Maksutov wrote:I get a kick out of how the Christians blamed the Jews for the death of Jesus so they could suck up to the Romans. The blood libel started early.
Well, if you have a choice between being fed to the lions or sucking up ..... scapegoat the jews!
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen
Maksutov wrote:I get a kick out of how the Christians blamed the Jews for the death of Jesus so they could suck up to the Romans. The blood libel started early.
Well, if you have a choice between being fed to the lions or sucking up ..... scapegoat the jews!
I find it difficult to see how Christians in the first couple of centuries were being offered any such choice. They were involved in an interJewish dispute. The first threats to the community were from fellow Jews. That is in no way an excuse for what happened in later centuries, and centuries after that.
But perhaps it is worth something to follow the historical developement of cultural violence. I think so even if it creates no excuse for the ugly dimensions of Christian history.
Maksutov wrote:I get a kick out of how the Christians blamed the Jews for the death of Jesus so they could suck up to the Romans. The blood libel started early.
I do not blame the Jews. The Jew represents humanity. The Jews are the Chosen People (they still are). The woman through whom The Christ came was Jewish. The step father was Jewish. Jesus was raised Jewish. And all true Christians are grafted onto the root of Abraham.
The sin of Adam is why Jesus the Messiah had to be sacrificed. We are all related to Adam, through Noah. Jesus gave up His life --- no one took it from Him. People who blame the Jews simply do not understand Christianity.
At dawn, He reappeared in the Temple Court, where all the people gathered around Him, and He sat down to teach them.
The Lawyers and the Pharisees brought in a woman who had been caught committing adultery and placed her at the center of the group.
Then they said to Jesus, “Rabbi, this woman was caught in the actual act of adultery.
Now in our Law, Moses commanded that such a woman be stoned to death. What do you say regarding it?”
They said this to trap Him, so that they might have a reason to bringing charges against Him; but Jesus bent down and began writing in the dust using His finger.
When they continued questioning him, Jesus rose up and said to them, “Whichever of you who is sinless, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.”
Then Jesus bent down and continued writing in the dust.
Upon hearing this, they began to depart, one by one, the older ones first, until Jesus was left alone, with the woman still remaining.
Standing up, Jesus said to her, “So, Where are they? Has no one condemned you?”
She said, “No one, sir.” Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you. Leave, and don’t sin any more.”
Jesus spoke to them again: “I am the light of the world; whoever follows Me will never walk in darkness but will have the light providing life.”
So the Pharisees said to Jesus, “Now you’re testifying on your own behalf; your testimony is not valid.”
Jesus answered them, “Even if I do testify on my own behalf, my testimony is indeed valid; because I know where I'm from and where I’m headed; but you do not know where I'm from or where I’m going.
You judge applying human logic. As for Myself, I pass judgment on no one;
but if I were to pass judgment, my judgment would be valid; because it is not I alone who judge, but I and the One who sent me.
And even in your Law it is written that the testimony of two people is valid.
I testify on my own behalf, and so does the Father who sent Me.”
They said to Him, “Where is this ‘father’ of yours?” Jesus answered, “You know neither me nor my Father; if you knew Me, you would also know My Father.”
He said these things when He was teaching in the Temple treasury room; yet no one arrested Jesus, because His moment had not yet arrived.
Again Jesus told them, “I Am going away, and you will seek Me, but you will die in your sin — where I am going, you cannot follow.”
The Judeans said, “Is he going to commit suicide? Is that what He means when He says, ‘Where I'm going, you cannot come’?”
Jesus said to them, “You are from below, I'm from above; you are a product of this world, I'm not of this world.
This is why I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not trust that I AM who I AM, you will die in your sins.”
At this, they said to him, “You? Who are you?” Jesus answered, “Just what I’ve been telling you from the start.
There are many things I could say about you, and many judgments I could make. However, the One who sent me is true; so I say now only what I have heard from Him.”
They did not comprehend that He was talking to them about the Father.
So Jesus said, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I AM who I AM, and that of Myself I do nothing, but reveal only what the Father has taught Me.
Also, the One who sent Me is still with Me; He did not leave Me to myself, because I always do what pleases Him.”
Many people who heard him say these things trusted in Him. ' Jesus said to the Judeans who had trusted Him, “If you obey what I say, then you are really My disciples,
you will realize the truth, and the truth will free you.”
They answered, “We are the seed of Abraham and have never been slaves to anyone; so what do you mean by saying, ‘You will be freed’?”
Jesus answered them, “Yes, indeed! I tell you that everyone who practices sin is enslaved to it.
Now a slave does not remain with a family forever, but a son does remain attached forever.
So if the Son frees you, you will really be free!
I know you are the seed of Abraham. Yet you are out to murder Me, because what I'm saying makes no headway in you.
I say what my Father has shown me; you do what your father has told you!”
They answered Him, “Our father is Abraham.” Jesus replied, “If you are children of Abraham, then do as Avraham did!
As it is, you are out to destroy Me, a man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham didn't do that!
You are doing the things your father does.” “We’re not illegitimate children!” they told Him. “We have only one Father — God!”
Jesus replied to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me; because I emanate from God; and now I have arrived here. I did not come on My Own --- God sent Me.
Why don’t you comprehend what I’m saying? Because you can’t bear to hear My message.
You belong to your father, Satan, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. From the start he was a murderer, and he has never stood by the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he tells a lie, he is speaking in character; because he is a liar — actually, the inventor of the lie!
But as for Me, because I tell the truth you don’t believe Me.
Which one of you can show me my mistakes? If I’m telling the truth, why don’t you believe Me?
Whoever belongs to God listens to what God says; the reason you don’t listen is that you don’t belong to God.”
The Judeans answered Jesus, “Aren’t we correct saying you are from Samaria and are demon possessed?”
Jesus replied, “Me? I have no demon. I am honoring my Father. But you dishonor Me.
I'm not seeking praise for myself. There is One who is seeking it, and he is the judge.
Yes, indeed! I tell you that whoever obeys my teaching will never see death.”
The Judeans said to Jesus, “Now we realize that you have a demon! Abraham died, and so did the prophets; yet You say, ‘Whoever obeys My teaching will never taste death.’
Father Abraham died; You aren’t greater than he, are You? And the prophets also died. Who do You think You are?”
Jesus answered, “If I praise myself, my praise doesn't matter. The One praising Me is my Father, the very One about whom you keep saying, ‘He is our God.’
Now you have not known Him, but I do know Him. Truthfully, if I were to say that I don’t know Him, I would be a liar like you! But I do know Him, and I obey His word.
Abraham, your father, was glad that he would see my day; then he witnessed it and was ecstatic.”
“Why, you’re not even 50 years old,” the Judeans replied, “and you have seen Abraham?”
Jesus said to them, “Yes, indeed! Before Abraham existed, I AM!”
At this, they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus was hidden and left the Temple grounds.
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1And at dawn he came again to the temple,
2 and all the people were coming unto him, and having sat down, he was teaching them;
3 and the scribes and the Pharisees bring unto him a woman having been taken in adultery, and having set her in the midst,
4 they say to him, `Teacher, this woman was taken in the very crime -- committing adultery,
5 and in the law, Moses did command us that such be stoned; thou, therefore, what dost thou say?'
6 and this they said, trying him, that they might have to accuse him. And Jesus, having stooped down, with the finger he was writing on the ground,
7 and when they continued asking him, having bent himself back, he said unto them, `The sinless of you -- let him first cast the stone at her;'
8 and again having stooped down, he was writing on the ground,
9 and they having heard, and by the conscience being convicted, were going forth one by one, having begun from the elders -- unto the last; and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10 And Jesus having bent himself back, and having seen no one but the woman, said to her, `Woman, where are those -- thine accusers? did no one pass sentence upon thee?'
11 and she said, `No one, Sir;' and Jesus said to her, `Neither do I pass sentence on thee; be going on, and no more sin.'
12 Again, therefore, Jesus spake to them, saying, `I am the light of the world; he who is following me shall not walk in the darkness, but he shall have the light of the life.'
13 The Pharisees, therefore, said to him, `Thou of thyself dost testify, thy testimony is not true;'
14 Jesus answered and said to them, `And if I testify of myself -- my testimony is true, because I have known whence I came, and whither I go, and ye -- ye have not known whence I come, or whither I go.
15 `Ye according to the flesh do judge; I do not judge any one,
16 and even if I do judge my judgment is true, because I am not alone, but I and the Father who sent me;
17 and also in your law it hath been written, that the testimony of two men are true;
18 I am [one] who is testifying of myself, and the Father who sent me doth testify of me.'
19 They said, therefore, to him, `Where is thy father?' Jesus answered, `Ye have neither known me nor my Father: if me ye had known, my Father also ye had known.'
20 These sayings spake Jesus in the treasury, teaching in the temple, and no one seized him, because his hour had not yet come;
21 therefore said Jesus again to them, `I go away, and ye will seek me, and in your sin ye shall die; whither I go away, ye are not able to come.'
22 The Jews, therefore, said, `Will he kill himself, because he saith, Whither I go away, ye are not able to come?'
23 and he said to them, `Ye are from beneath, I am from above; ye are of this world, I am not of this world;
24 I said, therefore, to you, that ye shall die in your sins, for if ye may not believe that I am [he], ye shall die in your sins.'
25 They said, therefore, to him, `Thou -- who art thou?' and Jesus said to them, `Even what I did speak of to you at the beginning;
26 many things I have to speak concerning you and to judge, but He who sent me is true, and I -- what things I heard from Him -- these I say to the world.'
27 They knew not that of the Father he spake to them;
28 Jesus, therefore, said to them, `When ye may lift up the Son of Man then ye will know that I am [he]; and of myself I do nothing, but according as my Father did teach me, these things I speak;
29 and He who sent me is with me; the Father did not leave me alone, because I, the things pleasing to Him, do always.'
30 As he is speaking these things, many believed in him;
31 Jesus, therefore, said unto the Jews who believed in him, `If ye may remain in my word, truly my disciples ye are, and ye shall know the truth,
32 and the truth shall make you free.'
33 They answered him, `Seed of Abraham we are; and to no one have we been servants at any time; how dost thou say -- Ye shall become free?'
34 Jesus answered them, `Verily, verily, I say to you -- Every one who is committing sin, is a servant of the sin,
35 and the servant doth not remain in the house -- to the age, the son doth remain -- to the age;
36 if then the son may make you free, in reality ye shall be free.
37 `I have known that ye are seed of Abraham, but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you;
38 I -- that which I have seen with my Father do speak, and ye, therefore, that which ye have seen with your father -- ye do.'
39 They answered and said to him, `Our father is Abraham;' Jesus saith to them, `If children of Abraham ye were, the works of Abraham ye were doing;
40 and now, ye seek to kill me -- a man who hath spoken to you the truth I heard from God; this Abraham did not;
41 ye do the works of your father.' They said, therefore, to him, `We of whoredom have not been born; one Father we have -- God;'
42 Jesus then said to them, `If God were your father, ye were loving me, for I came forth from God, and am come; for neither have I come of myself, but He sent me;
43 wherefore do ye not know my speech? because ye are not able to hear my word.
44 `Ye are of a father -- the devil, and the desires of your father ye will to do; he was a man-slayer from the beginning, and in the truth he hath not stood, because there is no truth in him; when one may speak the falsehood, of his own he speaketh, because he is a liar -- also his father.
45 `And because I say the truth, ye do not believe me.
46 Who of you doth convict me of sin? and if I speak truth, wherefore do ye not believe me?
47 he who is of God, the sayings of God he doth hear; because of this ye do not hear, because of God ye are not.'
48 The Jews, therefore, answered and said to him, `Do we not say well, that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a demon?'
49 Jesus answered, `I have not a demon, but I honour my Father, and ye dishonour me;
50 and I do not seek my own glory; there is who is seeking and is judging;
51 verily, verily, I say to you, If any one may keep my word, death he may not see -- to the age.'
52 The Jews, therefore, said to him, `Now we have known that thou hast a demon; Abraham did die, and the prophets, and thou dost say, If any one may keep my word, he shall not taste of death -- to the age!
53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, who died? and the prophets died; whom dost thou make thyself?'
54 Jesus answered, `If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing; it is my Father who is glorifying me, of whom ye say that He is your God;
55 and ye have not known Him, and I have known Him, and if I say that I have not known Him, I shall be like you -- speaking falsely; but I have known Him, and His word I keep;
56 Abraham, your father, was glad that he might see my day; and he saw, and did rejoice.'
57 The Jews, therefore, said unto him, `Thou art not yet fifty years old, and Abraham hast thou seen?'
58 Jesus said to them, `Verily, verily, I say to you, Before Abraham's coming -- I am;'
59 they took up, therefore, stones that they may cast at him, but Jesus hid himself, and went forth out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
Maksutov wrote:I get a kick out of how the Christians blamed the Jews for the death of Jesus so they could suck up to the Romans. The blood libel started early.
I do not blame the Jews. The Jew represents humanity. The Jews are the Chosen People (they still are). The woman through whom The Christ came was Jewish. The step father was Jewish. Jesus was raised Jewish. And all true Christians are grafted onto the root of Abraham.
The sin of Adam is why Jesus the Messiah had to be sacrificed. We are all related to Adam, through Noah. Jesus gave up His life --- no one took it from Him. People who blame the Jews simply do not understand Christianity.
I do commend you, Nipper, on being the gentler Christian type. Would that more were so.
LittleNipper wrote:I do not blame the Jews. The Jew represents humanity. The Jews are the Chosen People (they still are). The woman through whom The Christ came was Jewish. The step father was Jewish. Jesus was raised Jewish. And all true Christians are grafted onto the root of Abraham.
The sin of Adam is why Jesus the Messiah had to be sacrificed. We are all related to Adam, through Noah. Jesus gave up His life --- no one took it from Him. People who blame the Jews simply do not understand Christianity.
I do commend you, Nipper, on being the gentler Christian type. Would that more were so.
Please do take time to have a talk with God. I would be very happy if you did. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Hey, if you wish, send me a private message. I don't bite ---- really! Thanks!
The Church I attend helps support Friends of Israel and Israel My Glory
As Jesus walked along, Jesus observed a man blind from birth.
His disciples asked Him, “Teacher, whose at fault— this man or his parents — to cause him to be born blind?”
Jesus answered, “His blindness is due neither to his sin nor to that of his parents; it happened so that God’s power might be viewed working in him.
As long as there's daylight, we must keep doing the work of the One who sent Me. The night is coming, when no one can work.
While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”
Having said this, He spat on the ground making some mud with the saliva. He put the mud on the man’s eyes, and told him, “Go, wash off in the Pool of Shiloach/Siloam!” (The name means “sent.”) So he went and washed and came away seeing.
His neighbors and those who previously had known him a bagger said, “Isn’t this the man who used to sit and beg?”
Some said, “Yes, he’s the one”; while others said, “No, but he kinda looks like him.” However, he himself said, “I’m the one.”
“How were your eyes opened?” they asked him.
He answered, “The man called Jesus made mud, put it on my eyes, and told me, ‘Go to Siloam and wash!’ So I went! And as soon as I had washed, I could see.”
They said to him, “Where is Jesus?” and he replied, “I no idea.”
They took the man who had been blind to the Pharisees.
Now the day on which Jesus had made the mud and opened his eyes was the Sabbath.
So the Pharisees asked him again how he had become able to see; and he told them, “He put mud on my eyes, then I washed, and now I can see.”
At this, some of the Pharisees said, “This man is not from God, because He doesn’t keep the Sabbath.” But others commented, “How could a man who is a sinner do such miracles like these?” And this divided them.
So once more they spoke to the blind man: “Since you’re the one whose eyes He healed, what do you say concerning Him?” He replied: “He's a prophet.”
The Judeans, however, were unwilling to believe that he had formerly been blind, but now could see, until they summoned the man’s parents.
They asked them, “Is this your son, who you say was born blind? How is it that now he can see?”
His parents answered, “We know that this is our son and that he was born blind;
but how it is that he can see presently, we have no idea; nor do we know who opened his eyes. Ask him — he’s old enough, he can speak for himself!”
His parents said this because they feared the Judeans, for the Judeans had already agreed that anyone who acknowledged Jesus as the Messiah would be excommunicated from the synagogue.
This is why his parents said, “He’s old enough, ask him.”
So again they called the man who had been blind; and they said to him, “Swear to God that you will tell the truth! We know that this man is a sinner.”
He answered, “Whether He’s a sinner or not I have no idea. One thing I do know: I once was blind but now I see.”
So they said to him, “What did He do to you? How did He heal your eyes?”
“I already told you,” he answered, “and you're not listening. Why do you want to hear it again? Maybe you too want to become His disciples?”
Then they criticized him. “You may be His diciple,” they said, “but we are Moses' disciples!
We know that God has spoken to Moses, but as for this fellow — we've no idea where he’s from!”
“What a weird thing,” the man answered, “that you don’t know where he’s from — considering that He opened my eyes!
We know that God doesn’t listen to unrepentant sinners; but if anyone considers God and does His will, God does listen to him.
In all history no one has ever heard of someone’s opening the eyes of a man born blind.
If this Man were not from God, He couldn’t do anything!”
“You sinful bastard!” they retorted, “Are you lecturing us?” And they threw him out.
Jesus heard that they had thrown the man out. He found him and said, “Do you trust in the Son of Man?”
“Sir,” he answered, “tell me who He is, so that I can trust in Him.”
Jesus responded, “You have seen him. In fact, He’s the one speaking with you now.”
“Lord, I trust!” he said, and he kneeled down in front of Jesus.
Jesus said, “It is to judge that I came into this world, so that those who do not see have a chance to, and those who do see might be blinded.”
Some of the Pharisees close by overheard this and responded, “So we’re blind too, are we?”
Jesus responded, “If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin. But since you still say, ‘We see,’ your guilt is obvious."
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1 And passing by, he saw a man blind from birth,
2 and his disciples asked him, saying, `Rabbi, who did sin, this one or his parents, that he should be born blind?'
3 Jesus answered, `Neither did this one sin nor his parents, but that the works of God may be manifested in him;
4 it behoveth me to be working the works of Him who sent me while it is day; night doth come, when no one is able to work: --
5 when I am in the world, I am a light of the world.'
6 These things saying, he spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and rubbed the clay on the eyes of the blind man, and said to him,
7 `Go away, wash at the pool of Siloam,' which is, interpreted, Sent. He went away, therefore, and did wash, and came seeing;
8 the neighbours, therefore, and those seeing him before, that he was blind, said, `Is not this he who is sitting and begging?'
9 others said -- `This is he;' and others -- `He is like to him;' he himself said, -- `I am [he].'
10 They said, therefore, to him, `How were thine eyes opened?'
11 he answered and said, `A man called Jesus made clay, and rubbed my eyes, and said to me, Go away to the pool of Siloam, and wash; and having gone away and having washed, I received sight;'
12 they said, therefore, to him, `Where is that one?' he saith, `I have not known.'
13 They bring him to the Pharisees who once [was] blind,
14 and it was a sabbath when Jesus made the clay, and opened his eyes.
15 Again, therefore, the Pharisees also were asking him how he received sight, and he said to them, `Clay he did put upon my eyes, and I did wash -- and I see.'
16 Of the Pharisees, therefore, certain said, `This man is not from God, because the sabbath he doth not keep;' others said, `How is a man -- a sinful one -- able to do such signs?' and there was a division among them.
17 They said to the blind man again, `Thou -- what dost thou say of him -- that he opened thine eyes?'
18 and he said -- `He is a prophet.' The Jews, therefore, did not believe concerning him that he was blind and did receive sight, till that they called the parents of him who received sight,
19 and they asked them, saying, `Is your son, of whom ye say that he was born blind? how then now doth he see?'
20 His parents answered them and said, `We have known that this is our son, and that he was born blind;
21 and how he now seeth, we have not known; or who opened his eyes, we have not known; himself is of age, ask him; he himself shall speak concerning himself.'
22 These things said his parents, because they were afraid of the Jews, for already had the Jews agreed together, that if any one may confess him -- Christ, he may be put out of the synagogue;
23 because of this his parents said -- `He is of age, ask him.'
24 They called, therefore, a second time the man who was blind, and they said to him, `Give glory to God, we have known that this man is a sinner;'
25 he answered, therefore, and said, `If he be a sinner -- I have not known, one thing I have known, that, being blind, now I see.'
26 And they said to him again, `What did he to thee? how did he open thine eyes?'
27 He answered them, `I told you already, and ye did not hear; why again do ye wish to hear? do ye also wish to become his disciples?'
28 They reviled him, therefore, and said, `Thou art his disciple, and we are Moses' disciples;
29 we have known that God hath spoken to Moses, but this one -- we have not known whence he is.'
30 The man answered and said to them, `Why, in this is a wonderful thing, that ye have not known whence he is, and he opened my eyes!
31 and we have known that God doth not hear sinners, but, if any one may be a worshipper of God, and may do His will, him He doth hear;
32 from the age it was not heard, that any one did open eyes of one who hath been born blind;
33 if this one were not from God, he were not able to do anything.'
34 They answered and said to him, `In sins thou wast born altogether, and thou dost teach us!' and they cast him forth without.
35 Jesus heard that they cast him forth without, and having found him, he said to him, `Dost thou believe in the Son of God?'
36 he answered and said, `Who is he, sir, that I may believe in him?'
37 And Jesus said to him, `Thou hast both seen him, and he who is speaking with thee is he;'
38 and he said, `I believe, sir,' and bowed before him.
39 And Jesus said, `For judgment I to this world did come, that those not seeing may see, and those seeing may become blind.'
40 And those of the Pharisees who were with him heard these things, and they said to him, `Are we also blind?'
41 Jesus said to them, `If ye were blind, ye were not having had sin, but now ye say -- We see, therefore doth your sin remain
“Absolutely! I tell you, the person who doesn’t enter the sheep-pen through the entrance, but climbs in some other way, is a thief and a robber.
But the one who goes in through the gate is the sheep’s own shepherd.
This one the gate-keeper allows to enter, and the sheep hear his voice. He calls his own sheep, everyone one by name, and leads them out.
Upon letting out all that are his own, he leads them; and the sheep follow him because they recognize his voice.
They never follow a stranger but will run away from, because strangers’ voices are unfamiliar to them.”
Jesus used this indirect manner of speaking with them, but they didn’t understand what he was explaining.
So Jesus said to them again, “Absolutely! I tell you that I am the gate for the sheep.
All those who have come before me have been thieves and robbers, but the sheep didn’t listen to them.
I'm the Gate; if someone enters through Me, he will be safe and will go in and out and find pasture.
The thief comes only in order to steal, kill and destroy; I have come so that they may have life, life to the uttermost.
“I'm the Good Shepherd. The Good Shepherd sacrifices down His life for the sheep.
The hired hand, since he isn’t a shepherd and the sheep aren’t his own, sees the wolf coming, abandons the sheep and runs. Then the wolf drags them off and scatters them.
The hired worker reacts this way because that’s all he is, a hired worker; so it doesn’t matter to him what happens to the sheep.
I am the Good Shepherd; I know My Own, and My Own know Me —
just as the Father knows Me, and I know the Father — and I lay down my life on behalf of the sheep.
Also I have other sheep which are not from this pen; I need to gather them, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock with one shepherd.
“This is why the Father loves me: because I lay down my life — in order to resurrect it again!
No one takes it away from Me; quite the contrary, I lay it down of My Own free will. I have the power to lay it down, and I have the power to resurrect it again. This is what My Father commanded me to do.”
Again there was a split among the Judeans because of what He said.
Many of them said, “He has a demon!” and “He’s crazy! Why do you listen to Him?”
Others said, “These are not the deeds of a man who is demon possessed — how can a demon open blind people’s eyes?”
Then came Hanukkah in Jerusalem. It was winter,
and Jesus was walking around inside the Temple area, in Solomon's Colonnade.
So the Judeans surrounded Jesus and said to Him, “How much longer are you going to keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us publicly!”
Jesus answered them, “I have already told you, and you don’t trust Me. The works I do in My Father’s name testify on My behalf,
but the reason you don’t trust is that you are not included with my sheep.
My sheep listen to my voice, I recognize them, they follow Me,
and I bestow on them eternal life. They will absolutely never be destroyed, and no one will snatch them from My hands.
My Father, who gave them to Me, is greater than all; and no one can snatch them from the Father’s hands.
I and the Father are one.”
Once again the Judeans picked up rocks preparing to stone Him.
Jesus answered them, “You have seen Me do many good deeds that reflect the Father’s power; for which one of these are you stoning Me?”
The Judeans replied, “We are not stoning you for doing good deeds, but for blasphemy — because you, who are only a man, are making yourself out to be God.”
Jesus answered them, “Isn’t it written in your Law, ‘I have said, “You people are Elohim’ ”?
If He labeled ‘elohim’ the people to whom the word of God was addressed (and the scripture cannot be broken),
then are you informing the One whom the Father set apart as holy and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ just because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?
“If I am not performing accomplishments that reflect my Father’s power, don’t trust Me.
But if I Am, then, even if you don’t trust me, trust the deeds; so that you may understand once and for all that the Father is united with Me, and I'm united with the Father.”
Again they tried to arrest Jesus, but He slipped out of their hands.
He went off again beyond the Jordan, where John (the Baptist) had been immersing at first, and stayed there.
Many people came to Him and said, “John performed no miracles, but everything John said about this man was true.”
And many people present placed their trust in Him.
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1 `Verily, verily, I say to you, He who is not entering through the door to the fold of the sheep, but is going up from another side, that one is a thief and a robber;
2 and he who is entering through the door is shepherd of the sheep;
3 to this one the doorkeeper doth open, and the sheep hear his voice, and his own sheep he doth call by name, and doth lead them forth;
4 and when his own sheep he may put forth, before them he goeth on, and the sheep follow him, because they have known his voice;
5 and a stranger they will not follow, but will flee from him, because they have not known the voice of strangers.'
6 This similitude spake Jesus to them, and they knew not what the things were that he was speaking to them;
7 Jesus said therefore again to them, `Verily, verily, I say to you -- I am the door of the sheep;
8 all, as many as came before me, are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them;
9 I am the door, through me if any one may come in, he shall be saved, and he shall come in, and go out, and find pasture.
10 `The thief doth not come, except that he may steal, and kill, and destroy; I came that they may have life, and may have [it] abundantly.
11 `I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd his life layeth down for the sheep;
12 and the hireling, and not being a shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, doth behold the wolf coming, and doth leave the sheep, and doth flee; and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep;
13 and the hireling doth flee because he is an hireling, and is not caring for the sheep.
14 `I am the good shepherd, and I know my [sheep], and am known by mine,
15 according as the Father doth know me, and I know the Father, and my life I lay down for the sheep,
16 and other sheep I have that are not of this fold, these also it behoveth me to bring, and my voice they will hear, and there shall become one flock -- one shepherd.
17 `Because of this doth the Father love me, because I lay down my life, that again I may take it;
18 no one doth take it from me, but I lay it down of myself; authority I have to lay it down, and authority I have again to take it; this command I received from my Father.'
19 Therefore, again, there came a division among the Jews, because of these words,
20 and many of them said, `He hath a demon, and is mad, why do ye hear him?'
21 others said, `These sayings are not those of a demoniac; is a demon able blind men's eyes to open?'
22 And the dedication in Jerusalem came, and it was winter,
23 and Jesus was walking in the temple, in the porch of Solomon,
24 the Jews, therefore, came round about him, and said to him, `Till when our soul dost thou hold in suspense? if thou art the Christ, tell us freely.'
25 Jesus answered them, `I told you, and ye do not believe; the works that I do in the name of my Father, these testify concerning me;
26 but ye do not believe, for ye are not of my sheep,
27 according as I said to you: My sheep my voice do hear, and I know them, and they follow me,
28 and life age-during I give to them, and they shall not perish -- to the age, and no one shall pluck them out of my hand;
29 my Father, who hath given to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to pluck out of the hand of my Father;
30 I and the Father are one.'
31 Therefore, again, did the Jews take up stones that they may stone him;
32 Jesus answered them, `Many good works did I shew you from my Father; because of which work of them do ye stone me?'
33 The Jews answered him, saying, `For a good work we do not stone thee, but for evil speaking, and because thou, being a man, dost make thyself God.'
34 Jesus answered them, `Is it not having been written in your law: I said, ye are gods?
35 if them he did call gods unto whom the word of God came, (and the Writing is not able to be broken,)
36 of him whom the Father did sanctify, and send to the world, do ye say -- Thou speakest evil, because I said, Son of God I am?
37 if I do not the works of my Father, do not believe me;
38 and if I do, even if me ye may not believe, the works believe, that ye may know and may believe that in me [is] the Father, and I in Him.'
39 Therefore were they seeking again to seize him, and he went forth out of their hand,
40 and went away again to the other side of the Jordan, to the place where John was at first baptizing, and remained there,
41 and many came unto him, and said -- `John, indeed, did no sign, and all things, as many as John said about this one were true;'
42 and many did believe in him there.
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Also I have other sheep which are not from this pen; I need to gather them, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock with one shepherd.
16 and other sheep I have that are not of this fold, these also it behoveth me to bring, and my voice they will hear, and there shall become one flock -- one shepherd.
John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. (KJV)
John 10:16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. (NKJV)
John 10:16 I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd. (NASB)
Some Mormons deny the Christian interpretation by insisting that Jesus meant these "other sheep" would actually hear His literal voice. Since Jesus did not specifically address the Gentile people, they argue that He must have been speaking of someone else. On the surface this might seem like a plausible argument. The problem lies in the fact that the Bible often uses this type of language to portray the idea that a thought or message could be transmitted by some other means than by the actual speaking of a person. For instance, time and time again the children of Israel were commanded to listen to "the voice" of the Lord (e.g., Deuteronomy 27:10; 1 Samuel 12:15; 2 Kings 18:12). Despite this warning, rarely do we find the children of Israel ever actually hearing the voice of the Lord Himself. Instead, God used Moses and other prophets as His mouthpiece.
In reality, the "other sheep" Jesus mentions are the righteous Gentiles, who did not belong to the "fold" of God’s chosen people, Israel, but who would respond to the gospel when preached to them. While Christ’s earthly ministry served the Jewish people almost exclusively, his great commission to the apostles before his ascension sent them into all the world to preach, baptize and thus unite his believers in one fold (Mt 27:19). Because "he that heareth you heareth me" (Lk 10:16), to hear the gospel from the lips of his disciples is to hear Jesus himself.
Jesus answered them, “Isn’t it written in your Law, ‘I have said, “You people are Elohim’ ”?
34 Jesus answered them, `Is it not having been written in your law: I said, ye are gods?
John 10:34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods”’?[c] (NKJV)
John 10:34 Jesus answered them, “Has it not been written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? (NASB)
Jesus was quoting from Psalm 82:6.
6 I said, “You are gods,[b] And all of you are children of the Most High. (NKJV)
b. Psalm 82:6 Hebrew elohim, mighty ones; that is, the judges
No doubt many Latter-day Saints will look upon this interpretation with suspicion. Should that be the case, one of Mormonism's most respected scholars, Apostle James Talmage, should be quoted. In his book "Jesus The Christ," Talmage agreed that Jesus was referring to divinely appointed judges when he wrote, "Divinely Appointed Judges Called 'gods.' In Psalm 82:6, judges invested by divine appointment are called 'gods.' To this the Savior referred in His reply to the Jews in Solomon's Porch. Judges so authorized officiated as the representatives of God and are honored by the exalted title 'gods'" (p. 465).
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