A Hatred of Science is Killing the Church

[_Res Ipsa]

I always saw NOMA as an a model for intellectual diplomacy, a sort of DMZ of discourse. It seems to be fading along with the memory of SJG.

That's how I've thought of it, too. I never thought of it an accurate description of reality. Rather, I thought of it as a practical framework for approaching science and religion. I think it's a shame that it's fading. I think we need more ways of figuring out how to survive together than we do clubbing each other with big sticks.

[_The CCC]

What supernatural phenomena is explained by religion?

Supernatural means pertaining to God. Jesus walking on water.

[_Res Ipsa]

How does religion explain walking on water?

[_DrW]

I never said that science agrees with religion. I have simply argued that science deals with the natural and religion deals with the supernatural.
SEE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJpYUxRL_3U

You do like your ad populum argument don't you?

Since a majority of the population believes in God, my position could hardly be considered ad populum. Perhaps you should try appeal to authority.

Better yet, forget the logical fallacies and the youtube woowoo. Simply consider the evidence and apply a bit of logic and reason.

[_huckelberry]

sjg
?
Being without a clue I tried google. South Jersey Gas was the first suggestion.

Stephen J. Gould - the original proponent of NOMA.

Well that would fit wouldn't it. I have enjoyed reading some of his work though not focusing on noma. What I did read of that struck me as fitting exactly what Maksutov was seeing. Keep peace at the Thanksgiving family dinner table.

[_Res Ipsa]

Well that would fit wouldn't it. I have enjoyed reading some of his work though not focusing on noma. What I did read of that struck me as fitting exactly what Maksutov was seeing. Keep peace at the Thanksgiving family dinner table.

Found a link to an essay Gould wrote on the subject. http://jbburnett.com/resources/gould_nonoverlapping.pdf

[_huckelberry]

Well that would fit wouldn't it. I have enjoyed reading some of his work though not focusing on noma. What I did read of that struck me as fitting exactly what Maksutov was seeing. Keep peace at the Thanksgiving family dinner table.

Found a link to an essay Gould wrote on the subject. http://jbburnett.com/resources/gould_nonoverlapping.pdf

thanks Res Ipsa, I recognize some portions of that article but I do not think I have read the whole previously. It is an enjoyably thought out statement. It is aware that the Noma was not invented by Gould, I was aware of the line of thought some decades earlier.(and I am sure others were aware well before me) It is also aware of some pressures and unresolved relationships between science and religion. That is natural when you think instead of dogmatize. I would not wish to try and maintain Mormonism in the face of scientific pressure. There are sharp conflict points. However thinking may find ways to adjust thinking even in that relationship. Dogmatist may object to that sort of relationship but I do not wish to protect that peculiar sensitivity.

[_The CCC]

Since a majority of the population believes in God, my position could hardly be considered ad populum. Perhaps you should try appeal to authority.

Better yet, forget the logical fallacies and the youtube woowoo. Simply consider the evidence and apply a bit of logic and reason.

Which God? Do we include the Pastafarian one. Depends on what evidence you want to look at. As I said I have no problem with science and no problem with God. I do have plenty of problems with some of the claims of some people in both fields.

[_Gunnar]

Dr W, I agree with you that thinking that god did it is an idea that does not explain or understand how anything works and has no place in science. I think it is also so thin that it does not qualify as religion either.

I still hold the view that science and religion are different activities acting in their own purview.

Huckleberry,

Do you mean like non-overlapping magisteria (NOMA)?

NOMA has been pretty thoroughly discredited. The problem is that religion (and especially Mormonism) makes affirmative, objective statements that can be scientifically evaluated, or tested, for validity. When so tested, most are falsified.

I agree with you that NOMA has been thoroughly discredited, but I would rather see popular and widespread acceptance of NOMA than widespread and growing rejection of science by religionists simply because they have a growing awareness of the inherent incompatibility between science and religion and simply can't bear the thought of abandoning the latter. There are already too many influential politicians who are convinced of that inherent incompatibility who therefore reject and disparage science on that basis.

[Guest]

Which God? Do we include the Pastafarian one.

If you are referring to the Flying Spaghetti Monster (FSM), then you have hit upon what is probably the most sophisticated, and useful, of all man-made deities. When it comes to the wise use of supernatural abilities, it's pretty hard to beat the FSM.

A fairly recent addition to the pantheon, the FSM has been endowed by humankind with powers, characteristics and abilities that virtually assure that Its true religion will not be found self-contradictory or illogical in any way.

Unlike Jehovah / Elohim, FSM has no imagined enemies among humankind. Its Savory Goodness has not exterminated entire populations. Its noodly appendage reach out to all - regardless of race, color, creed, or sexual orientation.

It requires no tithing, sacrifice, or lifetime commitment to arbitrary strictures, and is more than happy to nourish anyone who will partake.

The religion of the FSM is in absolute harmony with science, pretty much by definition.

Nope - seekers of religious truth cannot do much better than the FSM.

I say this in the name of Its Noodly Appendages,

Rahmen.