BYU faculty and the Book of Mormon

[_Themis]

The plates place the Book of Mormon in the real world...not an imaginary world of Joseph's creation.

As I said earlier...why in the heck did Joseph go to all the trouble of creating and carrying out...with a great degree of sacrifice and discomfort...the plates narrative? Couldn't he have done just as well and done exactly what you're suggesting...just come up with the book out of whole cloth?

Regards,
MG

Why do you ask questions which you already answered in your first sentence? You should also check out Leemie's quote of CaliforniaKid's post on the subject.

[_mentalgymnast]

You should also check out Leemie's quote of CaliforniaKid's post on the subject.

I remember CK's original postings back when he made them.

Regards,
MG

[_mentalgymnast]

How did I know that MG's response to my comment would be special pleading?

James Strang claimed to have had an angel appear to him and call him to be the prophet after Joseph died. Strang then claimed to find ancient plates. He translated them. He had witnesses. The witnesses, to the best of my knowledge, never claimed to have any sort of contact with angels. Their witness was simply that. A witness.

Is that pretty much it?

The qualitative difference between the purported experiences of the Strang witnesses and the witnesses connected with Joseph's...Moroni's...plates are literally astounding.

Regards,
MG

[_Themis]

I remember CK's original postings back when he made them.

Regards,
MG

Did you realize when you asked your question you had already answered it?

[_Themis]

James Strang claimed to have had an angel appear to him and call him to be the prophet after Joseph died. Strang then claimed to find ancient plates. He translated them. He had witnesses. The witnesses, to the best of my knowledge, never claimed to have any sort of contact with angels. Their witness was simply that. A witness.

Is that pretty much it?

The qualitative difference between the purported experiences of the Strang witnesses and the witnesses connected with Joseph's...Moroni's...plates are literally astounding.

Regards,
MG

I don't know if any of Strang's followers claim angels, but we do have witnesses saying they saw plates. Only three witnesses for Joseph claim an angel was involved, and one of them has a second hand witness saying he saw them with the eye of faith. Strang may not be as talented as Joseph was, but he copied the same poor formula frauds like to use. Having close believers view the supposed plates under well controlled condition scream fraud. Is God that stupid MG?

Why wouldn't God just leave behind the plates to be examined for authenticity? The only reason I hear is for blind faith, but why blind faith? Is blind faith really a good thing to have MG?

[_mentalgymnast]

I remember CK's original postings back when he made them.

Regards,
MG

Did you realize when you asked your question you had already answered it?

Hey Themis, I would invite you to go back and read my contributions to this thread. I've already laid out where I'm coming from as to why I believe the plates were necessary to the translation and have posted a link or two which back up my basic position.

I would invite others to do the same. I'd just as well not rehash and/or repeat myself or focus on more or less nit picky stuff.

I have been clear in laying things out from where I view things.

It is at this point in a conversation such as this that believers...such as myself...and disbelievers...such as you...are going to part ways. Isn't that par for the course?

Regards,
MG

[_mentalgymnast]

Why wouldn't God just leave behind the plates to be examined for authenticity?

Truth be told, that would really be cool. Although if this was the case, you, I...and EVERYONE ELSE would be left without excuse but to adhere to and accept the Book of Mormon for what it purports to be. I'd call that enforced free agency.

Personally, I don't like to be forced/coerced into doing anything.

That doesn't seem to be the way God works in this world. We make our own choices. And we OWN them.

If the plates remained, I think that would subtract the element of choice to a LARGE if not insurmountable extent.

Regards,
MG

[_Themis]

Hey Themis, I would invite you to go back and read my contributions to this thread. I've already laid out where I'm coming from as to why I believe the plates were necessary to the translation and have posted a link or two which back up my basic position.

I know you think you did, but you really didn't. Res Ipsa covers it pretty well. I would just say all you have done is show the plates were not necessary for translation, but you think they were important as a prop to get others to believe. That's what a fraud does.

[_Res Ipsa]

Hey Themis, I would invite you to go back and read my contributions to this thread. I've already laid out where I'm coming from as to why I believe the plates were necessary to the translation and have posted a link or two which back up my basic position.

I would invite others to do the same. I'd just as well not rehash and/or repeat myself or focus on more or less nit picky stuff.

I have been clear in laying things out from where I view things.

It is at this point in a conversation such as this that believers...such as myself...and disbelievers...such as you...are going to part ways. Isn't that par for the course?

Regards,
MG

You’ve done no such thing. You’ve simply claimed that the plates were necessary to convince certain folks that The Book of Mormon was a translation of an ancient record, which has nothing to do with the translation. You are blatantly misrepresenting your own posts.

[Guest]

Why wouldn't God just leave behind the plates to be examined for authenticity?

Truth be told, that would really be cool. Although if this was the case, you, I...and EVERYONE ELSE would be left without excuse but to adhere to and accept the Book of Mormon for what it purports to be. I'd call that enforced free agency.

Personally, I don't like to be forced/coerced into doing anything.

That doesn't seem to be the way God works in this world. We make our own choices. And we OWN them.

If the plates remained, I think that would subtract the element of choice to a LARGE if not insurmountable extent.

Regards,
MG

MG,

Now and then your displays of convoluted logic and naïvété are so over the top that they require some kind of rational response.

Not only do individuals who share your worldview tend to attribute everything they can't explain to goddidit, they apparently eventually become intellectually lazy to an extent that they attribute that which is readily understood by more rational people to goddidit.

- God took back the plates. He did that to help humans have faith in him. (What do you think would have happened to Mormon faith if the plates were still available and it was found that they were written in a non-existent language - one that could not be translated by anyone on Earth? Think about it.)

- Your young son died tragically when hit by a car, because God needed him in heaven more than he was needed on Earth.

- Don't be concerned about Global Warming or Climate Change - the future of God's creation is surely in his hands.

And on and on it goes.

Sorry, but such utter nonsense resulting from poor judgment and critical thinking skills is one reason that the US ranks in the 9th place group internationally in terms of adult IQ, as I described on NL's 'Smart People Hate God' thread.

Just thought you might want to know what the reaction of many (if not most) on this board is to your blind faith Mormon apologist type posts and proclamations.