Impeachment hearings

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_honorentheos
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Re: Impeachment hearings

Post by _honorentheos »

mikwut wrote:I just don't know how the intentions are isolated so neatly like that. Every president is a political figure and there political motivations are a constant factor in decision making, but so is the country, so is finances, so is a whole host of other motivations. There are plausible other motivations.

Meaningful time was spent by the House managers in making the case that the meeting being withheld could not be seen as in the interest of the United States. All of Trump's advisors with experience in the region were advocating it happen. The President of Ukraine constantly asked for it, and it was promised in the infamous phone call. The language used around it included meeting with Giuliani, who was the President's personal attorney and not an agent of the United States of America, a member of the state department, or otherwise authorized to act on the behalf of the nation. He was authorized to represent Donald J. Trump, personally.

The case presented by the House includes that, points to the withholding of the meeting as abuse of the office of the President, and used the President's private, personal channels rather than the established and connected official channels of state.

Motive? It's established he avoided official channels who were advocating for the meeting in favor of personal backchannels. Using an official act (a meeting in the oval office with another head of state) as leverage for personal gain is abuse of the office of President. One doesn't need to tease out motive. The act itself isn't excusable even if the motive were meant to have some form of national benefit.
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_EAllusion
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Re: Impeachment hearings

Post by _EAllusion »

Bolton's book manuscript alleges that Trump told him in August that he wanted to continue freezing aid to Ukraine until they helped with investigations into "rivals." One, that directly contradicts the main line of defense Trump's impeachment team is currently implausibly pushing. Two, Bolton could've shared this information with Congress any time he wanted and is a bad guy for not doing so.
_Icarus
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Re: Impeachment hearings

Post by _Icarus »

EAllusion wrote:Bolton's book manuscript alleges that Trump told him in August that he wanted to continue freezing aid to Ukraine until they helped with investigations into "rivals." One, that directly contradicts the main line of defense Trump's impeachment team is currently implausibly pushing. Two, Bolton could've shared this information with Congress any time he wanted and is a bad guy for not doing so.


Another smoking gun Republicans will fight tooth and nail to suppress during the impeachment trial.
"One of the hardest things for me to accept is the fact that Kevin Graham has blonde hair, blue eyes and an English last name. This ugly truth blows any arguments one might have for actual white supremacism out of the water. He's truly a disgrace." - Ajax
_subgenius
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Re: Impeachment hearings

Post by _subgenius »

EAllusion wrote:Bolton's book manuscript alleges....

isn't it more accurate and honest to state that someone alleges that the manuscript alleges?
(Not that either of those are accustomed or comfortable residing inside your usual posts)
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_moksha
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Re: Impeachment hearings

Post by _moksha »

Envelope to forehead: The impeachment trial will end in a purely partisan verdict that will encourage our Criminal-in-Chief to be totally out of control with his future behavior. Senate Republicans are expected to hoist Trump on their shoulders and sing, "For He's a Jolly Good Fellow", followed by a cake with sparklers. Fox News will host a week-long celebration. Trump will release a series of lies and grandiose boasts on Twitter for this occasion.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
_EAllusion
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Re: Impeachment hearings

Post by _EAllusion »

subgenius wrote:
EAllusion wrote:Bolton's book manuscript alleges....

isn't it more accurate and honest to state that someone alleges that the manuscript alleges?
(Not that either of those are accustomed or comfortable residing inside your usual posts)


No, it isn't, because Bolton's attorney issued a statement that has verified that part, which is why you've seen no denials. I guess that didn't make it to your information bubble when you wrote this post.
_honorentheos
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Re: Impeachment hearings

Post by _honorentheos »

Of course Trump tweeted a denial but that's SOP at this point.
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_Icarus
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Re: Impeachment hearings

Post by _Icarus »

Romney just said there will "likely" be enough GOP votes to call witnesses after Bolton's remarks.

Oh snap.
"One of the hardest things for me to accept is the fact that Kevin Graham has blonde hair, blue eyes and an English last name. This ugly truth blows any arguments one might have for actual white supremacism out of the water. He's truly a disgrace." - Ajax
_EAllusion
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Re: Impeachment hearings

Post by _EAllusion »

honorentheos wrote:Of course Trump tweeted a denial but that's SOP at this point.

Aye. To clarify, I meant no denials from Bolton about what his book manuscript reportedly said.

Even right wing media is a news inferno at the moment. Not that subs will mea culpa or anything, but he probably has woken up to why I didn’t describe it as an allegation of an allegation.
_EAllusion
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Re: Impeachment hearings

Post by _EAllusion »

Icarus wrote:Romney just said there will "likely" be enough GOP votes to call witnesses after Bolton's remarks.

Oh snap.

This is yet another instance where some new damning revelation about Trump has broke and the right wing media strategy isn’t settled yet. Every time this happens you get a brief window of chaos where everything gets thrown at the wall, some Republican leaders furrow their brows, and the Trumpian invincibility seems staggered. Up to this point they’ve always settled back into a consistent, if dishonest, set of talking points and Republican leaders have fallen back into circling the wagons. I would not assume this pattern is going to change until we see it change.

I still think the best way to maximize the chance of getting Trumpbout of office is to string days like this together one after the other. That’s why a broad impeachment focus of the full scale of malfeasance would have been better.
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