Impeachment hearings

[_mikwut]

Hi Doc,

I'm just listening to the Defense team. It was an obvious point I had somehow missed the importance of. If President Trump is "shaking down" as they say, President Zelensky why is there no peep from who is being shaken down until immediately after the politico article in late August. It's hard to shake someone down when they don't even know it.

I have consistently posted on this thread how getting into Trump's head is going to be tougher than the democrats think and also necessary to show his intent was in line with what they are arguing.

mikwut

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Sigh...

I give up. See you in November.

- Doc

[_canpakes]

I'm just listening to the Defense team. It was an obvious point I had somehow missed the importance of. If President Trump is "shaking down" as they say, President Zelensky why is there no peep from who is being shaken down until immediately after the politico article in late August. It's hard to shake someone down when they don't even know it.

Didn’t Zelensky acknowledge an intent to comply with Trump’s demands of manufacturing an ‘investigation’ and possibly a public announcement? Why would he do that unless he perceived that aid could be conditional?

Are you confusing two interpretations wherein Ukrainians are believing that aid is on the way if they were meeting these demands, with the stateside reality that money is being withheld until the Ukrainians ‘come through’?

[_mikwut]

Hi E,

So are Volker, Taylor, Morrison and Kent also in on the Ukrainian we know but let's not say we know? Everyone of them were specific that they heard no rumblings whatsoever from Ukrainian officials until after the politico article in late August? So what channel was the shakedown happening from if it wasn't the traditional channels of Volker et al.?

I believe Volker addressed what Zerkal was referring to when he told the Ukrainian officials its just a hold up and happens sometimes and not to worry. Freeze and just temporary process being misinterpreted.

Why didn't the house managers present the information from the Times and Post?

mikwut

[_canpakes]

I believe Volker addressed what Zerkal was referring to when he told the Ukrainian officials its just a hold up and happens sometimes and not to worry. Freeze and just temporary process being misinterpreted.

Weren’t you just asking why the Ukrainians didn’t think that aid was being held up?

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

I think the question some of those on the Right ought to be asking is why wasn't the House given all documents related to the shakedown and why aren't all the witnesses being allowed to testify?

But we know they don't care, and would just come up with some assertion that the Democrats are something something fake news.

WHATEVS. It's not like our federal institutions and their built-in checks are important, anyway.

- Doc

[Guest]

I didn't hear all of House team's arguments but the parts I was able to listen to directly focused extensively on the withholding of a meeting with the President as an official act the President abused for his own personal gain.

[_mikwut]

Hi canpakes,

Yah that was bad phrasing. I gave up looking for the exact language in Volker's transcript. Just lazy. Sorry. But Volker's testimony addressed a question about the aid around the end of July and he explained to Ukrainian officials these short delay's happen and there is nothing to worry about. That was right around the time of Zerkal's mentioning from the Times and Post article.

That would also explain why the House Manager's didn't bring up Zerkal in their opening. They had carte blanche to present articles and press.

mikwut

[_Morley]

I'm just listening to the Defense team. It was an obvious point I had somehow missed the importance of. If President Trump is "shaking down" as they say, President Zelensky why is there no peep from who is being shaken down until immediately after the politico article in late August.

The NYTimes debunked this last October. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/23/us/politics/ukraine-aid-freeze-impeachment.html


CNN's article on the defense argument you're listening, Top takeaways from the start of the Trump team's impeachment defense:

Purpura did not include the testimony of Laura Cooper, the Pentagon official who mentioned emails her office received from Ukrainians about the aid on the same day as Trump's phone call with the Ukrainian President.

Nor did he mention documents that show Ukrainians concerned about the holdup in early August, reported on by The New York Times.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/25/politics/impeachment-watch-january-25/index.html

[_mikwut]

Hi Doc,

I think the question some of those on the Right ought to be asking is why wasn't the House given all documents related to the shakedown and why aren't all the witnesses being allowed to testify?

Maybe the left should ask itself why it doesn't accept the answer to those questions? Whether docs or testimony the President asserted Article 2, not just privilege. Separation of Powers is an integral part of our Republic. The House made a decision to not go to the Courts. That's where those issues are settled.

The House has the burden to prove its case. Not the President. Why in a burden shifting environment would you have your client do anything that his rights don't require him to do? Clearly his legal team is who has led the charge and advised the President on turning anything over or not and directed his assertions of Article 2.

But we know they don't care, and would just come up with some assertion that the Democrats are something something fake news.

Here is my biggest problem with this constant attitude. That the democrats are some untarnished silver or something. And the ridiculous environment where just saying that makes me just a MAGA wearing fool which I am not. The level of bias and deep rooted primal cognitive blinders on both sides just makes this white hat black hat nonsense just that, nonsense.

There is not a white side to respect and pledge allegiance to, that leads to religion. There is just process, that's it. And respecting the process is to me the last bastion of anything respectable in politics.

WHATEVS. It's not like our federal institutions and their built-in checks are important, anyway.

Which are you referring to? Because it seems the substantive institution respecting your post is the Constitutional structural tension between the branches of government and those built in checks.

mikwut
- Doc