grease your Stiffened joints with oil, and wipe the sweat off your body.”
Meaning: I make you feel comfortable after your fatiguing journey, that you may enjoy yourself while with us.
Hebrew Custom: The washing of feet is a Hebrew custom. It was the first item done when entering a house or tent. The host would provide the water and the guest would wash his own feet. If the host was wealthy, a slave would wash the feet.
Anointing of oil was used by Jews to refresh and invigorate the body. This custom is still done today by Arabians. In the example there are some similarities in the cleaning of feet and legs from thorns and the anointing of oil or grease to refresh the body. (Heckewelder pg. 139)

[Guest]

The stories and legends as recorded and influenced by bias from 200 years ago have been replaced with hard in the ground archeology, anthropology and dna studies. There is no hebrew connection with the American Indians. That these legends align with the Book of Mormon serves as evidence that this idea influenced the writing of the Book of Mormon. The hard science then disproves these long since discredited ideas. You keep trying to hijack their history, and recast their culture.

[_bomgeography]

The stories and legends as recorded and influenced by bias from 200 years ago have been replaced with hard in the ground archeology, anthropology and dna studies. There is no hebrew connection with the American Indians. You keep trying to hijack their history, and recast their culture.

No I would disagree not only do native Americans have DNA from the Middle East but traditions language and artifacts.