Bible verse by verse

[_Maksutov]

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/1 ... olar-says/

11:47 AM ET
Half of New Testament forged, Bible scholar says
By John Blake, CNN

(CNN) - A frail man sits in chains inside a dank, cold prison cell. He has escaped death before but now realizes that his execution is drawing near.

“I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come,” the man –the Apostle Paul - says in the Bible's 2 Timothy. “I have fought the good fight. I have finished the race. I have kept the faith.”

The passage is one of the most dramatic scenes in the New Testament. Paul, the most prolific New Testament author, is saying goodbye from a Roman prison cell before being beheaded. His goodbye veers from loneliness to defiance and, finally, to joy.

There’s one just one problem - Paul didn’t write those words. In fact, virtually half the New Testament was written by impostors taking on the names of apostles like Paul. At least according to Bart D. Ehrman, a renowned biblical scholar, who makes the charges in his new book “Forged.”

“There were a lot of people in the ancient world who thought that lying could serve a greater good,” says Ehrman, an expert on ancient biblical manuscripts.In “Forged,” Ehrman claims that:

* At least 11 of the 27 New Testament books are forgeries.

* The New Testament books attributed to Jesus’ disciples could not have been written by them because they were illiterate.

* Many of the New Testament’s forgeries were manufactured by early Christian leaders trying to settle theological feuds.

Were Jesus’ disciples ‘illiterate peasants?'

Ehrman’s book, like many of his previous ones, is already generating backlash. Ben Witherington, a New Testament scholar, has written a lengthy online critique of “Forged.”

Witherington calls Ehrman’s book “Gullible Travels, for it reveals over and over again the willingness of people to believe even outrageous things.”

All of the New Testament books, with the exception of 2 Peter, can be traced back to a very small group of literate Christians, some of whom were eyewitnesses to the lives of Jesus and Paul, Witherington says.

“Forged” also underestimates the considerable role scribes played in transcribing documents during the earliest days of Christianity, Witherington says.

Even if Paul didn’t write the second book of Timothy, he would have dictated it to a scribe for posterity, he says.

“When you have a trusted colleague or co-worker who knows the mind of Paul, there was no problem in antiquity with that trusted co-worker hearing Paul’s last testimony in prison,” he says. “This is not forgery. This is the last will and testament of someone who is dying.”

Ehrman doesn’t confine his critique to Paul’s letters. He challenges the authenticity of the Gospels of Matthew, Mark and John. He says that none were written by Jesus' disciplies, citing two reasons.

He says none of the earliest gospels revealed the names of its authors, and that their current names were later added by scribes.

Ehrman also says that two of Jesus’ original disciples, John and Peter, could not have written the books attributed to them in the New Testament because they were illiterate.

“According to Acts 4:13, both Peter and his companion John, also a fisherman, were agrammatoi, a Greek word that literally means ‘unlettered,’ that is, ‘illiterate,’ ’’ he writes.

Will the real Paul stand up?

Ehrman reserves most of his scrutiny for the writings of Paul, which make up the bulk of the New Testament. He says that only about half of the New Testament letters attributed to Paul - 7 of 13 - were actually written by him.

Paul's remaining books are forgeries, Ehrman says. His proof: inconsistencies in the language, choice of words and blatant contradiction in doctrine.

For example, Ehrman says the book of Ephesians doesn’t conform to Paul’s distinctive Greek writing style. He says Paul wrote in short, pointed sentences while Ephesians is full of long Greek sentences (the opening sentence of thanksgiving in Ephesians unfurls a sentence that winds through 12 verses, he says).

“There’s nothing wrong with extremely long sentences in Greek; it just isn’t the way Paul wrote. It’s like Mark Twain and William Faulkner; they both wrote correctly, but you would never mistake the one for the other,” Ehrman writes.

The scholar also points to a famous passage in 1 Corinthians in which Paul is recorded as saying that women should be “silent” in churches and that “if they wish to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home.”

Only three chapters earlier, in the same book, Paul is urging women who pray and prophesy in church to cover their heads with veils, Ehrman says: “If they were allowed to speak in chapter 11, how could they be told not to speak in chapter 14?”

Why people forged

Forgers often did their work because they were trying to settle early church disputes, Ehrman says. The early church was embroiled in conflict - people argued over the treatment of women, leadership and relations between masters and slaves, he says.

“There was competition among different groups of Christians about what to believe and each of these groups wanted to have authority to back up their views,” he says. “If you were a nobody, you wouldn’t sign your own name to your treatise. You would sign Peter or John.”

So people claiming to be Peter and John - and all sorts of people who claimed to know Jesus - went into publishing overdrive. Ehrman estimates that there were about 100 forgeries created in the name of Jesus’ inner-circle during the first four centuries of the church.

Witherington concedes that fabrications and forgeries floated around the earliest Christian communities.

But he doesn’t accept the notion that Peter, for example, could not have been literate because he was a fisherman.

“Fisherman had to do business. Guess what? That involves writing, contracts and signed documents,” he said in an interview.

Witherington says people will gravitate toward Ehrman’s work because the media loves sensationalism.

“We live in a Jesus-haunted culture that’s biblically illiterate,” he says. “Almost anything can pass for historical information… A book liked ‘Forged’ can unsettle people who have no third or fourth opinions to draw upon.”

Ehrman, of course, has another point of view.

“Forged” will help people accept something that it took him a long time to accept, says the author, a former fundamentalist who is now an agnostic.

The New Testament wasn’t written by the finger of God, he says - it has human fingerprints all over its pages.

“I’m not saying people should throw it out or it’s not theologically fruitful,” Ehrman says. “I’m saying that by realizing it contains so many forgeries, it shows that it’s a very human book, down to the fact that some authors lied about who they were.”

[_spotlight]

There is nothing in the Bible that states that the sun goes around the earth.

Gee I wonder why the church gave Galileo grief then? Or why the priests declared his telescope was demon possessed?

LittlestNipper doesn't see the absurdity of ancient goat herders having views of the operation of the solar system compatible with our modern understanding. Of course it ends where Nipper's understanding of modern astronomy ends. His grand children, following in his foot steps, will be claiming there is nothing in the Bible that contradicts evolution when that fact finally works its way into the consciousness of the masses the way Galileo's discoveries did.

Enoch, the 7th from Adam, prophesied about these men...
But this does not mean the Book of Enoch is inspired by God

I see. Thanks for clearing that up for me. Can we at least do that for the rest of the Bible then? We could cut out all of the prophecies and trim the rest away as uninspired filler. That would save you much wasted time in your cut and paste mission. by the way, was your cut and paste mission inspired by god? Does god have his finger in your noodle? I mean there doesn't seem to be any mention of it in the Bible. Just curious.

Jude’s quote is not the only quote in the Bible from a non-biblical source.

What about the mention of an epistle to the Corinthians prior to what is called first Corinthians in 1 Cor 5:9? Was it uninspired or inspired? Or perhaps just that portion of the earlier epistle that was quoted was inspired? And was the epistle to the church at Laodicea mentioned in Col 4:16 inspired? If it was inspired then the Bible is not complete I guess. If it was uninspired then what does that tell us about the epistles which are in the Bible as currently compiled? Are they likewise uninspired?

But if you are correct that prophesies are inspired but not the rest then what happened to the prophecy of Ahijah mentioned in 2 Chr. 9:29? Or the visions of Iddo the seer mentioned in 2 Chr. 9:29; 12:15; 13:22?

I guess these other books mentioned within the current compilation of the Bible never were considered scripture either. The book of Jasher Josh. 10:13; 2 Sam. 1:18, the book of Samuel the seer 1 Chr. 29:29, the book of Gad the seer 1 Chr. 29:29, the book of Nathan the prophet 1 Chr. 29:29; 2 Chr. 9:29, the book of Shemaiah 2 Chr. 12:15, the book of Jehu 2 Chr. 20:34, the sayings of the seers 2 Chr. 33:19, the book of the acts of Solomon 1 Kgs. 11:41, the book of the Wars of the Lord Num. 21:14?

And where is it in the old testament that Matthew is quoting from precisely when he refers to a prophecy that Jesus would be a Nazarene 2:23? It seems the Bible as presently constituted is not complete or that what was once considered Biblical no longer is so considered? This nebulous collection you refer to as if it is a solidly defined tome seems to be anything but.

It is interesting to note that no scholars believe the Book of Enoch to have truly been written by the Enoch of the Bible.

There is abundant proof that Christ approved of the Book of Enoch. Over a hundred phrases in the New Testament find precedents in the Book of Enoch. Another remarkable bit of evidence for the early Christians’ acceptance of the Book of Enoch was for many years buried under the King James Bible’s mistranslation of Luke 9:35, describing the transfiguration of Christ: “And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, ‘This is my beloved Son: hear him.” Apparently the translator here wished to make this verse agree with a similar verse in Matthew and Mark. But Luke’s verse in the original Greek reads: “This is my Son, the Elect One (from the Greek ho eklelegmenos, lit., “the elect one”): hear him. (Old Testament listen to him).

The “Elect One” is a most significant term (found fourteen times) in the Book of Enoch. If the book was indeed known to the apostles of Christ, with its abundant descriptions of the Elect One who should “sit upon the throne of glory” and the Elect One who should “dwell in the midst of them,” then the great scriptural authenticity is accorded to the Book of Enoch when the “voice out of the cloud” tells the apostles, “This is my Son, the Elect One” – the one promised in the Book of Enoch.

Despite its unknown origins, Christians once accepted the words of this Book of Enoch as authentic scripture, especially the part about the fallen angels and their prophesied judgment. In fact, many of the key concepts used by Jesus Christ himself seem directly connected to terms and ideas in the Book of Enoch. Thus, it is hard to avoid the conclusion that Jesus had not only studied the book, but also respected it highly enough to adopt and elaborate on its specific descriptions of the coming kingdom and its theme of inevitable judgment descending upon “the wicked”.

The Book of Enoch was extant centuries before the birth of Christ and yet is considered by many to be more Christian in its theology than Jewish. It was considered scripture by many early Christians. The earliest literature of the so-called “Church Fathers” is filled with references to this mysterious book.

Second and Third Century “Church Fathers” like Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Origin and Clement of Alexandria all make use of the Book of Enoch. Tertullian (160-230 C.E) even called the Book of Enoch “Holy Scripture”.

Many of the early church fathers also supported the Enochian writings. Justin Martyr ascribed all evil to demons whom he alleged to be the offspring of the angels who fell through lust for women — directly referencing the Enochian writings.

Athenagoras, writing in his work called Legatio in about 170 A.D., regards Enoch as a true prophet. He describes the angels which “violated both their own nature and their office.” In his writings, he goes into detail about the nature of fallen angels and the cause of their fall, which comes directly from the Enochian writings.

Many other church fathers: Tatian (110-172); Irenaeus, Bishop of Lyons (115-185); Clement of Alexandria (150-220); Tertullian (160-230); Origen (186-255); Lactantius (260-330); in addition to: Methodius of Philippi, Minucius Felix, Commodianus, and Ambrose of Milanalso - also approved of and supported the Enochian writings.

— The Book of the Secrets of Enoch by R.H. Charles

The Aramaic Book of Enoch very considerably influenced the idiom of the New Testament and patristic literature, more so in fact than any other writing
– Norman Golb, Who Wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls?, (1995) p. 366

The materials in I Enoch range in date from 200 B.C.E. to 50 C.E. I Enoch contributes much to intertestamental views of angels, heaven, judgment, resurrection, and the Messiah. This book has left its stamp upon many of the New Testament writers, especially the author of Revelation.
– Craig A. Evans, Noncanonical Writings and New Testament Interpretation, (1992) p. 23

link

Yes indeed the sun stood still in the sky. There is nothing in the Bible that stipulates how GOD accomplished this feat; however, we know that it did happen.

We do? Oh yes that's right, because it says it happened right there in the Bible.

You either believe it happened or you don't.

If only the rest of reality behaved this way. Do you wish to flap your arms and fly. You only have to believe!

I see no reason for GOD not to be capable of doing exactly what HE chooses to do or how.

I believe this about you.

For you to insist it is not possible is to call GOD a fraud.

For you to insist that Santa cannot deliver billions of gifts in a single night is to call SANTA a fraud! You are heartless and cruel to children.

And I would never want to go down that road with anyone.

Not even with flat earthers? Why, family's off limits?

[_LittleNipper]

There is nothing in the Bible that states that the sun goes around the earth.

Gee I wonder why the church gave Galileo grief then? Or why the priests declared his telescope was demon possessed?

LittlestNipper doesn't see the absurdity of ancient goat herders having views of the operation of the solar system compatible with our modern understanding. Of course it ends where Nipper's understanding of modern astronomy ends. His grand children, following in his foot steps, will be claiming there is nothing in the Bible that contradicts evolution when that fact finally works its way into the consciousness of the masses the way Galileo's discoveries did.

Enoch, the 7th from Adam, prophesied about these men...
But this does not mean the Book of Enoch is inspired by God

I see. Thanks for clearing that up for me. Can we at least do that for the rest of the Bible then? We could cut out all of the prophecies and trim the rest away as uninspired filler. That would save you much wasted time in your cut and paste mission. by the way, was your cut and paste mission inspired by god? Does god have his finger in your noodle? I mean there doesn't seem to be any mention of it in the Bible. Just curious.

Jude’s quote is not the only quote in the Bible from a non-biblical source.

What about the mention of an epistle to the Corinthians prior to what is called first Corinthians in 1 Cor 5:9? Was it uninspired or inspired? Or perhaps just that portion of the earlier epistle that was quoted was inspired? And was the epistle to the church at Laodicea mentioned in Col 4:16 inspired? If it was inspired then the Bible is not complete I guess. If it was uninspired then what does that tell us about the epistles which are in the Bible as currently compiled? Are they likewise uninspired?

But if you are correct that prophesies are inspired but not the rest then what happened to the prophecy of Ahijah mentioned in 2 Chr. 9:29? Or the visions of Iddo the seer mentioned in 2 Chr. 9:29; 12:15; 13:22?

I guess these other books mentioned within the current compilation of the Bible never were considered scripture either. The book of Jasher Josh. 10:13; 2 Sam. 1:18, the book of Samuel the seer 1 Chr. 29:29, the book of Gad the seer 1 Chr. 29:29, the book of Nathan the prophet 1 Chr. 29:29; 2 Chr. 9:29, the book of Shemaiah 2 Chr. 12:15, the book of Jehu 2 Chr. 20:34, the sayings of the seers 2 Chr. 33:19, the book of the acts of Solomon 1 Kgs. 11:41, the book of the Wars of the Lord Num. 21:14?

And where is it in the old testament that Matthew is quoting from precisely when he refers to a prophecy that Jesus would be a Nazarene 2:23? It seems the Bible as presently constituted is not complete or that what was once considered Biblical no longer is so considered? This nebulous collection you refer to as if it is a solidly defined tome seems to be anything but.

It is interesting to note that no scholars believe the Book of Enoch to have truly been written by the Enoch of the Bible.

There is abundant proof that Christ approved of the Book of Enoch. Over a hundred phrases in the New Testament find precedents in the Book of Enoch. Another remarkable bit of evidence for the early Christians’ acceptance of the Book of Enoch was for many years buried under the King James Bible’s mistranslation of Luke 9:35, describing the transfiguration of Christ: “And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, ‘This is my beloved Son: hear him.” Apparently the translator here wished to make this verse agree with a similar verse in Matthew and Mark. But Luke’s verse in the original Greek reads: “This is my Son, the Elect One (from the Greek ho eklelegmenos, lit., “the elect one”): hear him. (Old Testament listen to him).

The “Elect One” is a most significant term (found fourteen times) in the Book of Enoch. If the book was indeed known to the apostles of Christ, with its abundant descriptions of the Elect One who should “sit upon the throne of glory” and the Elect One who should “dwell in the midst of them,” then the great scriptural authenticity is accorded to the Book of Enoch when the “voice out of the cloud” tells the apostles, “This is my Son, the Elect One” – the one promised in the Book of Enoch.

Despite its unknown origins, Christians once accepted the words of this Book of Enoch as authentic scripture, especially the part about the fallen angels and their prophesied judgment. In fact, many of the key concepts used by Jesus Christ himself seem directly connected to terms and ideas in the Book of Enoch. Thus, it is hard to avoid the conclusion that Jesus had not only studied the book, but also respected it highly enough to adopt and elaborate on its specific descriptions of the coming kingdom and its theme of inevitable judgment descending upon “the wicked”.

The Book of Enoch was extant centuries before the birth of Christ and yet is considered by many to be more Christian in its theology than Jewish. It was considered scripture by many early Christians. The earliest literature of the so-called “Church Fathers” is filled with references to this mysterious book.

Second and Third Century “Church Fathers” like Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Origin and Clement of Alexandria all make use of the Book of Enoch. Tertullian (160-230 C.E) even called the Book of Enoch “Holy Scripture”.

Many of the early church fathers also supported the Enochian writings. Justin Martyr ascribed all evil to demons whom he alleged to be the offspring of the angels who fell through lust for women — directly referencing the Enochian writings.

Athenagoras, writing in his work called Legatio in about 170 A.D., regards Enoch as a true prophet. He describes the angels which “violated both their own nature and their office.” In his writings, he goes into detail about the nature of fallen angels and the cause of their fall, which comes directly from the Enochian writings.

Many other church fathers: Tatian (110-172); Irenaeus, Bishop of Lyons (115-185); Clement of Alexandria (150-220); Tertullian (160-230); Origen (186-255); Lactantius (260-330); in addition to: Methodius of Philippi, Minucius Felix, Commodianus, and Ambrose of Milanalso - also approved of and supported the Enochian writings.

— The Book of the Secrets of Enoch by R.H. Charles

The Aramaic Book of Enoch very considerably influenced the idiom of the New Testament and patristic literature, more so in fact than any other writing
– Norman Golb, Who Wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls?, (1995) p. 366

The materials in I Enoch range in date from 200 B.C.E. to 50 C.E. I Enoch contributes much to intertestamental views of angels, heaven, judgment, resurrection, and the Messiah. This book has left its stamp upon many of the New Testament writers, especially the author of Revelation.
– Craig A. Evans, Noncanonical Writings and New Testament Interpretation, (1992) p. 23

link

Yes indeed the sun stood still in the sky. There is nothing in the Bible that stipulates how GOD accomplished this feat; however, we know that it did happen.

We do? Oh yes that's right, because it says it happened right there in the Bible.

You either believe it happened or you don't.

If only the rest of reality behaved this way. Do you wish to flap your arms and fly. You only have to believe!

I see no reason for GOD not to be capable of doing exactly what HE chooses to do or how.

I believe this about you.

For you to insist it is not possible is to call GOD a fraud.

For you to insist that Santa cannot deliver billions of gifts in a single night is to call SANTA a fraud! You are heartless and cruel to children.

And I would never want to go down that road with anyone.

Not even with flat earthers? Why, family's off limits?

Except for Saint Nicolas (who was a real person who apparently did spread some Christmas cheer, there never was a Santa Claus and no mention of Santa Claus in the Bible. The fact is the Bible is about Christ/Messiah. The Gospel message Jesus commanded to be spread had nothing to do with mere history books for historical sake nor stores for the sake of being informative nor history nor poetry for the sake of poetry. The entire motive of the Holy Scriptures is an expression of GOD's message of SALVATION! And that is all that eternally matters. Once saved always saved by GOD alone through faith in GOD. And frankly, your motivation is not toward discovering faith but discouraging it. And I believe this is likely the result of eschewed Mormon doctrine that has little to do with a personal relationship with a loving GOD, but a desire to discover hidden knowledge. And frankly, that is what paganism is all about!

[Guest]

Acts 6:1-15

Around this time, when the numbers of disciples continued to grow, the Greek-speaking Jews began complaining against those who spoke Hebrew that their widows were being ignored in the daily distribution.

So the 12 called a general meeting of the disciples and said, “It isn’t appropriate that we should neglect the Word of God in order to wait upon tables.

Brothers, choose 7 men from among yourselves who are known to be full of the Spirit and wisdom. We will appoint them to be in charge of this important matter,

but we ourselves will give our full attention to praying and to serving the Word.”

What they said was agreeable to the whole gathering. They chose Stephen, a man full of faith and possessing the Holy Spirit, Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and
Nicolaus, a proselyte of Antioch.

They presented these men to the apostles, who prayed and laid their hands on them.

So the word of God continued to spread. The number of disciples in Jerusalem increased quickly, and a large crowd of priests were becoming obedient to the faith.

Now Stephen, full of grace and power, performed great miracles and signs among the people.

But opposition arose from members of the Synagogue of the Freed Slaves (as it was called), composed of Cyrenians, Alexandrians and people from Cilicia and the province of Asia. They argued with Stephen,

but they could not stand up against his wisdom or the Spirit by which he spoke.

So they secretly persuaded some men to allege, “We heard him speaking blasphemously against Moses and against God.”

They riled the citizenry, as well as the elders and the teachers of the law; so they came and arrested him and led him before the Sanhedrin.

There they established false witnesses who said, “This man never stops speaking against this holy place and against the Law;

for we have heard him say that Jesus from Nazareth will destroy this edifice and will change the customs Moses handed down to us.”

Everyone sitting in the Sanhedrin stared at Stephen and saw that his face looked angelic.

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

1 And in these days, the disciples multiplying, there came a murmuring of the Hellenists at the Hebrews, because their widows were being overlooked in the daily ministration,

2 and the twelve, having called near the multitude of the disciples, said, `It is not pleasing that we, having left the word of God, do minister at tables;

3 look out, therefore, brethren, seven men of you who are well testified of, full of the Holy Spirit and wisdom, whom we may set over this necessity,

4 and we to prayer, and to the ministration of the word, will give ourselves continually.'

5 And the thing was pleasing before all the multitude, and they did choose Stephen, a man full of faith and the Holy Spirit, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and
Nicolaus, a proselyte of Antioch,

6 whom they did set before the apostles, and they, having prayed, laid on them [their] hands.

7 And the word of God did increase, and the number of the disciples did multiply in Jerusalem exceedingly; a great multitude also of the priests were obedient to the faith.

8 And Stephen, full of faith and power, was doing great wonders and signs among the people,

9 and there arose certain of those of the synagogue, called of the Libertines, and Cyrenians, and Alexandrians, and of those from Cilicia, and Asia, disputing with Stephen,

10 and they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit with which he was speaking;

11 then they suborned men, saying -- `We have heard him speaking evil sayings in regard to Moses and God.'

12 They did stir up also the people, and the elders, and the scribes, and having come upon [him], they caught him, and brought [him] to the sanhedrim;

13 they set up also false witnesses, saying, `This one doth not cease to speak evil sayings against this holy place and the law,

14 for we have heard him saying, That this Jesus the Nazarean shall overthrow this place, and shall change the customs that Moses delivered to us;'

15 and gazing at him, all those sitting in the sanhedrim saw his face as it were the face of a messenger.

[_Maksutov]

And frankly, your motivation is not toward discovering faith but discouraging it. And I believe this is likely the result of eschewed Mormon doctrine that has little to do with a personal relationship with a loving GOD, but a desire to discover hidden knowledge. And frankly, that is what paganism is all about!

[_spotlight]

Well LittleNipper if I discourage faith it's because I see what it's done to people like you. I can scarcely imagine where the world would be if everyone were as scientifically illiterate as yourself. Thankfully there are some adults in the world. Oh that's right, go ahead and trash this world, your destiny lies elsewhere. Hurry along then.

[_LittleNipper]

Well LittleNipper if I discourage faith it's because I see what it's done to people like you. I can scarcely imagine where the world would be if everyone were as scientifically illiterate as yourself. Thankfully there are some adults in the world. Oh that's right, go ahead and trash this world, your destiny lies elsewhere. Hurry along then.

I'm sorry. Do you have a problem with Billy Graham--- or is just that the "Mrs Clinton" type is more to your standards? I see what science devoid of spirituality has done to societies. The Great World War, the collapse of Germany and the rise of Nazism were regarded by Fundamentalist Christians at that time as a direct result of modernist thinking invading the Christian denominations throughout much of Europe and Germany in particular. The fall of Russia to Communism was not the result of Christian Devotion but Satanic influence of a hedonistic monk who spiritually bankrupted the monarchy with paganism and became himself the focus of worship and not Christ nor the Word.

I have seen what non-biblical faith has done to people. They have faith in "state" churches/values, or devotion to scientific opinion devoid of any spiritual foundation. They place faith in political affiliation and institutions without seeking Biblical validation of views or opinions being embraced or disseminated. They quickly become insensitive and hedonistic. Who would have ever thought that "gay" marriage would be considered anything else but pretentious? Who would have imagined 50 years ago that the renewed rise of anti-semitism toward Jews would also see an attack upon Christians simply due to their Biblical responses? You have seen Mormons lose their faith in Mormonism due to a slippery non-biblical foundation entrenched in Prophet worship and an over importance placed upon the "Family" above everything else ---- including the very Word of GOD.

[_LittleNipper]

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/13/half-of-new-testament-forged-bible-scholar-says/

11:47 AM ET
Half of New Testament forged, Bible scholar says
By John Blake, CNN

(CNN) - A frail man sits in chains inside a dank, cold prison cell. He has escaped death before but now realizes that his execution is drawing near.

“I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come,” the man –the Apostle Paul - says in the Bible's 2 Timothy. “I have fought the good fight. I have finished the race. I have kept the faith.”

The passage is one of the most dramatic scenes in the New Testament. Paul, the most prolific New Testament author, is saying goodbye from a Roman prison cell before being beheaded. His goodbye veers from loneliness to defiance and, finally, to joy.

There’s one just one problem - Paul didn’t write those words. In fact, virtually half the New Testament was written by impostors taking on the names of apostles like Paul. At least according to Bart D. Ehrman, a renowned biblical scholar, who makes the charges in his new book “Forged.”

“There were a lot of people in the ancient world who thought that lying could serve a greater good,” says Ehrman, an expert on ancient biblical manuscripts.In “Forged,” Ehrman claims that:

* At least 11 of the 27 New Testament books are forgeries.

* The New Testament books attributed to Jesus’ disciples could not have been written by them because they were illiterate.

* Many of the New Testament’s forgeries were manufactured by early Christian leaders trying to settle theological feuds.

Were Jesus’ disciples ‘illiterate peasants?'

Ehrman’s book, like many of his previous ones, is already generating backlash. Ben Witherington, a New Testament scholar, has written a lengthy online critique of “Forged.”

Witherington calls Ehrman’s book “Gullible Travels, for it reveals over and over again the willingness of people to believe even outrageous things.”

All of the New Testament books, with the exception of 2 Peter, can be traced back to a very small group of literate Christians, some of whom were eyewitnesses to the lives of Jesus and Paul, Witherington says.

“Forged” also underestimates the considerable role scribes played in transcribing documents during the earliest days of Christianity, Witherington says.

Even if Paul didn’t write the second book of Timothy, he would have dictated it to a scribe for posterity, he says.

“When you have a trusted colleague or co-worker who knows the mind of Paul, there was no problem in antiquity with that trusted co-worker hearing Paul’s last testimony in prison,” he says. “This is not forgery. This is the last will and testament of someone who is dying.”

Ehrman doesn’t confine his critique to Paul’s letters. He challenges the authenticity of the Gospels of Matthew, Mark and John. He says that none were written by Jesus' disciplies, citing two reasons.

He says none of the earliest gospels revealed the names of its authors, and that their current names were later added by scribes.

Ehrman also says that two of Jesus’ original disciples, John and Peter, could not have written the books attributed to them in the New Testament because they were illiterate.

“According to Acts 4:13, both Peter and his companion John, also a fisherman, were agrammatoi, a Greek word that literally means ‘unlettered,’ that is, ‘illiterate,’ ’’ he writes.

Will the real Paul stand up?

Ehrman reserves most of his scrutiny for the writings of Paul, which make up the bulk of the New Testament. He says that only about half of the New Testament letters attributed to Paul - 7 of 13 - were actually written by him.

Paul's remaining books are forgeries, Ehrman says. His proof: inconsistencies in the language, choice of words and blatant contradiction in doctrine.

For example, Ehrman says the book of Ephesians doesn’t conform to Paul’s distinctive Greek writing style. He says Paul wrote in short, pointed sentences while Ephesians is full of long Greek sentences (the opening sentence of thanksgiving in Ephesians unfurls a sentence that winds through 12 verses, he says).

“There’s nothing wrong with extremely long sentences in Greek; it just isn’t the way Paul wrote. It’s like Mark Twain and William Faulkner; they both wrote correctly, but you would never mistake the one for the other,” Ehrman writes.

The scholar also points to a famous passage in 1 Corinthians in which Paul is recorded as saying that women should be “silent” in churches and that “if they wish to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home.”

Only three chapters earlier, in the same book, Paul is urging women who pray and prophesy in church to cover their heads with veils, Ehrman says: “If they were allowed to speak in chapter 11, how could they be told not to speak in chapter 14?”

Why people forged

Forgers often did their work because they were trying to settle early church disputes, Ehrman says. The early church was embroiled in conflict - people argued over the treatment of women, leadership and relations between masters and slaves, he says.

“There was competition among different groups of Christians about what to believe and each of these groups wanted to have authority to back up their views,” he says. “If you were a nobody, you wouldn’t sign your own name to your treatise. You would sign Peter or John.”

So people claiming to be Peter and John - and all sorts of people who claimed to know Jesus - went into publishing overdrive. Ehrman estimates that there were about 100 forgeries created in the name of Jesus’ inner-circle during the first four centuries of the church.

Witherington concedes that fabrications and forgeries floated around the earliest Christian communities.

But he doesn’t accept the notion that Peter, for example, could not have been literate because he was a fisherman.

“Fisherman had to do business. Guess what? That involves writing, contracts and signed documents,” he said in an interview.

Witherington says people will gravitate toward Ehrman’s work because the media loves sensationalism.

“We live in a Jesus-haunted culture that’s biblically illiterate,” he says. “Almost anything can pass for historical information… A book liked ‘Forged’ can unsettle people who have no third or fourth opinions to draw upon.”

Ehrman, of course, has another point of view.

“Forged” will help people accept something that it took him a long time to accept, says the author, a former fundamentalist who is now an agnostic.

The New Testament wasn’t written by the finger of God, he says - it has human fingerprints all over its pages.

“I’m not saying people should throw it out or it’s not theologically fruitful,” Ehrman says. “I’m saying that by realizing it contains so many forgeries, it shows that it’s a very human book, down to the fact that some authors lied about who they were.”

You give far too much credence to the very same factions who totally gave Germany its swelled head, bring about World War I, World War II and ultimately will lead the world blindly to Armageddon. And the proof of the validity of all the nonsense you want to accept contrary to 2000 years of firmly accepted study and research is what exactly? Was he there? OR could it simply be that since this man has turned against GOD he must discredit the Bible or spotlight the lunacy of his own disbelief...

[_LittleNipper]

For your consideration!

https://answersingenesis.org/is-the-bib ... ks-forged/

[_huckelberry]

(he is quoting)

The scholar also points to a famous passage in 1 Corinthians in which Paul is recorded as saying that women should be “silent” in churches and that “if they wish to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home.”

Only three chapters earlier, in the same book, Paul is urging women who pray and prophesy in church to cover their heads with veils, Ehrman says: “If they were allowed to speak in chapter 11, how could they be told not to speak in chapter 14?”

people argued over the treatment of women,

I think this is the only considered example where there word forgery is appropriate though some other examples may have some of the same coloring.(I II Timothy) The role of women is an important consideration for subsequent Christian history. The forgery here creates some questions about scripture authority. Clearly somebody after Paul added phrases significantly altering Pauls teaching.

I find it a bit silly to use the word forgery for the gospels because they were not written by individuals that people many years later guessed wrote them. They are most genuinely first century compilations of Christian tradition about Jesus. In no sense can I see them as forgeries. I see it that way even if I am decidedly less conservative than Ben Witherington.

I think Ephesians is a summary of Church understanding written by some follower of Paul. That is ok by me. It remains as valid a witness to Christian faith as some letter by some fellow named Paul.

I am not sure if Erhman chose the word forgery for attention or just because he started his studies from a very fundamentalist point of view and was deeply disappointed when that point of view fell apart.