Impeachment hearings

[_canpakes]

canpakes,

“There was some money transferred by wire, but I can’t tell you why, or why that would indicate any actual corruption” doesn’t dispatch with my argument, or excuse Trump’s request or its obvious personal benefit to solely him. Please provide something real or substantial.

what? You seem to have jumped into my discussion with Icarus. I don't know what your asking?

Yep. Here you go:

... he gave an example of saying if the President would withhold aid unless a country built a Trump hotel with his name on it in the country's capital city, that would be corrupt, only financial gain to the President personally, and only for personal gain not a public civic good and obviously impeachable.

Trump asked a country to ‘look into’ and publicly announce an investigation of an opposition party candidate in particular and by name (as opposed to corruption in general) when no corruption evidence exists connected to that person. This only benefits Trump personally and financially. This is not a public civic good. By your own rationale, this is a corrupt and impeachable action.

So, we have:

1. No evidence.

2. No need to request this ‘favor’ in a conversation in which other benefits to Ukraine were being discussed.

3. No need to investigate a particular person who just happens to be an opposition candidate, and who was not the supposed subject of interest anyway,

4. No need to have another country publicly announce to a US audience any investigation regardless of the claim.

Trump’s action was determined by Trump to serve only Trump. Otherwise, how did it serve the public good of this nation?

[_mikwut]

canpakes,

Yah. That's the managers side of it. So?

mikwut

[_canpakes]

canpakes,

Yah. That's the managers side of it. So?

mikwut

Seems to be the only defensible side of the argument, too.

... he gave an example of saying if the President would withhold aid unless a country built a Trump hotel with his name on it in the country's capital city, that would be corrupt, only financial gain to the President personally, and only for personal gain not a public civic good and obviously impeachable.

Trump asked a country to ‘look into’ and publicly announce an investigation of an opposition party candidate in particular and by name (as opposed to corruption in general) when no corruption evidence exists connected to that person. This only benefits Trump personally and financially. This is not a public civic good. By your own rationale, this is a corrupt and impeachable action.

So, we have:

1. No evidence.

2. No need to request this ‘favor’ in a conversation in which other benefits to Ukraine were being discussed.

3. No need to investigate a particular person who just happens to be an opposition candidate, and who was not the supposed subject of interest anyway,

4. No need to have another country publicly announce to a US audience any investigation regardless of the claim.

Trump’s action was determined by Trump to serve only Trump. Otherwise, how did it serve the public good of this nation?

To restate: By your own rationale, this is a corrupt and impeachable action.

[_mikwut]

Canpakes,

I made a huge post that directly addresses your question. There is evidence of mixed motive and listed all of those in my long post, i.e. burden sharing, general corruption, new admin being vetted, biden etc. I can just refer you back to my lengthy post.

mikwut

[_canpakes]

Canpakes,

I made a huge post that directly addresses your question. There is evidence of mixed motive and listed all of those in my long post, i.e. burden sharing, general corruption, new admin being vetted, biden etc. I can just refer you back to my lengthy post.

mikwut

I suppose that you could, but your lengthy post doesn’t address these problems with singling out Biden:

1. No evidence.

2. No need to request this ‘favor’ in a conversation in which other benefits to Ukraine were being discussed.

3. No need to investigate a particular person who just happens to be an opposition candidate, and who was not the supposed subject of interest anyway,

4. No need to have another country publicly announce to a US audience any investigation regardless of the claim.

Trump’s action was determined by Trump to serve only Trump. Otherwise, how did it serve the public good of this nation?

Posting a list of politically tainted claims not backed up by facts doesn’t dismiss Trump’s self-serving action nor dismiss that it intended to serve only his own personal interests. Rather, your post highlights Trump’s problem.

[_Markk]

This is just the tip of the iceberg with Biden...there is more than enough here, even if half true, to demand a looking into and investigation...

...As previously noted in Secret Empires, on April 16, 2014, Devon Archer made a private visit to the White House for a meeting with Joe Biden. The day prior, Burisma had deposited more than $112,000 into a Rosemont bank account marked “C/O Devon Archer.” Six days later, on April 22, it was announced that Archer was joining the board of directors of Burisma. In short succession, on May 13, it was announced that Hunter Biden would join the Burisma board, too. Neither one had any background or experience in the energy sector, or in Ukraine for that matter.76

We now know based on financial records that each man appears to have been paid $83,333.33 per month by Burisma, or a total of $1 million a year.77

The timing of their appointment to the Burisma board and the payments is more than interesting. The day before Archer’s official appointment, on April 21, Vice President Biden landed in Kyiv for meetings with Ukrainian officials, bringing with him terms for a United States Agency for International Development (USAID) program to assist the Ukrainian natural gas industry.78

Even in a country abounding with corruption, Burisma stands out. Burisma founder Zlochevsky was in legal crosshairs when Biden and Archer joined the company board. By February 2016, Ukrainian authorities seized Zlochevsky’s property on suspicion that he was engaged in “illicit enrichment.”79 Zlochevsky found himself on Ukraine’s wanted list and fled the country.80

The Ukrainian prosecutor general’s office seized Burisma’s gas wells. Tax authorities began investigating him for suspicion of tax evasion.81 Hunter Biden used his contacts in Washington to help Zlochevsky in his corruption case. Burisma hired a former Obama Department of Justice lawyer named John Buretta and Blue Star Strategies, a consulting firm run by former Clinton administration officials, to help.82

Buretta would later recount how he interacted directly with Ukrainian prosecutors with the expressed purpose of getting the charges dropped. According to Buretta, the charges were dismissed in September 2016.83

Under pressure from Joe Biden, Ukrainian officials fired the Ukrainian prosecutor who was investigating Burisma. Joe Biden later bragged that he had the prosecutor fired by threatening to withhold one billion dollars in U.S. aid assistance to Ukraine.84

On January 16, 2017, Air Force Two descended toward Boryspil International Airport, just southeast of Kyiv. It was Joe Biden’s last foreign trip as vice president. Under Biden’s direction, the Obama administration had poured some $3 billion into the country.85 Four days before Biden arrived, Burisma announced that the Ukrainian government prosecutors had ended the criminal investigations into the company and its founder Zlochevsky.86...

76.  U.S.A. v. Galanis et al., Case No. 1:16-cr-00371, United States District Court for the Southern District of New York, Rosemont Seneca Bohai account statements from Morgan Stanley Private Wealth Management, Gx301; Schweizer, Secret Empires, pp. 60–61.

77.  U.S.A. v. Galanis et al., Case No. 1:16-cr-00371, United States District Court for the Southern District of New York, Rosemont Seneca Bohai account statements from Morgan Stanley Private Wealth Management, Gx301.

78.  “Fact Sheet: U.S. Crisis Support Package for Ukraine,” White House Office of the Press Secretary, April 21, 2014, https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/th ... e-ukraine; J. C. Finley, “Vice President Biden arrives in Kiev,” United Press International, April 21, 2014, http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/ ... 398098183/.

79.  ACEU Staff, “GPO Seizes Property of Ex-Minister Zlochevsky,” American Center for a European Ukraine, February 5, 2016, http://www.europeanukraine.org/home/201 ... zlochevsky.

80.  James Stafford, “Bribery, back room dealing, and bullying in Ukraine: The origins of Burisma,” ProKaivos, October 14, 2015, http://www.prokaivos.fi/2015/10/14/brib ... f-burisma/.

81.  “The Court Repeatedly Seized Wells the Company Zlochevsky,” NEWS.ru, accessed March 1, 2017, http://en.few-news.ru/the-court-repeate ... evsky.html.

82.  Kenneth P. Vogel and IuIiia Mendel, “Biden Faces Conflict of Interest Questions That Are Being Promoted by Trump and Allies,” New York Times, May 1, 2019, https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/01/us/p ... raine.html.

83.  Burisma Group, “John Buretta: For Us It Was Important to Close All Cases Against Burisma and Nikolay Zlochevskyi in a Legally Sound Manner,” Kyiv Post, February 1, 2017, https://www.kyivpost.com/business-wire/ ... anner.html.

84.  Michael Kranish and David L. Stern, “As Vice President, Biden Said Ukraine Should Increase Gas Production. Then His Son Got a Job with a Ukrainian Gas Company,” Washington Post, July 22, 2019, https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... -86dd-11e9–98c1-e945ae5db8fb_story.html.

85.  Pavel Polityuk and Alessandra Prentice, “U.S. Vice President Biden to Make Swansong Visit to Ukraine,” Reuters, January 12, 2017, http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukrai ... SKBN14W0QT.

86.  Burisma Group, “All Cases Closed Against Burisma Group and Its President Nikolay Zlochevskyi in Ukraine. The Company Cooperated with Law Enforcement Agencies and Paid in Full All Outstanding Fees,” Kyiv Post, January 12, 2017, https://www.kyivpost.com/business-wire/ ... -fees.html.


Schweizer, Peter. Profiles in Corruption (pp. 61-62) (end notes...pp. 270-271). Harper. Kindle Edition.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

I should be noted that Peter Schweizer is the president of the Government Accountability Institute (GAI), a Conservative group with close ties to a billionaire family funding Sen. Ted Cruz's presidential run. GAI has also received substantial support from groups backed by Charles and David Koch. More importantly, with regard to Markk's post above, the group has mostly been funded with millions of dollars in tax-exempt donations from the family foundation of the New York hedge-fund magnate Robert Mercer, who was a major donor to Trump’s 2016 campaign.

So, you can start to see how this is coming together. I won't bother to explain Bannon's role in the book quoted above, or others cobbled together by Schweizer, and pushed by Breitbart. I'm already well past my word limit when posting so this post is already numb to our resident idiots.

- Doc

[_Icarus]

This is just the tip of the iceberg with Biden...there is more than enough here, even if half true, to demand a looking into and investigation...

...As previously noted in Secret Empires, on April 16, 2014, Devon Archer made a private visit to the White House for a meeting with Joe Biden. The day prior, Burisma had deposited more than $112,000 into a Rosemont bank account marked “C/O Devon Archer.” Six days later, on April 22, it was announced that Archer was joining the board of directors of Burisma. In short succession, on May 13, it was announced that Hunter Biden would join the Burisma board, too. Neither one had any background or experience in the energy sector, or in Ukraine for that matter.76

We now know based on financial records that each man appears to have been paid $83,333.33 per month by Burisma, or a total of $1 million a year.77

The timing of their appointment to the Burisma board and the payments is more than interesting. The day before Archer’s official appointment, on April 21, Vice President Biden landed in Kyiv for meetings with Ukrainian officials, bringing with him terms for a United States Agency for International Development (USAID) program to assist the Ukrainian natural gas industry.78

Even in a country abounding with corruption, Burisma stands out. Burisma founder Zlochevsky was in legal crosshairs when Biden and Archer joined the company board. By February 2016, Ukrainian authorities seized Zlochevsky’s property on suspicion that he was engaged in “illicit enrichment.”79 Zlochevsky found himself on Ukraine’s wanted list and fled the country.80

The Ukrainian prosecutor general’s office seized Burisma’s gas wells. Tax authorities began investigating him for suspicion of tax evasion.81 Hunter Biden used his contacts in Washington to help Zlochevsky in his corruption case. Burisma hired a former Obama Department of Justice lawyer named John Buretta and Blue Star Strategies, a consulting firm run by former Clinton administration officials, to help.82

Buretta would later recount how he interacted directly with Ukrainian prosecutors with the expressed purpose of getting the charges dropped. According to Buretta, the charges were dismissed in September 2016.83

Under pressure from Joe Biden, Ukrainian officials fired the Ukrainian prosecutor who was investigating Burisma. Joe Biden later bragged that he had the prosecutor fired by threatening to withhold one billion dollars in U.S. aid assistance to Ukraine.84

On January 16, 2017, Air Force Two descended toward Boryspil International Airport, just southeast of Kyiv. It was Joe Biden’s last foreign trip as vice president. Under Biden’s direction, the Obama administration had poured some $3 billion into the country.85 Four days before Biden arrived, Burisma announced that the Ukrainian government prosecutors had ended the criminal investigations into the company and its founder Zlochevsky.86...

76.  U.S.A. v. Galanis et al., Case No. 1:16-cr-00371, United States District Court for the Southern District of New York, Rosemont Seneca Bohai account statements from Morgan Stanley Private Wealth Management, Gx301; Schweizer, Secret Empires, pp. 60–61.

77.  U.S.A. v. Galanis et al., Case No. 1:16-cr-00371, United States District Court for the Southern District of New York, Rosemont Seneca Bohai account statements from Morgan Stanley Private Wealth Management, Gx301.

78.  “Fact Sheet: U.S. Crisis Support Package for Ukraine,” White House Office of the Press Secretary, April 21, 2014, https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/th ... e-ukraine; J. C. Finley, “Vice President Biden arrives in Kiev,” United Press International, April 21, 2014, http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/ ... 398098183/.

79.  ACEU Staff, “GPO Seizes Property of Ex-Minister Zlochevsky,” American Center for a European Ukraine, February 5, 2016, http://www.europeanukraine.org/home/201 ... zlochevsky.

80.  James Stafford, “Bribery, back room dealing, and bullying in Ukraine: The origins of Burisma,” ProKaivos, October 14, 2015, http://www.prokaivos.fi/2015/10/14/brib ... f-burisma/.

81.  “The Court Repeatedly Seized Wells the Company Zlochevsky,” NEWS.ru, accessed March 1, 2017, http://en.few-news.ru/the-court-repeate ... evsky.html.

82.  Kenneth P. Vogel and IuIiia Mendel, “Biden Faces Conflict of Interest Questions That Are Being Promoted by Trump and Allies,” New York Times, May 1, 2019, https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/01/us/p ... raine.html.

83.  Burisma Group, “John Buretta: For Us It Was Important to Close All Cases Against Burisma and Nikolay Zlochevskyi in a Legally Sound Manner,” Kyiv Post, February 1, 2017, https://www.kyivpost.com/business-wire/ ... anner.html.

84.  Michael Kranish and David L. Stern, “As Vice President, Biden Said Ukraine Should Increase Gas Production. Then His Son Got a Job with a Ukrainian Gas Company,” Washington Post, July 22, 2019, https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... -86dd-11e9–98c1-e945ae5db8fb_story.html.

85.  Pavel Polityuk and Alessandra Prentice, “U.S. Vice President Biden to Make Swansong Visit to Ukraine,” Reuters, January 12, 2017, http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukrai ... SKBN14W0QT.

86.  Burisma Group, “All Cases Closed Against Burisma Group and Its President Nikolay Zlochevskyi in Ukraine. The Company Cooperated with Law Enforcement Agencies and Paid in Full All Outstanding Fees,” Kyiv Post, January 12, 2017, https://www.kyivpost.com/business-wire/ ... -fees.html.


Schweizer, Peter. Profiles in Corruption (pp. 61-62) (end notes...pp. 270-271). Harper. Kindle Edition.

All of your hyperventilating over Biden has been thoroughly debunked already. The fact that virtually all of this "information" comes from discredited John Solomon is telling.

[_honorentheos]

Markk the charges were dismissed against the President of Burisma prior to Biden delivering the demand the corrupt PG be removed. You know, because he wasn't doing his job like prosecuting the president of Burisma. Read your own damn sources at a minimum.

[_Markk]

Mark wrote...
I would like to see full blown trial, with the Biden's, Joe and Hunter, John Kerry's son, Joe's brother James and his sister, which would establish a motive and pattern of dirty business. And Bolton, Shiff, the whistle blower, Pilosi, Trump, Rudy...and anyone else that is involved in this mess. And then get a real jury that has no bias, either for or against. I want to see them all under oath. But practically that would tear the country apart worse than it is

NONE Of the above has ANYTHING to do with the Impeachment trial.

LOL, are you kidding, Focus... First, I read in another thread where you haven't watched the trial, and second, if you had watched the trial maybe the single most spoken talking point by the managers and later by the left wing senators when they were giving their closing comments, was that the trial was not fair in that they wanted more witnesses and documents...yet when pressed by the possibility of having counter witnesses by the defense, the left says basically... no way!

A truly fair trial would include everything I stated above and more...and besides witnesses that both sides want, including the accuser, it would demand a impartial jury. Lets get Shiff under oath, lets get Trump under oath...lets get Eric Ciaramella, Bolton, The Bidens (all of them), and like I wrote anyone else involved with the accusations for both sides.

So again, if you have actually paid attention to the trial, and watched both the "prosecution and defense" move their cases forward you would have known this.

The trial is a political one, not a standard trial we are use to, and unless both sides are given the same rights to a standard trial...it is a political one, and the left had their chance, and impeached the president basically writing their own rules, and now it is the rights turn in that they own the rule book.

Try to have a small share of objectivity, and at least understand what is going on at the trial.