A Hatred of Science is Killing the Church

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_DrW
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Re: A Hatred of Science is Killing the Church

Post by _DrW »

huckelberry wrote:Dr W, I agree with you that thinking that god did it is an idea that does not explain or understand how anything works and has no place in science. I think it is also so thin that it does not qualify as religion either.

I still hold the view that science and religion are different activities acting in their own purview.

Huckleberry,

Do you mean like non-overlapping magisteria (NOMA)?

NOMA has been pretty thoroughly discredited. The problem is that religion (and especially Mormonism) makes affirmative, objective statements that can be scientifically evaluated, or tested, for validity. When so tested, most are falsified.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
_huckelberry
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Re: A Hatred of Science is Killing the Church

Post by _huckelberry »

DrW wrote:
huckelberry wrote:Dr W, I agree with you that thinking that god did it is an idea that does not explain or understand how anything works and has no place in science. I think it is also so thin that it does not qualify as religion either.

I still hold the view that science and religion are different activities acting in their own purview.

Huckleberry,

Do you mean like non-overlapping magisteria (NOMA)?

NOMA has been pretty thoroughly discredited. The problem is that religion (and especially Mormonism) makes affirmative, objective statements that can be scientifically evaluated, or tested, for validity. When so tested, most are falsified.


I would mean that when religion make some statement or holds some belief which science learns is wrong people should learn from science. If that requires religion to change some ideas then religions should learn from science and change.
_Maksutov
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Re: A Hatred of Science is Killing the Church

Post by _Maksutov »

DrW wrote:
huckelberry wrote:Dr W, I agree with you that thinking that god did it is an idea that does not explain or understand how anything works and has no place in science. I think it is also so thin that it does not qualify as religion either.

I still hold the view that science and religion are different activities acting in their own purview.

Huckleberry,

Do you mean like non-overlapping magisteria (NOMA)?

NOMA has been pretty thoroughly discredited. The problem is that religion (and especially Mormonism) makes affirmative, objective statements that can be scientifically evaluated, or tested, for validity. When so tested, most are falsified.


I always saw NOMA as an a model for intellectual diplomacy, a sort of DMZ of discourse. It seems to be fading along with the memory of SJG.
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_huckelberry
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Re: A Hatred of Science is Killing the Church

Post by _huckelberry »

sjg
?

Being without a clue I tried google. South Jersey Gas was the first suggestion.
_Choyo Chagas
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Re: A Hatred of Science is Killing the Church

Post by _Choyo Chagas »

moksha wrote:For Mormons, compartmentalizing science and the LDS religion helps them embrace both without any inevitable matter-antimatter reaction. One encompasses the world in which they live and the other an ideal they would like to exist.
as i am not Mormon - never was and never will be - the category of LDS religion is empty. In other words no substance.
i am living in a world of science.


moksha wrote:That way they can enjoy something pleasing, like when their U.S.S. Enterprise encounters the Voyager Space Probe (from the sciences and philosophies of Man).
star trek is one of the very few series - of having more than ten parts - i enjoy.
that v'ger part is one of the best, a pearl of great price.
oops... that expression is booked (even that book is no more scripture)
Choyo Chagas is Chairman of the Big Four, the ruler of the planet from "The Bull's Hour" ( Russian: Час Быка), a social science fiction novel written by Soviet author and paleontologist Ivan Yefremov in 1968.
Six months after its publication Soviet authorities banned the book and attempted to remove it from libraries and bookshops.
_The CCC
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Re: A Hatred of Science is Killing the Church

Post by _The CCC »

DrW wrote:
The CCC wrote:I have no problem with science or God.

What I would claim that you have no problem with is reconciling your personal beliefs about science with your personal beliefs regarding God. Since one can readily adjust their personal beliefs about both science and God to be mutually compatible, it is easy to understand why so many claim such ability.

Most individuals who have have gained an understanding of science, as opposed to mere belief, would not make such a statement. They also understand that religion and science are diametrically opposed enterprises.

The 'goddidit' hypothesis does not even rate a second thought when evaluated according to the scientific method.

The goddidit hypothesis fails right out of the gate, having:
    - No predictive power
    - No parsimony
    - No supporting evidence
    - and many would claim: No falsifiability


List of scientists who happen to be Christian.
SEE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_C ... technology
_DrW
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Re: A Hatred of Science is Killing the Church

Post by _DrW »

huckelberry wrote:sjg
?
Being without a clue I tried google. South Jersey Gas was the first suggestion.

Stephen J. Gould - the original proponent of NOMA.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
_DrW
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Re: A Hatred of Science is Killing the Church

Post by _DrW »

The CCC wrote:
DrW wrote:The 'goddidit' hypothesis does not even rate a second thought when evaluated according to the scientific method.

The goddidit hypothesis fails right out of the gate, having:
    - No predictive power
    - No parsimony
    - No supporting evidence
    - and many would claim: No falsifiability


List of scientists who happen to be Christian.
SEE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_C ... technology

CCC,

Seems as though we go through this drill on the board every couple of years. My statement was that most of those with a genuine understanding of science (e.g. professional scientists) would not claim that religion and science are compatible. In other words, most professional scientists do not believe in God.

Below is a graphic from a recent Pew Trust survey contrasting the general public to professional scientists when it comes to belief in God. As you can see, among professional scientists the proportion of atheists is about 10 fold of that among the general public, while the proportion of believers is less than half (33% as compared to 83%).

When one considers biologists only, the proportion of believers is substantially lower still. (Evolution strikes again.)

By the time one gets to the best of the best - the National Academy of Science - last time I checked, believers constituted only about 7% of the membership (and I would imagine that this small minority have their doubts).

Image

Note the significantly greater proportion of scientists (7%) who declined to respond to the questions as compared to the general public (1%). Could it be that these scientists know the truth, but simply don't want to admit that goddidit is a failed hypothesis - even to themselves? Adding all of this 7% to the believers, there is still twice the proportion of believers among the general public as among scientists.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
_The CCC
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Re: A Hatred of Science is Killing the Church

Post by _The CCC »

I never said that science agrees with religion. I have simply argued that science deals with the natural and religion deals with the supernatural.
SEE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJpYUxRL_3U

You do like your ad populum argument don't you?
_Maksutov
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Re: A Hatred of Science is Killing the Church

Post by _Maksutov »

The CCC wrote:I never said that science agrees with religion. I have simply argued that science deals with the natural and religion deals with the supernatural.
SEE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJpYUxRL_3U

You do like your ad populum argument don't you?


What supernatural phenomena is explained by religion?
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
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