bomgeography wrote:I hold the Book of Mormon and Bible to close to my heart.
kind of bulletproof vest against hard facts produced by science
bomgeography wrote:Many Mormons and Christians serve their country and community.
as many atheists do it
patriotism is undependent of belief systems
Choyo Chagas is Chairman of the Big Four, the ruler of the planet from "The Bull's Hour" ( Russian: Час Быка), a social science fiction novel written by Soviet author and paleontologist Ivan Yefremov in 1968. Six months after its publication Soviet authorities banned the book and attempted to remove it from libraries and bookshops.
DNA does not support the barren Bering ice bridge theory. Simon states that American continent was populated around 50000 years ago that's also. Completely incorrect. He should look at current research data.
Scientist can't explain how people from the middle eat Polynesians and other locations arrived in the americas but DNA archeological cultural and linguistic data can it obvious. Go read the Book of Mormon.
The prevailing theory is that the first Americans arrived in a single wave, and all Native American populations today descend from this one group of adventurous founders. But now there’s a kink in that theory. “ “If Aleutian Islanders or their ancestors had somehow mixed with an Australasian group up north or made their way south to the Amazon, they’d leave genetic clues along the way. “It’s not a clear alternative,” argues Reich. “ “Three Amazonian groups—Suruí, Karitiana and Xavante—all had more in common with Australasians than any group in Siberia. “ “Both studies therefore suggest that the ancestry of the first Americans is a lot more complicated than scientists had envisioned.” “There is a greater diversity of Native American founding populations than previously thought,” says Skoglund. “And these founding populations connect indigenous groups in far apart places of the world.” http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-n ... ans-links- amazon-indigenous-australians-180955976/?no-ist
bomgeography wrote:2013 is not outdated the Native American haplo group x is a caucasian marker you guys are making stuff up again.
As I have shown you before, the claim of white Caucasian being tied to haplogroup x IS NOT from 2013. It is in earlier publications and no longer claimed by scientists in 2013. I have also explained to you that the evolution of white skin in Europe happened AFTER people were already in the Americas. http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/04/ ... white-skin
I am not "making stuff up again". I have repeatedly provided you with the facts. You have chosen to ignore radiocarbon dating, mutation rates and pretty much anything in the scientific journals that disagrees with what you want to believe. You distort the findings of science and misrepresent them to prop up your racist claims and then choose to ignore the fact that you are advocating a doctrine of white supremacy.
The 2013 National geographic article just confirms the research done below that you say is outdated. that Native American haplo group x is of caucasian or European ancestry. The national geographic article refers to it as Middle east and European ancestry. Science is a wonderful thing.
“Haplogroup X is remarkable in that it has not been found in Asians, including Siberians” “In that case, as it has been proposed, haplogroup X was brought to America by the eastward migration of an ancestral white population, of which no trace has so far been found in the mtDNA gene pool of modern Siberian/eastern Asian population” (The Presence of Mitochondrial Haplogroup X in Altaians from South Siberia Am. J. Hum. Genet. 69:237–241, 2001) “To date, haplogroup X has not been unambiguously identified in Asia, raising the possibility that some Native American founders were of Caucasian ancestry.” http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 9707616292 “Overall, the sequence data and phylogenetic analysis suggest that the Native American and the European haplogroup X mtDNAs share a common maternal ancestor” “The 14 Caucasian-European haplogroup X samples (designated “CE1”–“CE14”) included 2 Caucasians of European ancestry” (MtDNA haplogroup X: An Ancient Link between Europe/Western Asia and North America Michael D. Brown,1 Seyed H. Hosseini,1 Antonio Torroni,2 Hans-Ju¨rgenBandelt,3 Jon C. Allen,1 Theodore G. Schurr,1 Rosaria Scozzari,2 Fulvio Cruciani,2 and Douglas C. Wallace1) “Phylogenetic analysis and coalescence estimates for American Indian and European haplogroup X mtDNAs exclude the possibility that the occurrence of haplogroup X in American Indians is due to recent European admixture.” (The Presence of Mitochondrial haplogroup X in Altaians from South Siberia Am. J. Hum. Genet. 69:237–241, 2001)
Nearly one-third of Native American genes come from west Eurasian peoples with ties to the Middle East and Europe (“Great Surprise”—Native Americans Have West Eurasian Origins http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... -genetics/)
If you went to college, would you be in a position to show your first sentence to any anthropology, archaeology, genetics or history professor there and ask their opinion? Or even any teacher of those topics at your high school would do if you didn't go to college. I think it would be helpful to you to see their response in person.
Other than that, another broken link, more bizarre distortion, more nonsensical statements unrelated to the topic. And then you state Dr.Southerton is "incorrect," and "he should look at current research data"?! Laughable. Have you read his blog entries about this topic? You need to read other work than that presented by people who make money off gullible religious followers and who publish supremacist, racist magazines.
tapirrider wrote:You distort the findings of science and misrepresent them to prop up your racist claims and then choose to ignore the fact that you are advocating a doctrine of white supremacy.
There plenty of archeological cultural artifacts and linguistic evidence to show.
Concerning Hattera Indians of North Carolina: “These Hattera tell us, that several of their Ancestors were white People, and could talk in a Book, as we do; the Truth of which is confirmed by gray eyes being found frequently amongst these Indians, and no others.” (John Lawson 1709 pg. 62) The Nephites who I believe had Caucasian DNA were killed off by the Lamanites. The North American Indians have a legend of a foreign white race being completely killed or removed from certain areas. Captain Brant Thayendanegea was a well-known Iroquois and Mohawk leader and Chief who sided with the British during the Revolutionary war. He was born of Iroquois parents who converted to Christianity. They gave him a Christian name Joseph Brant. The quote is from his biography: “I was curious to learn in the course of my conversations with Captain Brant (Thayendanegea Mohawk/Iroquois Chief), what information he could give me respecting the tumuli (mounds) which are found on and near the margin of the rivers and lakes, from the St. Lawrence to the Mississippi. He stated, in reply, that the subject had long been agitated, but yet remained in some obscurity. A tradition, he said, prevailed among the different nations of Indians through-out that whole extensive range of country, and had been handed down time immemorial, that in an age long gone by, there came white men from a foreign country, and by consent of the Indians established trading-houses and settlements where these tumuli (mounds) are found. A friendly intercourse was continued for several years; many of the white men brought their wives, and had children born to them; and additions to their numbers were made yearly from their own country. These circumstances at length gave rise to jealousies among the Indians, and fears began to be entertained in regard to the increasing numbers, wealth, and ulterior views of the new comers; apprehending that becoming strong, they might one day seize upon the country as their own. A secret council, composed of the chiefs of all the different nations from the St. Lawrence to the Mississippi, was therefore convoked; the result of which, after long deliberation, was a resolution that on a certain night designated for that purpose, all their white neighbors, men, women and children, should be exterminated.“ (Stone 1838 pg. 484) “Here the Indians tell us there was a war in early times, against an Indian town, traces of which are yet visible, corn pits, etc. This was inhabited by a distinct nation, neither Iroquois nor Delawares, who spoke a peculiar language, and were called Tehotitachse, against them the Five Nations warred and routed them out; the Cayugas for a time held a number captive, but the nation and the language are now exterminated and extinct.” (Murray 1908 pg. 46) Natchez Indians of Mississippi, in reference to an ancient race of Indian who preceded them and eventually were defeated: “I did not fail to ask him who these warriors of fire were. “They were,” said he, “bearded men, white but swarthy… They had come on floating villages from the side where the sun rises. They conquered the ancients of the country, of whom they killed as many as there are spears of grass in the Prairies, and in the beginning they were good friends of our brothers, but ultimately they made them submit as well as the ancients of the country, as our Suns (leaders) had foreseen and had foretold to them.”” (Swanton 1909 pg. 184) “There is a dim but persistent tradition of a strange white race preceding the Cherokee, some of the stories even going so far as to locate their former settlements and to identify them as the authors of the ancient works found in the country. The earliest reference appears to be that of Barton in 1797, on the statement of a gentleman whom he quotes as a valuable authority upon the southern tribes. “The Cherokee tell us, that when they first arrived in the country which they inhabit, they found it possessed by certain ‘moon-eyed people,’ who could not see in the day-time. These wretches they expelled.” He seems to consider them an albino race.* Haywood, twenty-six years later, says that the invading Cherokee found “white people” near the head of the Little Tennessee, with forts extending thence down the Tennessee as far as Chickamauga creek. He gives the location of three of these forts. The Cherokee made war against them and drove them to the mouth of Big Chickamauga creek, where they entered into a treaty and agreed to remove if permitted to depart in peace. Permission being granted, they abandoned the country. Elsewhere he speaks of this extirpated white race as having extended into Kentucky and probably also into western Tennessee, according to the concurrent traditions of different tribes.” (Mooney 1902 pg. 22) “Did not these skeletons belong to persons of the same race with those white people, who were extirpated in part, and in part driven from Kentucky, and probably also from West Tennessee, as Indian tradition reports?” (Haywood 1823 pg. 166) “An old Indian, in conversation with Colonel James F. Moore, of Kentucky, informed him that the western country, and particularly Kentucky, had once been inhabited by white people, but that they were exterminated by the Indians. That the last battle was fought at the falls of Ohio, and that the Indians succeeded in driving the Aborigines into a small island below the rapids, where the whole of them were cut to pieces.” (M.H. Frost 1819; On the aborigines of the Western Countries) “Mr. Thomas Bodley was informed by Indians of different tribes northwest of the Ohio, that they had understood from their old men, and that it had been a tradition among their several nations, that Kentucky had been settled by whites, and that they had been exterminated by war. They were of opinion that the old fortifications, now to be seen in Kentucky and Ohio, were the productions of those white inhabitants. Wappockanitta, a Shawnee chief, near a hundred and twenty years old, living on the Auglaze River, confirmed the above tradition.” (M.H. Frost 1819; On the aborigines of the Western Countries)
Sailed Here from another Country In the Book of Mormon it states that Lehi and his family sailed from the Middle East to another country. Some North American Indian tribes have a belief that they arrived to the North American continent through sailing from another country. Gaspesian/Micmac belief of how they arrived on the North American continent The Gaspesian/Micmac have two theories of how they arrived. The first is by sailing from another country, and the other belief fits the Genesis account and flood. “Others hold that this new world has been peopled by certain individuals who, having embarked upon the sea for the purpose of establishing a colony in foreign parts, were surprised by storm and tempest, which threw them upon the coasts of North America. Here they were unfortunately shipwrecked, and, with their ships, they lost everything which they must have had with them of property, and of the things which they valued most in the world. Affairs were such that this shipwreck having left them wholly without hope of ever returning into their own country” (Clercq 1680, pg. 85) Iroquois legend of a foreign people who sailed to the continent then were destroyed. Cusick’s book I believe is about the Nephite and Lamanite Interactions and fighting except from the Lamanite perspective told in Iroquois Legend. “After a long time a number of foreign people sailed from a port unknown; but unfortunately before reached their destination the winds drove them contrary ; at length their ship wrecked somewhere on the southern part of the Great Island, and many of the crews perished ; a few active persons were saved ….They immediately selected a place for residence and built a small fortification in order to provide against the attacks of furious beasts….After many years the foreign people became numerous, and extended their settlements ; but afterwards they were destroyed” (Cusick 1838, pg. 16) Natchez Indians of Mississippi concerning a race of Indian that preceded them “They had come on floating villages from the side where the sun rises.” (Swanton 1909, pg. 184) “There is a rock, called the Dighton rock, on Taunton River, near Dighton, in Massachusetts. It is a large rock in the margin of the sea, and upon it are inscriptions in strange characters, partly alphabetical and partly hieroglyphic… In another scene, there is a vessel, with its masts, flags, and long rudder, as in the oriental vessels at this day…The subject generally seems intended to commemorate the arrival of a people there from the ocean and the east, and who, having had intercourse with that natives) (Haywood 1823, pg. 329) Alma 44:18 18 But behold, their naked skins and their bare heads were exposed to the sharp swords of the Nephites; yea, behold they were pierced and smitten, yea, and did fall exceedingly fast before the swords of the Nephites; and they began to be swept down, even as the soldier of Moroni had prophesied. Mosiah 8:11. In reference to Jaredite swords 11 And again, they have brought swords, the hilts thereof have perished, and the blades thereof were cankered with rust; “In digging the Louisville canal, nineteen feet below the surface, with the coals of the last domestic fire upon them, medals of copper and silver, swords and other implements of iron. Mr. Flint assures us that he has seen these strange ancient swords.” (Conant, pg. 111, 1879) (Items found in Hopewell Indian Ruins) “A few miles from the town of Columbia, in Maury county, in West Tennessee, and on Duck river, are a number of fortifications, … also, several fragments of earthen ware, and a sword about two feet long, differing from any in use since the white people visited the country, apparently once highly polished, but now much eaten with rust. Those who buried these articles there, could fashion the sword, and could make bricks, and use them by the masonic art.” (Haywood 1823, pg. 179) (The sword at this site was found in the state of New York by Smithsonian Researchers) “Engravings of the silver-plated discs and also of the embossed silver plate sup-posed by Dr. Hildreth to have been a sword ornament, are herewith presented. These articles have been critically examined, and it is beyond doubt that the copper “bosses” are absolutely plated, not simply overlaid, with silver. Between the copper and the silver exists a connection, such as, it seems to me, could only be produced by heat…. Again, if Dr. Hildreth is not mistaken, oxydized iron, or steel, was also discovered in connection with the above remains ; from which also follows, as a necessity upon the previous assumption, the extraordinary conclusion that the mound-builders were acquainted with the use of iron,” (Squier, pg. 87) (Items found in Hopewell Indian Ruins) “On the back side, opposite the depressed portion, is a copper rivet or nail, around which are two separate plates, by which they were fastened to the leather. Two small pieces of the leather were found lying between the holes of one of the bosses. They resemble the skin of an old mummy. The plates of copper are nearly reduced to rust. Around the rivet of one of them is a quantity of flax or hemp in a tolerable state of preservation. Near the side of the human body was a plate of silver, the upper part of a sword scabbard, six inches long, two wide, weighing one ounce. Three longitudinal ridges were on it, which perhaps corresponded with the edges or ridges of the sword.” (Haywood 1823 pg. 347) (An iron sword was found in a North Carolina mound. Due to this item Cryus Thomas who believed that the mounds were built after the Europeans arrived. We know the Hopewell mounds were built before Columbus) “The iron implements which are alluded to in the above-mentioned articles also in Science, as found in a North Carolina mound. “
(Cyrus Thomas 1889 pg. 31) (Items found in Hopewell Indian Ruins) “The iron was considerably oxidated, and when exposed to the air, dissolved and fell into small particles of rust, leaving only the handle, which was thick, and central parts adhering together. There were four or five of these swords, if we may so call them. The handle was round and cylindrical, and encircled with ferules or rings of silver.” (Haywood 1823 pg. 328) (Items found in Hopewell Indian Ruins) “The aborigines had some very well manufactured swords and knives of iron, and possibly of steel.” (Haywood 1823 pg. 349) (Items found in Hopewell Indian Ruins) “Where the makers of bricks, swords and entrenchments lived, and could not fail to have some surplus commodities to exchange for those foreign coins.” (Haywood 1823, pg. 177)
It’s a fact that Hopewell Indian made metal sheets. There are Indian traditional accounts of metal plate being used as records. Helaman 3:13 13 And now there are many records kept of the proceedings of this people, by many of this people, which are particular and very large, concerning them. (In reference to Hopewell ruins) “In Virginia, near Wheeling on Grave creek, is a mound 75 feet high, with many smaller ones around it. In the interior parts of this mound, are found human hones of large size, and mixed with them are two or three plates of brass, with characters inscribed resembling letters.” (Haywood 1823 pg. 82) (In reference to Hopewell ruins) “The shape of the two brass plates, — about a foot and a half in diameter. He said — he was told by his forefathers that those plates were given to them by the man we call God; that there had been many more of other shapes, some as long as he could stretch with both his arms, and some had writing upon them which were buried with particular men; and that they had instructions given with them, they must only be handled by particular people, ….He said, none but this town’s people had any such plates given them, and that they were a different people from the Creeks. He only remembered three more, which were buried with three of his family, and he was the only man of the family now left. He said, there were two copper plates under the king’s cabbin, which had lain there from the first settling of the town. This account was taken in the Tuccabatchey-square, 27th July, 1759, per Will, Bolsover. “ (Adair 1775 pg. 178) (In reference to Hopewell ruins) “In the interior parts of this mound, are found human bones of large size, and mixed with them are two or three plates of brass, with characters inscribed resembling letters. A mound near Chillicothe being removed, discovered near the bottom, in a cavity, the remains of some chieftain” (Haywood 1823 pg. 82) (In reference to Hopewell ruins) “There are certain enchanted beads, certain thin plates of copper, of which extraordinary figures are engraved, with inexplicable words and unknown characters” (Haywood 1823 pg. 346) “According to Morgan, the Muscogee proper, and perhaps also their incorporated tribes, have 22 clans. Of these the Wind appears to be the leading one, possessing privileges accorded to no other clan, including the hereditary guardianship of the ancient metal tablets which constitute the palladium of the tribe.” (Palladium’s meaning in the 19th and 18th century: for safety) (Mooney 1902 pg. 499) “To support their pretensions, this family hold in their possession a circular plate of virgin copper, on which is rudely marked indentations and hieroglyphics denoting the number of generations of the family who have passed away since they first pitched their lodges at Shaug-a-waum-ik-ong and took possession of the adjacent country, including the Island of La Pointe or Mo-ningwun-a-kaun-ing…. The old chief kept it carefully buried in the ground, and seldom displayed it” (Williams, pg. 63) “Above these is the arch of the heavens, with Roman numerals and Arabic figures scattered through and above it. The figure eight is repeated three times, the letter O repeated seven times. With these familiar characters are ethers which resemble letters of ancient alphabets, either Phoenician or Hebrew.” (Peet 1892, pg. 45) Mound Fortifications Hopewell/Nephite Indians built mound fortifications as a defense against invading Indian tribes. The Hopewell civilizations matches the Book of Mormon not only because of the timeline, but because of earthen mounds around all their cities, as stated in Alma 50:1. Alma 50:1 1 And now it came to pass that Moroni did not stop making preparations for war, or to defend his people against the Lamanites; for he caused that his armies should commence in the commencement of the twentieth year of the reign of the judges, that they should commence in digging up heaps of earth round about all the cities, throughout all the land which was possessed by the Nephites. Alma 49:4 4 But behold, how great was their disappointment; for behold, the Nephites had dug up a ridge of earth round about them, which was so high that the Lamanites could not cast their stones and their arrows at them that they might take effect, neither could they come upon them save it was by their place of entrance. Alma 50:2-4 2 And upon the top of these ridges of earth he caused that there should be timbers, yea, works of timbers built up to the height of a man, round about the cities. 3 And he caused that upon those works of timbers there should be a frame of pickets built upon the timbers round about; and they were strong and high. 4 And he caused towers to be erected that overlooked those works of pickets, and he caused places of security to be built upon those towers, that the stones and the arrows of the Lamanites could not hurt them. Description of the Hopewell Pollock Stockade “It consists of a series of earthen embankments ranging from three to ten feet in height that partially enclose a large, 120-acre, plateau located along Massie Creek. “Robert Riordan, an archaeologist with Wright State University, has directed many seasons of excavations at the Pollock Works revealing a complicated site history. The works appear to have been constructed in five major stages beginning as early as AD 50. One of these stages involved the erection of a large, timber stockade along the top of the earthen embankments.” When Squier described this site he said with a simple stockade this site would be impregnable. He did not know but archaeological excavation showed that at one time the Pollock Works did have a timber stockade. I could not find a reconstruction of Hopewell Indian stockade but did find a reconstructed stockade at Angel Mounds. This stockade dates past the Book of Mormon and Hopewell timeline to 1100AD-1450AD. I can only assume the building of defensive structures continued to be built by the Lamanites until the practice of building fortresses eventually died out altogether.
Angel Mound “Archaeological excavation revealed that the town was surrounded by a stockade, with the Ohio River acting as a barrier on the south side. A gateway was placed to the east, about a fourth of the way around from where the eastern flank of the stockade meets the river. A second barrier, a type of picket fence, was set 14 feet (4.3 m) outside the stockade. It was designed to slow the attackers as they came into range. In 1972 the park reconstructed part of the stockade, based on archaeological evidence. It stands 12′ high and is made of wooden posts set 4 feet deep into a narrow trench. The posts are covered with wattle and daub, a loose weaving of sticks covered with a mud-and-grass plaster. The defensive bastions were also reconstructed, which had been built every 10 to 11 feet (3.4 m) and projected 11 to 12 feet (3.7 m) from the wall. The original people planned the bastions at distances which defenders could cover with arrows or lances, thus protecting the walls from a direct attack.”
Mass Burial Pits and Battlegrounds Two thirds of the Book of Mormon is about wars between the Lamanites and Nephites. Large bone pits and piles were found in the state of New York and other states. These large bone pits are supportive evidence of the battles that took place between Nephites and Lamanites. In the last battles Mormon states that bodies of the Nephites were heaped into piles (Mormon 2:15). New York State: “It was called the “Bone Fort,” from the circumstance that the early settlers found within it a mound, six feet in height by thirty at the base, which was entirely made up of human bones slightly covered with earth… The popular opinion concerning this accumulation is, that it contained the bones of the slain, thus heaped together after some severe battle.” (Squier 1849) Kentucky: “Half a mile from this place, at the foot of the mountain, in a large cave full of human bones, perhaps several wagon loads; some of which are small, and others very large” (Haywood 1823 pg. 153) New York State: “The bones were of individuals of both sexes and of all ages. Among them were a few fetal bones. Many of the skulls bore marks of violence, leading to the belief that they were broken before burial.” (Squier 1849) Illinois: “Mr. Ramey, the owner of the mound, speaks about digging in one part of the field and finding heaps of bones eight feet deep, and says that the bones are everywhere present.” (Peet 1892 pg. 163) New York State: “Human bones have been discovered beneath the leaves; and in nearly every part of the trench skeletons of adults of both sexes, of children, and infants, have been found, covered only by the vegetable accumulations. They seem to have been thrown together promiscuously.” (Squier 1849) New York State: “Among them may be mentioned the “bone-pits,” or deposits of human bones. One is found near the village of Brownsville, on Black River. It is described as a pit, ten or twelve feet square, by perhaps four feet deep, in which are promiscuously heaped together a large number of human skeletons.” (Squier 1849)
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Part 2 Woven Cloth Worn as Clothing Hopewell Indian use of woven cloth matches the Book of Mormon description of Nephites wearing woven clothing and in some instances it being described as a status symbol. 4 Nephi 1:24 24 And now, in this two hundred and first year there began to be among them those who were lifted up in pride, such as the wearing of costly apparel, and all manner of fine pearls, and of the fine things of the world. “Skeleton 248 had been dressed in a skirt of finely woven cloth extending from the waist to the knees, to which had been sewn pearls, bears-teeth, and other ornaments.” (Moorehead 1922 pg. 169) “Unarguable Mississippian period representations of garments do exist, and these make credible the interpretation of the burial 103 fabric as a possible garment. For example, Phillips and Brown (1978: Plate 20) illustrate fragments of a Spiro engraved shell cup that depicts male human figures wearing tunics that cover one shoulder and a portion of the chest. One of a group of six human figures engraved on the Rocky Creek limestone slab (Parker 1949:Figure 2) is shown wearing a cloak-like garment that covers the shoulders, one arm, all but the lower part of the other arm, and the entire torso.” (A Most Indispensable Art: Native Fiber Industries from Eastern North America By James B. Petersen) “Equivocal representations of garments over the upper body include two almost identical shell gorgets from Mound C at Etowah, one of which came from the 1884 BAE excavations (Thomas 1894:Figure 190), and the other (unpublished) from burial 19 excavated in 1954 by Larson. The dual human figures have the upper body and arms covered with parallel lines that may represent a garment…” (A Most Indispensable Art: Native Fiber Industries from Eastern North America, by James B. Petersen) “The elite nature of the fabric evidence and the burial context warrants such in inference here. Mound C apparently supported a mortuary temple which, in turn served as the focus of an elaborate complex of funerary rituals associated with a high status social group at Etowah.” (Larson 1971) Christ’s Visit Book of Mormon states that Jesus Christ after his resurrection visited the American Indians after great natural disasters among the Nephites. Christ taught the people the gospel, he showed them the imprints in his hand, ordained disciples and performed miracles among the people. There are some Indian legends that support this visit. 3 Nephi 17:3 3 Therefore, go ye unto your homes, and ponder upon the things which I have said, and ask of the Father, in my name, that ye may understand, and prepare your minds for the morrow, and I come unto you again. (Iroquois Legend) “The visitor appeared very old man; he appeared among the people for a while; he taught them many things; how to respect their deceased friends, and to love their relations and he informed the people that the whites beyond the great water had killed their Maker, but he rose again.” (Cusick 1838 pg. 31) (Gaspesian/Micmac legend of a beautiful person who in a time of turmoil visited them. He taught them and performed miracles. The sleep mentioned in the quote would make sense during the three days of darkness mentioned in 3 Nephi. The cross mentioned in the quote is the Greek style cross - not to be confused with the evangelical cross. The Greek cross is a sacred symbol found in prehistoric Indian civilizations.) “They claim that, at a time when their country was afflicted with a very dangerous and deadly malady which had reduced them to an extreme destitution in every respect and had already sent many of them to their graves, certain old men of those whom they considered the best, the wisest, and the most influential, fell asleep, all overwhelmed with weariness and despair at seeing a desolation so general and the impending ruin of the entire Gaspesian nation … It was, say they, in this sleep filled with bitterness that a man, beautiful as could be, appeared to them with a Cross in his hand. He told them to take heart, to go back to their homes, to make Crosses like that which were shown them, and to present these to the heads of families with the assurance that if they would receive the Crosses with respect they would find these without question the remedy for all their ills. And so it turned out in fact, for the sickness ended, and all the afflicted who used the Cross with respect were restored miraculously to health. In this they were more happy.” (Clercq 1680 pg. 172) (Foretelling Christ’s visit to America there were incredible natural disaster. The Dakota Indians tell of an event passed down that matches the destruction explained in the Book of Mormon. The Dakota Indians explain that during a great and terrible tempest, with forked lightning and quaking of the earth an enemy Iowa village was ploughed to the earth to become a deep ravine where the village once stood. The Book of Mormon states in 3 Nephi Chapter 8 there were “terrible tempest”, “terrible thunder”, “exceedingly sharp lightnings”, ”exceedingly great quaking of the whole earth”, ”many smooth places became rough”, “And many great and notable cities were sunk”.) “The thunder, which the Dakotas believe to be a winged monster, and which in character seems to answer very well to the Mars of the ancient heathen, bore down upon the Iowa village in a most terrible and god-like manner. Tempests howled, the forked lightnings flashed, and the thunders uttered their voices; the earth trembled; a thunderbolt was hurled at the devoted village, which ploughed the earth, and formed that deep ravine.” (Miner 1911 pg. 29) (Father Clercq believed that the Gaspesian/Micmac Indians were taught the belief of the cross and the Christian gospel by previous missionaries, the Gaspesian Indians said differently) “One day to make these pagans admit that the missionaries who had preceded me had taught them the manner in which they ought to worship the Cross, the leading person said to me, “Well, now, thou art a Patriarch. Thou wishest that we believe everything that thou tellest us, but thou art not willing to believe that which we tell thee. Thou art not yet forty years old and for only two hast thou dwelt with the Indians; and yet thou pretendest to know our maxims, our traditions, and our customs better than our ancestors who have taught them to us. Dost thou not still see every day the old man Quioudo, who is more than a hundred and twenty years old: He saw the first ship which landed in our country. He has repeated to thee often that the Indians of Mizamichis have not received from strangers the use of the Cross, and that his own knowledge of it has been derived through tradition from his fathers, who lived for at least as long a time as he.” (Clercq 1680 pg. 191) The New Madrid Fault The New Madrid fault lies along the Mississippi river and has earthquakes that match the earthquake mentioned in the Book of Mormon that preceded Christ’s visit to America. It’s also worth noting that, as described in D&C 125:3, Zarahemla is along the Mississippi river, in the earthquake zone of the New Madrid Fault. The Book of Mormon describes areas of land that sank and lands that lifted and shaking that lasted for long periods of time. It also describes a vapor of darkness to the point that they could not light fires. Now compare eyewitness accounts of a New Madrid quake that happened in 1811. Quotes come from Joseph Knew website. “In all the hard shocks mentioned, the earth was horribly torn to pieces – the surface of hundreds of acres, was, from time to time, covered over, in various depths, by the sand which issued from the fissures, which were made in great numbers all over this country, some of which closed up immediately after they had vomited forth their sand and water, which it must be remarked, was the matter generally thrown up. In some places, however, there was a substance somewhat resembling coal, or impure stone coal, thrown up with the sand. It is impossible to say what the depths of the fissures or irregular breaks were; we have reason to believe that some of them are very deep.” – Eliza Bryan “The surface was sinking and a black liquid was rising up to the belly of my horse, who stood motionless, struck with a panic of terror […] water spouts, hundreds of them throwing water and sand were to be observed on the whole face of the country, the sand forming miniature volcanoes, whilst the water spouted out of the craters; some of the spouts were quite six feet high… In a few minutes, on both sides of the road as far as the eye could see, was vast expanse of sand and water, water and sand. The road spouted water, and wide openings were to be seen across it ahead of me, then under me, and my [vehicle] sank while the water and sand bubbled, and spat and sucked till my axles were covered.” – J Fletcher “I went ashore, and found the chasm really frightful, as it was not less than four feet in width and besides the bank had sunk at least two feet. I took the candle, examined to determine its length and concluded that it could not be less than eighty yards long.” – John Bradbury (on the Mississippi River) “The earth was broken in many places and the openings filled with water. The houses much injured – the only brick chimney in the place entirely demolished…” – Daniel Bedinger “We were visited by a violent shock of an earthquake, accompanied by a very awful noise resembling loud but distant thunder, but more hoarse and vibrating, which was followed in a few minutes by the complete saturation of the atmosphere, with sulphurious vapor, causing total darkness.” – Eliza Bryan “A dense black cloud of vapor overshadowed the land.” – Godfrey LeSieur
Unknown Characters and Language Mormon 9:34 – But the Lord knoweth the things which we have written, and also that none other people knoweth our language; and because that none other people knoweth our language, therefore he hath prepared means for the interpretation thereof. (Gaspesian/Micmac Indians Proposed Nephite/ Hopewell survivors) “The Gaspesian language has nothing at all in common, in its expressions, any more than in the meaning of its words, with the languages of our Europe ….because, amidst an infinity of different tongues which prevail among all these peoples, our Gaspesians are distinguished from the Montagniez, Soquoqui, Abennaqui, Hurons, Algomquins, Iroquois, and other nations of this new world, by a language which is peculiar to them.” (Clercq 1680 pg. 141) (The area mentioned in the quote corresponds with the Gaspesian/Micmac Indians lands the proposed Hopewell/ Nephites survivors) “A very respectable American author has imagined, that the Indian tribes to the northward of the river Saco spake a language very different from that of the tribes to the southward of the famed river. He informs us, that ”there was not one word” of the language of the tribes of Penobscot and St. John’s, who dwell to the northward of the Saco.” (Barton pg. LVIII) “Letters of an unknown alphabet are inscribed upon a rock in the western parts of New-York. There is a rock, called the Dighton rock, on Taunton River, near Dighton, in Massachusetts. It is a large rock in the margin of the sea, and upon it are inscriptions in strange characters, partly alphabetical and partly hieroglyphic.” (Haywood 1823 pg. 329) “There are certain enchanted beads, thin plates of copper, of which extraordinary figures are engraved, with inexplicable words and unknown characters.” (Haywood 1823 pg. 346) A Lost Book/Gospel (Concerning Hattera Indians of North Carolina) “These (Hattera Indians) tell us, that several of their Ancestors were white People, and could talk in a Book, as we do; the Truth of which is confirmed by gray eyes being found frequently amongst these Indians, and no others” (John Lawson 1709 pg. 62) (About Gaspesian/Micmac Indians) “They hold, further, that it could well have been a fact that these individuals were instructed in the sacred mysteries of our holy Religion, and that they had even a knowledge and the use of letters, since, in the establishment of colonies, it is customary to send there men who are alike learned and pious, in order that they may teach to the peoples, along with purely human knowledge, the most solid maxims of Christian wisdom and piety. Nobody, however, having followed them in these glorious employments, the knowledge which they had of the true God, of letters, and of their origin, was thus gradually lost and effaced from the minds of their unfortunate posterity by the lapse of time.” (Clercq 1680 pg. 86) (Gaspesian/Micmac Indians) “These people had received in times past a knowledge of the Gospel and of Christianity, which they have finally lost through the negligence and the licentiousness of their ancestors.” (Clercq 1680 pg. 86) (In reference to the North American Indians) “It is said among their principal or beloved men, that they have it handed down from their ancestors, that the book which the white people have was once theirs. That while they say that their forefathers were possessed of an extraordinary divine spirit, by which they foretold future events, and controlled the common course of nature, and this they transmitted to their offspring, on condition of their obeying the sacred laws. That they did by these means bring down showers of plenty on the beloved people. But that this power, for a long time past, had entirely ceased.” (Boudinet 1816 pg. 114) “Colonel M. inquired why the Indians had not learned these arts of the white people. He replied indefinitely, relating that the Great Spirit had once given the Indians a book, which taught them all these arts, but that they had lost it, and had never since regained the knowledge of them.” (M.H. Frost 1819; On the aborigines of the Western Countries) According to an old Cherokee quoted by Buttrick: “God gave the red man a book and a paper and told him to write, but he merely made marks on the paper, and as he could not read or write, the Lord gave him a bow and arrows, and gave the book to the white man.” Boudinot, in “A Star in the West,”‘ quoted by the same author, says: “They have it handed down from their ancestors, that the book which the white people have was once theirs; that while they had it they prospered exceedingly; but that the white people bought it of them and learned many things from it, while the Indians lost credit, offended the Great Spirit, and suffered exceedingly from the neighboring nations; that the Great Spirit took pity on them and directed them to this country,” (Mooney 1902 pg. 483) “According to Morgan, the Muscogee proper, and perhaps also their incorporated tribes, have 22 clans. Of these the Wind appears to be the leading one, possessing privileges accorded to no other clan, including the hereditary guardianship of the ancient metal tablets which constitute the palladium of the tribe.” (Palladium in the 19th and 18th century means for safety) (Mooney 1902 pg. 499) Hebrew and Greek language comparisons There are examples of Hebrew customs, characters, beliefs and language among Native Americans. According to Mormon, they knew how to write in Hebrew and of course had Hebrew customs and beliefs (Mormon 9:33). The Greek language is also compared to the Native American languages of the Indians. Greek and Hebrew language are related to each other. Both languages according to anthropologist descended from the Phoenician language and writing system. Below are examples of what appears to be Book of Mormon names of Greek origin and quotes from early explores and settlers who lived with North American Indian tribes. “Antipas – name of a general in the Book of Mormon (Alma 56); name of a mountain in the Book of Mormon (Alma 47:7, 10); It is a Greek name, an abbreviation for ‘Antipater.’ Archeantus – Nephite commander (Moroni 9:2); a typical Greek formation, made using the Greek prefix ‘arch-‘ (“great, chief”), as in the Biblical Greek names Archelaus and Archippus. Judea – the name of a Nephite city (Alma 56, 57); it is the Greek (i.e., New Testament) form of the Hebrew name ‘Judah,’ referring to the tribe, the Southern Kingdom, and the area of southern Palestine occupied by the tribe of Judah (the Jews). Angola – city name at Mormon 2:4 – Greek ‘angelos’, meaning ’angel’” Mormon 9:33 – And if our plates had been sufficiently large we should have written in Hebrew; but the Hebrew hath been altered by us also; and if we could have written in Hebrew, behold, ye would have had no imperfection in our record. Creek Indians also had similarities to the Hebrew language. Considering that Nephites became Lamanites and Lamanites became Nephites this is not surprising: “The name of the Creeks for man, is ishto, and so it is in Hebrew…The same remark might be made with respect to the word Kenaai, for Canaan. Jehovah they call Y-he-ho-wah. The roof of the house they call toubanora; in the Hebrew it is debonaour. The nose they call nichiri in Hebrew, neheri. The great first cause, Yo-hewah; in Hebrew, Jehovah. Praise the first cause, in their language, halleluwah; in Hebrew, hallelujah. Father they call abba; the same in Hebrew. Now they call na; in Hebrew, na. To pray they call pliale; in Hebrew, phalae. In their language, abel is manslaughter; the same in Hebrew. Wife, awah; in Hebrew, eve, or eweh. Winter, kora in Hebrew, cora. God, Ale; in Hebrew, Ale, or Alohini. A high mountain, ararat; the same by the Indians of Penobscot.” (Haywood 1823 pg. 282) Silas T Rand knew several languages to include Hebrew concerning Micmac Indians: “There are also some words in the language which resemble Greek. The Micmac word Ellenu, an Indian, is not very different from Hellene, a Greek. Ellenu esit (“He speaks Micmac”) is strikingly like the Greek, Hellenize (“He speaks Greek”). But in other respects the language resembles the Hebrew, especially in the suffixes by which the pronouns are connected in the accusative case with the verb.” (Silas T Rand 1893) “Their languages are very diverse and differs as much from one another as Dutch, French, Greek and Latin. Declension and conjugation resemble those in Greek, for they, like the Greeks, Have duals in their nouns and even augments in their verbs.” (In Mohawk Country: Early Narratives About a Native People) “Shilu in Indian is the same as Shiloh in Hebrew; the Indian word for father is Abba; the word for “waiter of the high priest” is Sagan in both Indian and Hebrew; the word for man in Indian is Ish or Ishie.” (Adair 1735) Gaspesian/Micmac Indians: “Our Indians agree with the Greeks and Latins in this, that they use always the singular, and almost never, or at least very rarely, the plural, even when they speak to their missionaries, or to some other person of prominence. They express themselves by the word kir^ which means “thou,” whether it is the child speaking to its father, the wife to her husband, or the husband to his wife.” (Clercq 1680 pg. 141)
Native American and Hebrew beliefs and customs (About Gaspesian/Micmac Indians) “They say that when the sun, which they have always recognized and worshiped as their God, created all this great universe, he divided the earth immediately into several parts, wholly separated one from the other by great lakes : that in each part he caused to be born one man and one woman, and they multiplied and lived a very long time : hut that having become wicked along with their children, who killed one another, the sun wept with grief thereat, and the rain fell from the heaven in such great abundance that the waters mounted even to the summit of the rocks, and of the highest and most lofty mountains. This flood, which, say they, was general over all the earth, compelled them to set sail in their bark canoes.” (Clercq 1680 pg. 85) (Cherokee belief of a great deluge) “A long time ago a man had a dog, which began to go down to the river every day and look at the water and howl. At last the man was angry and scolded the dog, which then spoke to him and said: “Very soon there is going to be a great freshet and the water will come so high that everybody will be drowned; but if you will make a raft to get upon when the rain comes you can be saved, but you must first throw me into the water.” The man did not believe it, and the dog said, “If you want a sign that I speak the truth, look at the back of my neck.” He looked and saw that the dog’s neck had the skin worn off so that the bones stuck out. Then he believed the dog, and began to build a raft. Soon the rain came and he took his family, with plenty of provisions, and they all got upon it. It rained for a long time, and the water rose until the mountains were covered and all the people in the world were drowned. Then the rain stopped and the waters went down again, until at last it was safe to come off the raft. Now there was no one alive but the man and his family, but one day they heard a sound of dancing and shouting on the other side of the ridge. The man climbed to the top and looked over; everything was still, but all along the valley he saw great piles of bones of the people who had been drowned, and then he knew that the ghosts had been dancing.” (Mooney 1902 pg. 261) (Gaspesian/Micmac Indians - Hebrew one year betrothal and dowry) “The one of our Indians who wishes to marry a girl must live an entire year in the wigwam of his mistress’s father, whom he must serve and to whom he must give all the furs of moose and beavers which he kills in hunting. By the same law it is forbidden to the future husband and wife to abandon themselves to their pleasure.” (Clercq 1680 pg. 238) (Gaspesian/Micmac Indians - ancient Hebrew belief of a women being unclean during her menstrual period) “A matter which is yet more surprising is this - they observe still to this day certain ceremonies of which they do not know the origin, giving no other reasons than that their ancestors have always practiced the same thing. The first is this, that the women and girls, when they suffer the inconveniences usual to their sex, are accounted unclean.” (Clercq 1680 pg. 227) In 1735, James Adair lived isolated among the North American Indians for 40 years. He wrote a book about their customs and practices of the Indians. In this book he postulated that the Indians are from the lost 12 tribes of Israel he stated 22 reason listed below: “1. Their division into tribes. 2. Their worship of J-hov-h. 3. Their notions of a theocracy. 4. Their belief in the administration of angels. 5. Their language and dialects. 6. Their manner of counting time. 7. Their prophets and high priests. 8. Their festivals, fasts and religious rites. 9. Their daily sacrifice. 10. Their ablutions and anointings. 11. Their laws of uncleanliness. 12. Their abstinence from unclean things. 18. Their marriage, divorces and punishments of adultery. 14. Their several punishments. 15. Their cities of refuge. 16. Their purifications and preparatory ceremonies. 17. Their ornaments. 18. Their manner of’ curing the sick. 19. Their burial of the dead. 20. Their mourning for the dead. 21. Their raising seed to a deceased brother. 22. Their change of names adapted to their circumstances and times.” (Gaspesian/Micmac Indians - This one is more Egyptian, but the Hebrews were once enslaved by the Egyptians.) “I have learned only this from our Indians, that the chiefs of their nation formerly entrusted the bodies of the dead to certain old men, who carried them sacredly to a wigwam built on purpose in the midst of the woods, where they remained for a month or six weeks. They opened the head and the belly of the dead person, and removed therefrom the brain and the entrails.” (Clercq 1680 pg. 302) “They are either descendants of the lost tribes of Israel, or they have had, in some former era, a close contact and intercourse with the Hebrews, imbibing from them their beliefs and customs and the traditions of their patriarchs.” (Warren Williams, Ojibwa History) (Gaspesian/Micmac Indians) “After the death of one’s brother, it is permissible to marry his wife, in order that she may have children of the same blood if she has not had any by her first husband.” (Clercq 1680 pg. 228)
Native American Idioms and Phraseology Native American idioms and phraseology, as described by early settlers, are consistent with the Old Testament and the Book of Mormon. Below are some examples of Native American idioms consistent with scripture. Examples are from John Heckewelder’s Manners and Customs of The Indian Nations Who Once Inhabited Pennsylvania and the Neighboring States. Native American saying: “I will place you under my wings!” Meaning: I will protect you at all hazards! You shall be perfectly safe, nobody shall molest you! Scripture: 3 Nephi 10:6 O ye house of Israel whom I have spared, how oft will I gather you as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, if ye will repent and return unto me with full purpose of heart. (Heckewelder pg. 139) Native American saying: ”To bury deep in the earth” (an injury done) Meaning: To consign it to oblivion. Scripture: 2 Nephi 26:5 And they that kill the prophets, and the saints, the depths of the earth shall swallow them up, saith the Lord of Hosts; and mountains shall cover them. (Heckewelder pg. 140) Native American saying: “You have spoken with your lips only, not from the heart!” Meaning: You endeavor to deceive me; you do not intend to do as you say! Scripture: 2 Nephi 27:25 Forasmuch as this people draw near unto me with their mouth, and with their lips do honor me, but have removed their hearts far from me, and their fear towards me is taught by the precepts of men. (Heckewelder pg. 139) Native American saying: “draw the thorns out of your feet and legs, grease your Stiffened joints with oil, and wipe the sweat off your body.” Meaning: I make you feel comfortable after your fatiguing journey, that you may enjoy yourself while with us. Hebrew Custom: The washing of feet is a Hebrew custom. It was the first item done when entering a house or tent. The host would provide the water and the guest would wash his own feet. If the host was wealthy, a slave would wash the feet. Anointing of oil was used by Jews to refresh and invigorate the body. This custom is still done today by Arabians. In the example there are some similarities in the cleaning of feet and legs from thorns and the anointing of oil or grease to refresh the body. (Heckewelder pg. 139) Temple/Masonic Medallion “They call themselves Aquanuskion (Algonquin), or ye Covenant People.” (Louise Welles Murray 1908) (Gaspesian/Micmac Indians) “Not an Indian would ever dare to appear before the others without having in his hand, on his skin, or on his garments this sacred sign.” (Clercq 1680 pg. 147) Mosiah 11:10 – And he also caused that his workmen should work all manner of fine work within the walls of the temple, of fine wood, and of copper, and of brass. (In reference to the Natchez of Mississippi, who said a race that preceded them built temples with much skill, and also taught them to build temples) “Their temples were built with much skill and labor. They made very beautiful things with all kinds of materials, such as gold, silver, stones, wood, fabrics, feathers, and many other things in which they made their skill appear. “A remarkable temple was situated in the town of Talmaco, upon the Savannah River, three miles distant from Cutifatchique, near Silver Bluff. It was more than one hundred feet in length, and fifty feet in width. The walls were high in proportion, and the roof steep and covered with mats of split cane, interwoven so compactly that they resembled the rush carpeting of the Moors.” (Jones, The American Naturalist, Vol 3 1869) “In 1934, the Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA), was constructing a dam which would flood a portion of the Clinch River in East Tennessee. Because the area to be flooded included a Hopewell Native American mound, a group of archeologists were called in to excavate the site. The archeologists came upon an amazing discovery when they uncovered the ruins of a large stone and wood structure. So unlike any other find found at a Hopewell site, British Egyptologist, James Rendel Harris from the London Museum, was consulted. At the site, Harris identified the structure as an “Egyptian Temple”. A single newspaper article documents this account. “In the center of the mound, about three feet from its surface, I uncovered a large sacrificial vase, or altar, forty-three inches in diameter, composed of a mixture of clay and river shells. The rim of the vase was three inches in height. The entire vessel had been molded in a large wicker basket, formed of split canes, and the leaves of the cane, the impressions of which were plainly visible upon the outer surface. The circle of the vase appeared to be almost mathematically correct. The surface of the altar was covered with a layer of ashes, about one inch in thickness, and these ashes had the appearance and composition of having been derived from the burning.” (Jones, The American Naturalist, Vol 3 1869) (During ancient times, Hebrews were commanded to maintain an eternal flame at the tabernacle/temple - Exodus 27:20, 21) “Henri de Tonto, who travelled with de la Salle and wrote an extensive report, thought them most “polished” people he had seen. As with the Illinois and Natchez, they maintained a sacred fire that was never allowed to go out in their major Temple… an elaborate palace with decorated walls ten feet high.” (A Cultural History of the Atlantic World, 1250-1820, by John K. Thornton) “The Potta-wat-um-ees moved up Lake Michigan, and by taking with them, or for a time perpetuating the national fire, which according to tradition was sacredly kept alive in their more primitive days, they have obtained the name of “those who make or keep the fire,” which is the literal meaning of their tribal cognomen.” (Warren Williams, Ojibwa History) (Gaspesian/Micmac Indians) “In a word, they value the [Greek style] Cross so highly that they order it to be interred with them in their coffins after death, in the belief that this Cross will bear them company in the other world, and that they would not be recognised by their ancestors if they had not with them the symbol and honourable token which distinguishes the Cross-bearers from all the other Indians of New France.” (Clercq 1680 pg. 151) (Incense) To this day Native Americans hold tobacco sacred it is used in their religious ceremonies. As described by a Native American, when the tobacco smoke rises, it sends their prayers up to the creator. In the days of Moses and the Old Testament, incense was burned in the temple. It represented prayers ascending to God. “Near Portsmouth, a flourishing town at the mouth of the Scioto, a medal was found in alluvial earth, several years since, by a Mr. White, a number of feet below the surface….This medal, I regret to state, is not in my possession, but it has been described to me by Gen. Robert Lucas and the Hon. Ezra Osborn, Esq. It was Masonic; the device on one side of it, represented a human heart with a sprig of cassia growing out of it; on the other side was a temple, with a cupola and spire, at the summit of which was a half moon, and there was a star in front of the temple. There were Roman letters on both sides of this medal, but what they were, Gen. Lucas and Judge Osborn have forgotten; they were probably abbreviations.” (Atwater 1833, pg. 117)
Book of Mormon ties Listed are what I believe to be ties to the Book of Mormon, either through legend or culture. Kishkumen An Ojibwa Indian Chief named Keeshkemun, who succeeded his father to be chief, is mentioned in Warren’s book, Ojibwa History. Keeshkemun sounds strikingly similar to Kishkumen the Gadianton leader and one of the cities mentioned in the Book of Mormon. In fact if you google Keeshkemun, Kishkumen will come up. Ojibwa have some of the highest haplogroup X DNA. Native American Council Tower Mosiah 2:7 7 For the multitude being so great that king Benjamin could not teach them all within the walls of the temple, therefore he caused a tower to be erected, that thereby his people might hear the words which he should speak unto them. “Professor Carr of its once having supported a building similar to the council-house observed by Bartram on a mound at the old Cherokee town Cowe. Both were built on mounds, both were circular, both were built on posts set in the ground at equal distances from each other, and each had a central pillar. As tending to confirm this statement of Bartram’s, the following passage may be quoted, where, speaking of Colonel Christian’s march against the Cherokee towns in 1770, Eamsey says that this officer found in the center of each town ”a circular tower rudely built and covered with dirt, 30 feet in diameter, and about 20 feet high. This tower was used as a council-house… Mr. M. C. Bead, of Hudson, Ohio, discovered similar evidences in a mound near Chattanooga, and Mr. Gerard Fowke has quite recently found the same thing in a mound at Waverly, Ohio.” (Thomas 1889 pg. 32) The Lamanite Daughters This is a stretch, but worth the effort. It has bits and pieces of the account of the Lamanite daughters. The Cherokee have a myth listed below, which I find ties to the Lamanite daughters who would go out to Shemlon to dance and make merry, but are abducted by the priests of Noah and become their spouses. The Lamanites try to find the daughters and blame the Nephites for their disappearance, which causes a war. This war continues until the Lamanites are told that the Nephites did not abduct the girls. The daughters stop the priests from being killed when they are found out. “Allured by the haunting sound and diamond sparkle of a mountain stream, she wandered far up into a solitary glen[.] The dream picture of a fairyland was presently broken by the soft touch of a strange hand. The spirit of her dream occupied a place at her side, and, wooing, won her for his bride. “Her supposed abduction caused great excitement among her people, who made diligent search for her recovery in their own villages. Being unsuccessful, they made war upon the neighboring tribes in the hope of finding the place of her concealment. Grieved because of so much bloodshed and sorrow, she besought the great chief[.] She appeared unto the chiefs in a dream (to stop the fighting).” (Mooney 1902 pg. 478) The Saying Bury the Hatchet The Book of Mormon tells the history of the Anti-Nephi’s, a Lamanite people who no longer wanted to fight or kill other people. They made this covenant to God to longer fight by burying their weapons in the ground, never to use them again even in the case of self-defense for themselves or for their family. The saying bury the hatchet comes from the Algonquin Indians of the Great Lakes area who also made peace by burying their weapons of war. As mentioned before, I think the Hopewell Indians are the best candidate to be the Nephites for numerous reasons - this is one of them. The first mention of the practice in English is to an actual hatchet-burying ceremony. Years before he gained notoriety for presiding over the Salem witch trials, Samuel Sewall wrote in 1680, “I write to you in one [letter] of the Mischief the Mohawks did; which occasioned Major Pynchon’s going to Albany, where meeting with the Sachem the[y] came to an agreement and buried two Axes in the Ground; one for English another for themselves; which ceremony to them is more significant & binding than all Articles of Peace[,] the hatchet being a principal weapon with them.” (South Carolina and the Cherokee Nation 1785) Treaty of Hopewell 1785, Keowee, South Carolina: signed by Col. Benjamin Hawkins, Gen. Andrew Pickens and Headman McIntosh, establishing the boundary of the Cherokee Nation. Use of the phrase ‘Bury the Hatchet: “ARTICLE 13. The hatchet shall be forever buried, and the peace given by the United States, and friendship re-established between the said states on the one part, and all the Cherokees on the other, shall be universal; and the contracting parties shall use their utmost endeavors to maintain the peace given as aforesaid, and friendship re-established.”
And you've posted all of that nonsense over and over, and you never respond to any comments or questions about it, you never support your decisions to use up to centuries-old, repeatedly discredited sources that you regularly mis-interpret. That's not debate, McKane, it's just stubbornly sticking to your racist, supremacist stance. Why? You make your church look bad, and those you serve with.
This is holding more and more:
tapirrider wrote:Bomgeography, you are really making things worse for yourself with each post that you write. I truly hope that you are not using Department of Defense equipment to do this with, and if you are not lying and are really serving in the Army, you are making derogatory claims about the ancestry of every American Indian who has served and/or is currently serving in the Armed Forces of the United States. Native Americans serve greater numbers than any other ethnic group and have a higher concentration of female Servicemembers than all other Servicemembers. I do not appreciate you advocating a doctrine of white supremacy that is derogatory to your fellow service members and veterans who happen to be American Indians.