The Best of the 2010s: A Mopologetic Decade in Review

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_moksha
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Re: The Best of the 2010s: A Mopologetic Decade in Review

Post by _moksha »

Doctor Scratch wrote:Second, why was a hack like Schryver tasked with the job?

He was eager and on the rise, back when apologetics seemed free of the rules of decorum and rigorous scrutiny.

When Smoot, Kwaku, Rappleye, and the other, younger, Mopologeticially-inclined folks look at that stash of $100 billion, what do they think?

They could follow the line of Dr. Peterson that financial transparency might be nice, but it is far from essential. Or they could use the first rule of apologetics and deny that the $124 billion endowment even exists. Some would argue that the information would be damaging in the hands of Church critics who would focus on unexplainable expense excesses and familial benefits for Authorities.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
_Doctor Scratch
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Re: The Best of the 2010s: A Mopologetic Decade in Review

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

moksha wrote:
Doctor Scratch wrote:Second, why was a hack like Schryver tasked with the job?

He was eager and on the rise, back when apologetics seemed free of the rules of decorum and rigorous scrutiny.


You are probably right, Moksha. The thing is: there were other Powers-that-Be that allowed this to happen, no?

When Smoot, Kwaku, Rappleye, and the other, younger, Mopologeticially-inclined folks look at that stash of $100 billion, what do they think?

They could follow the line of Dr. Peterson that financial transparency might be nice, but it is far from essential. Or they could use the first rule of apologetics and deny that the $124 billion endowment even exists. Some would argue that the information would be damaging in the hands of Church critics who would focus on unexplainable expense excesses and familial benefits for Authorities.


I would want to ask them how they feel about the idea that the billions are for the Second Coming. I want them to engage with that idea, and dwell upon it seriously.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_moksha
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Re: The Best of the 2010s: A Mopologetic Decade in Review

Post by _moksha »

Doctor Scratch wrote:You are probably right, Moksha. The thing is: there were other Powers-that-Be that allowed this to happen, no?

If I remember right, Schryver was booted out within a week of MsJack making her Schryver posting compellation into a thread here at MD. I think the thread was scrutinized by both the Maxwell Institute and the BYU administration. I doubt any of the Brethren were aware of this scandal or the remedy.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
_Doctor Scratch
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Re: The Best of the 2010s: A Mopologetic Decade in Review

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

moksha wrote:
Doctor Scratch wrote:You are probably right, Moksha. The thing is: there were other Powers-that-Be that allowed this to happen, no?

If I remember right, Schryver was booted out within a week of MsJack making her Schryver posting compellation into a thread here at MD. I think the thread was scrutinized by both the Maxwell Institute and the BYU administration. I doubt any of the Brethren were aware of this scandal or the remedy.


Dearest Moksha:

I appreciate your generous reading. You are right that it is seemingly impossible to know the full truth. But I think we may be conflating two separate incidents--i.e., (1) the incident in which Rev. Kishkumen's Sunstone notes were inadvertently "peer reviewed," and (2) the fallout resulting from MsJack's reporting on Schryver's online persona. My comment was meant to refer to Incident (1): i.e., someone on FAIR's board made it "okay" for Schryver to review the Reverend's "notes."

All that being said, there is evidence--in the form of testimonial from Schryver himself--that he *was* "juiced in" with the Brethren**:

Schryver, in his own words wrote:Therefore I prepared a detailed research proposal of my own, in which I described my findings to date and specifically requested to receive my own complete set of the digital scan images of the Joseph Smith Papyri and the Kirtland Egyptian Papers. I mailed this research proposal, dated November 18, 2009, to the Church Historian, Elder Marlin K. Jensen.

In late December 2009, I was notified by Glenn Rowe, Director of Special Projects for the Church History Library, that my research proposal and request to receive the images had been received favorably by Elder Jensen, but that it would require the authorization of his supervisors in the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (at the time, Elder Dallin H. Oaks and Elder Russell M. Nelson), as well as the First Presidency.

In January 2010, Elder Jensen notified me via email that the First Presidency had approved my request. The first week of February 2010 I traveled to the Church History Library in Salt Lake City, and after affixing my signature to a detailed research contract, I was permitted to download to my laptop hard drive the image files of the Joseph Smith Papyri and the Kirtland Egyptian Papers.6


So: Elders Jensen, Oaks, and Nelson allegedly "knew" about what Schryver was doing. Whether this was all just some run-of-the-mill, "pro forma" type of "approval" in the midst of their evidently very busy schedules, or whether they truly did take this seriously, is up for debate, I suppose. But Schryver himself insisted that he required this level of Church approval, and I see no reason to dispute his claims. Given the free reign he was given by other high-ranking Mopologists--such as DCP--I'm inclined to believe him.


**True historians of Mopologetics should archive and save Schryver's blog. If history is any guide to us, this thing will be blasted off the Internet before long.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_Dr. Shades
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Re: The Best of the 2010s: A Mopologetic Decade in Review

Post by _Dr. Shades »

As the B.H. Roberts Chair of Mopologetic Studies, I respectfully request that you refresh my memory: Did Schryver's FAIR Conference presentation of his cypher theory take place before or after MsJack's epic takedown?
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"

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_Kishkumen
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Re: The Best of the 2010s: A Mopologetic Decade in Review

Post by _Kishkumen »

Dr. Shades wrote:As the B.H. Roberts Chair of Mopologetic Studies, I respectfully request that you refresh my memory: Did Schryver's FAIR Conference presentation of his cypher theory take place before or after MsJack's epic takedown?


What we need is a timeline of major developments in Mopologetics.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Doctor Scratch
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Re: The Best of the 2010s: A Mopologetic Decade in Review

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

Dr. Shades wrote:As the B.H. Roberts Chair of Mopologetic Studies, I respectfully request that you refresh my memory: Did Schryver's FAIR Conference presentation of his cypher theory take place before or after MsJack's epic takedown?


Hi, Dr. Shades.

That information was actually in my OP. But the answer is that Schryver's presentation at the FAIR Conference came first (summer of 2010); MsJack began her legendary thread on May 1, 2011.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_Dr. Shades
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Re: The Best of the 2010s: A Mopologetic Decade in Review

Post by _Dr. Shades »

OOPS! Thanks for answering my question anyway. So FAIR didn't give him a free pass, after all.
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"

--Louis Midgley
_The Stig
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Re: The Best of the 2010s: A Mopologetic Decade in Review

Post by _The Stig »

Doctor Scratch wrote:Well, there has been more than one, no? Philo is perhaps the most prominent, though if I'm not mistaken, Darth J "went over to the dark side" during this period as well. And there is also Stem. There may be others I've overlooked, but you are right that they deserve acknowledgment. Their contributions have been appreciated.


You can add me to the list - the poster formerly known as "ttribe."

What do you say, Scratch? Shall we convert our truce to a more permanent cessation of hostilities? It has been 9 years, after all.
_Fence Sitter
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Re: The Best of the 2010s: A Mopologetic Decade in Review

Post by _Fence Sitter »

The Stig wrote:
Doctor Scratch wrote:Well, there has been more than one, no? Philo is perhaps the most prominent, though if I'm not mistaken, Darth J "went over to the dark side" during this period as well. And there is also Stem. There may be others I've overlooked, but you are right that they deserve acknowledgment. Their contributions have been appreciated.


You can add me to the list - the poster formerly known as "ttribe."

What do you say, Scratch? Shall we convert our truce to a more permanent cessation of hostilities? It has been 9 years, after all.


I for one hope that happens.
Welcome back.
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
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