cwald wrote:Wait? There is evidence of Christ's resurrection? I've heard people claim there is evidence that proves a historical Jesus, but now we have "evidence" of not only that, but of his resurrection as well? Wow. That is awesome.
People saw him, eh? The Bible says so. There’s your evidence.
Don’t get me wrong. It is evidence. The question is one of the strength of the evidence and whether it is convincing.
You confirm my belief that Mormons are atheists at heart and simply worship themselves - they are, after all, little bitty gods in embryo, right? I don't really care whether or not you personally believe in the Resurrection, or in Baal, or in Satan. Your choice, your UNfree agency! Unless the Holy Spirit regenerates you, you cannot believe. Your will, and the will of most Mormons or ex-Mos here is in bondage to Satan - men really are fallen, and this site proves that very conclusively. What did Jesus teach, not that most here really care:
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him." - John 6:44
Seeing the mockery here, the idolatry, the addiction to Mormonism, pretty much proves that Jesus spoke the truth when He said:
""No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him." - John 6:44"
So, here's a little article from a Calvinist perspective, something Joey Smith would have hated:
Servant wrote:You confirm my belief that Mormons are atheists at heart and simply worship themselves - they are, after all, little bitty gods in embryo, right? I don't really care whether or not you personally believe in the Resurrection, or in Baal, or in Satan. Your choice, your UNfree agency! Unless the Holy Spirit regenerates you, you cannot believe. Your will, and the will of most Mormons or ex-Mos here is in bondage to Satan - men really are fallen, and this site proves that very conclusively.
You don’t know me, Servant. You don’t know my thoughts or my heart. Your eagerness to judge me does not speak well of your behavior. When I speak of evidence, I speak as a historian. I am a professional historian. I am not obliged to bare my soul in this discussion.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
Servant wrote:You confirm my belief that Mormons are atheists at heart and simply worship themselves - they are, after all, little bitty gods in embryo, right? I don't really care whether or not you personally believe in the Resurrection, or in Baal, or in Satan. Your choice, your UNfree agency! Unless the Holy Spirit regenerates you, you cannot believe. Your will, and the will of most Mormons or ex-Mos here is in bondage to Satan - men really are fallen, and this site proves that very conclusively.
You don’t know me, Servant. You don’t know my thoughts or my heart. Your eagerness to judge me does not speak well of your behavior. When I speak of evidence, I speak as a historian. I am a professional historian. I am not obliged to bare my soul in this discussion.
Read the article I posted above. We will know them by their "works." We are fruit inspectors. And Mormonism and Atheism, which are kissing cousins, are rotten fruit.
Charles Spurgeon was probably one of the greatest evangelists who ever lived. At least for those of us who follow Christ. He had this to say about "free will:"
"Look at how C.H. Spurgeon describes this concept:
Where there is not this coming to Christ, it is certain that there is as yet no quickening; where there is no quickening, the soul is dead in trespasses and sins, and being dead it cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven. We have before us now an announcement very startling, some say very obnoxious. Coming to Christ, though described by some people as being the very easiest thing in all the world, is in our text declared to be a thing utterly and entirely impossible to any man, unless the Father shall draw him to Christ. (Charles Spurgeon, Human Inability)
He also comments on others when they:
"Oh!... men may be saved if they will." We reply, "My dear sir, we all believe that; but it is just the" if they will" that is the difficulty. We assert that no man will come to Christ unless he be drawn; nay, we do not assert it, but Christ himself declares it--"Ye will not come unto me that ye might have life;' and as long as that "ye will not come' stands on record in Holy Scripture, we shall not be brought to believe in any doctrine of the freedom of the human will." It is strange how people, when talking about free-will, talk of things which they do not at all understand. "Now," says one, "I believe men can be saved if they will." My dear sir, that is not the question at all. The question is, are men ever found naturally willing to submit to the humbling terms of the gospel of Christ? We declare, upon Scriptural authority, that the human will is so desperately set on mischief, so depraved, and so inclined to everything that is evil, and so disinclined to everything that is good, that without the powerful. supernatural, irresistible influence of the Holy Spirit, no human will ever be constrained towards Christ. (emphasis mine).
Perhaps the following little example will help -- If we borrowed a huge sum of money then squandered it in a week of gambling and wasteful living, we still must repay the debt. Our inability to repay the debt does not alievaite the obligation to repay it. Our sin against God resulting in the fall bringing us into a position of inability does not thereby make God lower His standard for us. The standard remains the same and we cannot fulfil it, so He sends Jesus Christ to fulfil the covenant for us, doing what we were unable to do ourselves. On our own we would never believe or obey God. So He pays our debt and helps us out of spiritual death by giving us the new birth which immediately results in faith. Even our faith was a gift of God (Eph 2:8, John 1:13, 2 Tim 2:25, Phil 1:29, Hebrews 12:2, 1 John 5:1, Rom 3:24, Ezekiel 11:19-20; Ezekiel 36:26-27) Make sense? "
Personally, before I humbled myself and came to Christ, I was a "works" person. I believed that my works had to be added to Jesus' Blood, in order for me to be saved. This is no different than Mormonism, or any other cult. When I read Ephesians 2:8-10 however, I was struck over the head by God's grace-giving Holy Spirit: I was brought to my knees, repenting of my sins and crying out for the mercy of salvation through Jesus Christ. And, by God's great mercy, salvation came! I can't explain it, but I knew that my sins were surely forgiven and that I had really been born again. This is something every true Christian has experienced (in different ways, I'm sure). Even Mormons have experienced this, but they leave Mormonism because regeneration is incompatible with Mormonism. The regenerate believer cannot long survive in the wicked world of Joseph Smith.
Man, if members of the CofJCofLDS are anything like what Servant is describing I'm super embarrassed. I guess I've been in Utah too long. We're actually a pretty nice bunch here. Not perfect. But trying to be good Christians.
When I travel outside of Utah members seem to be nice too. Yes, they do missionary work but I really don't think I can get on board with the accusation that they are being idiots about it. That's not the way to bring people to Christ...and members aren't so dumb that they don't realize that.
I do believe that we ought not to fight against our Christian brothers and sisters. If that has been your experience with members of the church, Servant, I feel bad that this is so. Folks like us who consider Joseph Smith to be a prophet also worship Jesus as Lord and Savior...just like you do. We ought to be friends, not enemies.
Regards, MG[/quote]
The utter arrogance of Mormons (as one will find on such sites as CARM) is the greatest evidence that they have never humbled themselves and come to Christ. We see the fruit of Mormonism, and it is not good my friend. Jesus was humble, and so must be those who follow Him: “The LORD is near to those who have a broken heart, and saves such as have a contrite spirit” (Psalm 34:18)."
Yes, I had a broken heart. I was lost, but now I have been found by God's grace and His alone. I was a miserable worm of a human being. Without hope. Without any knowledge of God. But He saved me when I read this: 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. Eph. 2 You see, it wasn't by faithful church attendance, by tithing, by being good, by being faithful to a creed - it was totally by grace (God's unmerited favor) that I was saved that evening in 1972, Mother's Day, and that I was cleansed of sin and given a new, regenerated spirit. And now I have absolute assurance of my salvation.
So all the nasty bombs people throw at me on this site (and you can see them for yourself), have really no effect. I posted this in the hopes that oceancoast from CARM would see it. I think he might since it has gotten so many views. And I'm sure he will be able to find me, but if not, then that is also God's will.
There is none. Christians sometimes let their imaginations run wild as they fantasize about their superhero.
[/quote] Perhaps. But if Servant is interested in sharing, I'd be interested in that thread happening.[/quote]
Did Jesus rise from the dead? Come on, it's been over 2,000 years since the Lord was crucified. If His body was in a grave or hidden, it would have been found by now folks. Jesus did rise, and that's something every atheistic ex-Mormon here needs to know:
If Jesus conquered death, then you unbelievers need to study what He taught, and come to Him. Joseph Smith has a grave in Nauvoo, Ill. I've seen it twice. He never came out, folks. He never conquered death, regardless of all the monstrous worship the Mormons give to him (making his blood equal to Christ's). Who will you believe? Jesus or Joseph? They are mutally exclusive.
Servant wrote:Read the article I posted above. We will know them by their "works." We are fruit inspectors. And Mormonism and Atheism, which are kissing cousins, are rotten fruit.
Your opinion. Your works look very bitter to a lot of us. What should one make of that? I guess your understanding of Christianity is deeply flawed, and your approach to preaching your version of the truth is backfiring.
The truth of the matter is that your posts have nothing to do with genuine love for others or concern for their salvation.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen
Man, if members of the CofJCofLDS are anything like what Servant is describing I'm super embarrassed. I guess I've been in Utah too long. We're actually a pretty nice bunch here. Not perfect. But trying to be good Christians.
When I travel outside of Utah members seem to be nice too. Yes, they do missionary work but I really don't think I can get on board with the accusation that they are being idiots about it. That's not the way to bring people to Christ...and members aren't so dumb that they don't realize that.
I do believe that we ought not to fight against our Christian brothers and sisters. If that has been your experience with members of the church, Servant, I feel bad that this is so. Folks like us who consider Joseph Smith to be a prophet also worship Jesus as Lord and Savior...just like you do. We ought to be friends, not enemies.
Regards, MG
Let me just say there are...go to MAD and try to post as a critic of the church. In years past when I posted there as a evangelical, I was called every name in the book, even by some here that have since left the church.
That said I assure you that like most LDS, most Christians are a nice bunch of folks also. I certainly agree with you that we can be friends, but equally believe we believe in and worship another Jesus and another gospel. We can certainly be friends, good friends, and not enemies...be we can certainly disagree and debate our differences, while having respect for each other as individuals and not putting a blanket of hate on others.
Don't take life so seriously in that " sooner or later we are just old men in funny clothes" "Tom 'T-Bone' Wolk"
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