Little girl has her mic turned off during F&T meeting

[_Sanctorian]

I'm sure we've all sat through lessons, talks, or testimonies where false doctrine or positions contrary to the church were taught. In all those situations, I've never participated in one when the mic was shut off. What I have witnessed when such situations arise is the Bishop standing up immediately after to say words to make clear the church position on such matters.

Shutting off the mic and having her sit down was a huge error on this bishops part. There was no excuse for it and anyone defending his position needs to reevaluate their thoughts. It was bad form. Did he have a right? Absolutely. Was it right? Not at all. F&T meetings are open forum and are prone to all sorts of uncontrollable responses. That's the risk you run with an open mic. The solution is not censoring, but allowing the participant to say what they want and then follow up by making a statement on the church's official position immediately after.

Regardless of how you think the girl ended up in this situation or whether or not you agree with her statements, she's still a little girl that is fundamentally being rejected by her community. Having her mic shut off and asked to sit down will only amplify that in her already tough teen years. That's not healthy and I can only hope she ends up on the right side of the equation and makes it to adulthood. If not, that's blood on this church and bishops hands.

[_Jersey Girl]

Regardless of how you think the girl ended up in this situation or whether or not you agree with her statements, she's still a little girl that is fundamentally being rejected by her community. Having her mic shut off and asked to sit down will only amplify that in her already tough teen years. That's not healthy and I can only hope she ends up on the right side of the equation and makes it to adulthood. If not, that's blood on this church and bishops hands.

Yes. Yes. Yes.

[_moksha]

I don't buy into that false doctrine argument. Seems to me that the Church policy truly has its roots in the hatred against homosexuality that was part of the Church's eldest leaders generation. This same hatred has not consumed younger generations in the Church and twisted their thoughts in such a way as to believe the root of that hatred emanates from God.

The policy stems from the hatred of old men and it sullies all other benevolent Church doctrines to be included with it.

Apologists might deny that this Church policy poop stinks, but that does not preclude it from being odorific.

[_Shulem]

I don't buy into that false doctrine argument. Seems to me that the Church policy truly has its roots in the hatred against homosexuality that was part of the Church's eldest leaders generation. This same hatred has not consumed younger generations in the Church and twisted their thoughts in such a way as to believe the root of that hatred emanates from God.

The policy stems from the hatred of old men and it sullies all other benevolent Church doctrines to be included with it.

Apologists might deny that this Church policy poop stinks, but that does not preclude it from being odorific.

I tend to agree. The church absolutely abhors homosexuality. The leaders perceive that homosexual acceptance is a direct threat to the church and perhaps the last stand it can make before the Mormon ship truly starts to take in water. They have to stop the homosexual advancement at all cost. Without tight controls on sexual nature in the church they will lose their hold of both men and boys resulting in diminished tithe dollars. It's all about controlling the crotch and keeping sex under tight control. But the church is losing the war. Sex is going to win and ultimately the younger generation is going to rebel against the old establishment. The sexual revolution is coming of age and the old ways are fast becoming less desirable.

[_Choyo Chagas]

So, JLHPROF, what's your theory as to why the microphone was turned off?

False doctrine being preached.

please list the true doctrines, or present any link to all true doctrines !

bruce r. mcconkie's book doesn't count, as:

... after meeting to discuss the book, the January 8, 1960 office notes of McKay reflect:

"We [the First Presidency of the church] decided that Bruce R. McConkie’s book, 'Mormon Doctrine' recently published by Bookcraft Company, must not be re-published, as it is full of errors and misstatements, and it is most unfortunate that it has received such wide circulation. It is reported to us that Brother McConkie has made corrections to his book, and is now preparing another edition. We decided this morning that we do not want him to publish another edition."

McKay called Joseph Fielding Smith on January 27, 1960 to inform him of the decision to ban further publication of the book:

[McKay] then said: 'Now, Brother Smith, he is a General Authority, and we do not want to give him a public rebuke that would be embarrassing to him and lessen his influence with the members of the Church, so we shall speak to the Twelve at our meeting in the temple tomorrow, and tell them that Brother McConkie's book is not approved as an authoritative book, and that it should not be republished, even if the errors... are corrected.' Brother Smith agreed with this suggestion to report to the Twelve, and said, 'That is the best thing to do.'

up to now, there is no such thing as "Mormon doctrine"
many of apologist mention it, refers to it, but nobody has defined - at least up to now

you will be the first...

[_Lemmie]

A good amount of effort has been put into policing congregations and ending the practice of kids bearing testimony with parents at their ear. But the one thing has nothing to do with the other thing regardless.

Some would disagree, at least, ironically.....

Church Mandates Ear-Whisperer for LGBT Members Bearing Testimony
- June 16, 2017

Salt Lake City, UT — In the wake of a viral video of a 12-year-old girl expressing her love of God and her testimony that he made her just the way she is, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints plans to implement a church-wide policy to prevent future similar events. The policy will be added to Handbook 1, and states that anyone identifying as part of the LGBT community must be accompanied by a designated ear-whisperer should they choose to speak in a public church meeting.

“Fast and Testimony Meeting is a spiritually uplifting and special time,” church spokesman Eric Hawkins said in a press conference. “For that reason, it is necessary to take some measures to ensure that all testimonies remain gospel-focused. When anyone suffering from same sex attraction or gender confusion feels the desire to bear their testimony, they are more than welcome, even encouraged, to do so. They simply must be accompanied by a trusted friend or family member who will stand approximately 2 inches away while whispering each line of testimony into their ear before they recite it into the microphone. This helper will be responsible for thinking of spiritually uplifting things for their loved one to talk about, such as knowing the church is true, and being grateful for the prophet Joseph Smith.”

The mandated practice is similar to how many LDS parents help their toddler-aged children speak in Testimony Meeting, despite church leaders widely discouraging it. “The general policy remains the same for regular children” Hawkins clarified. “They ought to wait until they’re old enough to bear testimony on their own, as it can be very distracting to watch a small child yell half-intelligible things his hunched over parent whispered to him only seconds before. However, it’s even more distracting for someone to talk about same sex marriage, or anything else against God’s commandments, in a positive light. We understand that there are many members afflicted with same sex attraction who plan to either stay celibate, or be sealed to someone of the opposite gender in accordance to God’s plan, and live with that unique challenge. We applaud those people, but feel it’s best to avoid the risk of a disruptive Sacrament Meeting.”

The policy also specifies that LGBT members who are 18 or older may choose to bear testimony while self-flagellating, if they prefer. “This is about love, the love of the Savior” Elder D. Todd Christofferson said in an interview with The Expositor. “We love our LGBT brothers and sisters and want to be as accommodating as possible. A legal adult may feel demeaned to stand at the podium and parrot what someone else says, so we wanted to provide this additional option. We do not wish to discourage any church member from testifying of the truthfulness of the restored gospel.”
https://sandyexpositor.wordpress.com/20 ... testimony/

[bolding added by me, to emphasize Doc's point.]

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Classic "leave the church but can't leave it alone" type of thinking. Two wrongs don't make a right.

That doesn't make any sense in context to this discussion.

And as it happens, the church has actually banned this sort of behavior. A good amount of effort has been put into policing congregations and ending the practice of kids bearing testimony with parents at their ear. But the one thing has nothing to do with the other thing regardless.

Do you have a source or offical policy for your assertion? It's an interesting development if you're right.

- Doc

[_Lemmie]

Some would disagree, at least, ironically.....

Church Mandates Ear-Whisperer for LGBT Members Bearing Testimony
- June 16, 2017

Salt Lake City, UT — In the wake of a viral video of a 12-year-old girl expressing her love of God and her testimony that he made her just the way she is, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints plans to implement a church-wide policy to prevent future similar events. The policy will be added to Handbook 1, and states that anyone identifying as part of the LGBT community must be accompanied by a designated ear-whisperer should they choose to speak in a public church meeting.

“Fast and Testimony Meeting is a spiritually uplifting and special time,” church spokesman Eric Hawkins said in a press conference. “For that reason, it is necessary to take some measures to ensure that all testimonies remain gospel-focused. When anyone suffering from same sex attraction or gender confusion feels the desire to bear their testimony, they are more than welcome, even encouraged, to do so. They simply must be accompanied by a trusted friend or family member who will stand approximately 2 inches away while whispering each line of testimony into their ear before they recite it into the microphone. This helper will be responsible for thinking of spiritually uplifting things for their loved one to talk about, such as knowing the church is true, and being grateful for the prophet Joseph Smith.”

The mandated practice is similar to how many LDS parents help their toddler-aged children speak in Testimony Meeting, despite church leaders widely discouraging it. “The general policy remains the same for regular children” Hawkins clarified. “They ought to wait until they’re old enough to bear testimony on their own, as it can be very distracting to watch a small child yell half-intelligible things his hunched over parent whispered to him only seconds before. However, it’s even more distracting for someone to talk about same sex marriage, or anything else against God’s commandments, in a positive light. We understand that there are many members afflicted with same sex attraction who plan to either stay celibate, or be sealed to someone of the opposite gender in accordance to God’s plan, and live with that unique challenge. We applaud those people, but feel it’s best to avoid the risk of a disruptive Sacrament Meeting.”

The policy also specifies that LGBT members who are 18 or older may choose to bear testimony while self-flagellating, if they prefer. “This is about love, the love of the Savior” Elder D. Todd Christofferson said in an interview with The Expositor. “We love our LGBT brothers and sisters and want to be as accommodating as possible. A legal adult may feel demeaned to stand at the podium and parrot what someone else says, so we wanted to provide this additional option. We do not wish to discourage any church member from testifying of the truthfulness of the restored gospel.”
https://sandyexpositor.wordpress.com/20 ... testimony/

[bolding added by me, to emphasize Doc's point.]

I think this is what would be called fake news... you just got trolled by something along the lines of The Onion.

Are you serious??? You didn't see the word "IRONICALLY" at the beginning of my post? You think I didn't know what that entry was?
ROTFLMAO

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

WD,

Your use of 'leaving the church but can't leave it alone' canard isn't applicable to the context of the discussion. You again failed to make your statement make any sense within the confines of the discussion.

Also, I call buuuuuuuuuuuuull crap on the kids not being allowed to bare their testimonies. The Ward near us does it EVERY SINGLE F&T. My BIL's Ward does it EVERY SINGLE F&T. I attended church in Korea in 2014 and 2015 a few times and the kids were being coached both F&T's I was there.

You. Are. Full of it.

- Doc

[_Sanctorian]

@waterdog,

You are jumping to some pretty heavy conclusions with no evidence to support your claim this was staged. There are plenty of possibilities that don't include this being a set up. I'll give you one possibility and you can agree to disagree, but is it possible the parents filmed this event so as to show their daughter support? Meaning, they wanted to document how strong and courageous their daughter was to make such a statement in front of her peers and community. I know it's not typical in Mormon culture to "film" such events, but to suggest the parents "knew" the mic would be turned off and they filmed it just cuz they "knew" it would go viral seems like a stretch.

I've seen plenty of people record or take notes of their own talks or baby blessings or whatever to keep record of the event. Hell, the patriarch records every blessing they give. Technology has advanced and "video" is just as easy as a tape recorder now, but recording ones "special events" in the church is not new and likely debunks your theory of this entire episode as being staged.

Now, these parents as I understand do have a blog for their daughter and I don't doubt they recorded this event for their blog. However, I am unwilling to say they "knew" the bishop would turn off the mic. I would venture to suggest they only filmed it to post to their blog as they have been documenting their daughters life events before, during and after this event as a way of keeping record. That much is clear. What you are suggesting is speculation and conspiracy theory.