"National Emergency" it is!

[_Jersey Girl]

Kevin something that I think you are missing here is the other side. Trump's base. You like to characterize them in derogatory ways and turn them into something to be abhorred and disrespected when they are citizens with their own concerns.

You want what you'd like to see happen-happen, you think that your preferences are more legitimate than theirs, but the truth is that a great number of American citizens voted for what they wanted...which includes the stupid effing wall and you have got to recognize that they, too, have a right to their preferences as voiced via their vote for Trump.

What you want to see happen doesn't delegitimize what the rest of the folks want. That you are at a different stage or station in life, doesn't cancel out them and their concerns. It simply blinds you to their reality and polarizes the discussion.

The animosity and contempt that you display here is representative of what we see going across our nation. It gets us exactly damned nowhere. All it gets us is a perpetual pissing contest with no solution.

[_Res Ipsa]

If you think Trump's base would be OK with a cyber wall as opposed to a physical 35 ft wall that's 1,000 miles long, then I think you underestimate them. It would be a huge loss for Trump because for years now everyone has been expecting him to fulfill his promise that it would be real and Mexico would pay.

I hear from at least some of his base on almost a daily basis. You'd be shocked by what they are saying. I know that I am. And I'm talking about your typical Trump supporter. Not those whose vote for Trump was a vote against Hillary Clinton.

What has to happen is for both sides to gravitate to the middle and if you don't think anyone is willing to do that, I think you're wrong. Trump just baby stepped towards the middle himself. Granted he was forced into it, but that's how negotiation is going to have to work.

In order to save face with his base he has to satisfy them somehow. You want to see him wrestled to the ground and cry uncle, and that's not realistic.

Get real.

I think you hit the nail on the head. During the Obama presidency, Ryan and McConnell sent to the base over and over the message that compromise was bad. It was weak. It was traitorous. And that was amplified by Fox, Limbaugh, Coulter, etc. So now Trump has saddled himself with a base that viciously turns on him if he tries to compromise.

At the same time, much of the left is so pissed off at Trump and what he stands for, they’d rather stick a fork in his eye than do anything that could be construed as giving him a win. Both have to be able to sell any deal to their base as a win, which means no wrestling to the ground.

[_ajax18]

As Trump pointed out, the wall is a big part of high tech electronic security. You need somewhere to set the cameras.

[_Kevin Graham]

When Trump says smart wall, he’s still including the steel bollard fence.

Perhaps, but he's clearly moving in that direction and is clearly willing to change his definition for a wall. "Smart wall" meant something very specific long before Trump started using it. It referred to a cyber wall that was pitched more than 18 months ago on FOX News by a Republican lawmaker from Texas.

So, yeah, 1000 miles of physical “wall” So if you are right that Pelosi won’t budge on a physical wall and Trump won’t budge either, you’ve already given up.

I've given up? I'm just predicting their positions based on what they've said. I think at this point Trump is the only person between the two of them who has softened his stance on what the wall actually is.

During the shutdown is different, as Pelosi staked out a firm position that she would not negotiate at all while the government was shut down.

Yes, but she could have just as easily said, "Look, end the shutdown and we can negotiate funding your wall" and that probably would have ended the shutdown weeks ago. But instead she maintained a wall was immoral and only said they would negotiate on border security after the shutdown ended.

The government won’t be shut down shortly. Just watch. Lots of what we’ll hear is posturing, but I’m pretty sure a deal will be done.

You may be right, but I would be disappointed if Pelosi gave in to a physical wall over DACA protections that are likely to happen anyway. It would mean her previous rhetoric about a wall being useless, inefficient, a waste of taxpayer money and above all, immoral, was just BS all along.

If I were her I'd up the ante to $10 billion for border security and a "smart wall" like the ones Democrats and Rep. Hurd have proposed in the past and offer this in exchange for Trump to go ahead end the DACA madness before the courts do.

This has nothing to do with wanting Trump to be wrestled to the ground screaming uncle, don't listen to Jersey Girl as she's almost always wrong about me. From what I can tell, what happened tonight already amounts to Trump screaming uncle anyway. What I'm saying is that giving him a wall now is a bad idea because after caving on the shutdown he demonstrates he has zero leverage. You wouldn't give him a wall with 800,000 hostages, but go ahead and give it to him after the hostages are set free? I just don't see Pelosi getting enough from Trump in exchange for a wall because I don't think Trump has that much he is willing to offer. But we'll find out soon enough.

Trump wouldn't dare shut down the government again, he'd probably want to pull his "national emergency" stunt and try to fund it by funneling money from other areas.

[_Jersey Girl]

This has nothing to do with wanting Trump to be wrestled to the ground screaming uncle, don't listen to Jersey Girl as she's almost always wrong about me.

Yes, because RI accepts direction from Jersey Girl. Do you even hear yourself?

[_EAllusion]

Democrats bargained a wall for DACA from a much weaker negotiating position only to have it killed by Trump at the last minute last time out. It is difficult to see them getting enough for the wall that Miller et. al. find palatable.

[_Kevin Graham]

This has nothing to do with wanting Trump to be wrestled to the ground screaming uncle, don't listen to Jersey Girl as she's almost always wrong about me.

Yes, because RI accepts direction from Jersey Girl. Do you even hear yourself?

Yes, and I can also read his response to your assertion when he starts off with "You hit the nail on the head" and ends with "no wrestling to the ground."

[_Kevin Graham]

Democrats bargained a wall for DACA from a much weaker negotiating position only to have it killed by Trump at the last minute last time out. It is difficult to see them getting enough for the wall that Miller et. al. find palatable.

That's my feeling as well. Miller isn't going to stand for it.

[_Jersey Girl]

Yes, and I can also read his response to your assertion when he starts off with "You hit the nail on the head" and ends with "no wrestling to the ground."

There was a whole bunch of stuff in the middle there.

[_Res Ipsa]

Democrats bargained a wall for DACA from a much weaker negotiating position only to have it killed by Trump at the last minute last time out. It is difficult to see them getting enough for the wall that Miller et. al. find palatable.

That's my feeling as well. Miller isn't going to stand for it.

Miller isn’t President, and he pushed a losing strategy this time. Trump is fickle and can turn on a dime. And he’s tough on folks who make him look weak. And he really wants that wall.

I read the history the opposite way. Trump was at one time willing to trade wall for DACA. That tells me there’s a deal he’s willing to do. Just like Schumer was willing to trade wall money for DACA.

Several states sued in Texas federal court challenging the legality of DACA. The trial recently stated that the state’s were likely to win. There is an excellent chance the Supreme Court would agree. I think DACA’s on life support. The only way to protect those young folks is a statute that gives them the chance to become citizens. Trump really really wants something he can call a wall. The Democrats hold the keys. And the price of the keys should be DACA.

Note that I’m not saying give Trump 1000 miles of bollard fencing. But give him something that he can call a win.