Impeachment hearings

[_MissTish]

President "Very Concerned About Corruption" is about to commute Rod Blagojevich's sentence for political corruption:


https://www.rawstory.com/2020/02/trump- ... -abc-news/

[_Markk]

Yermak could state any belief that he wanted, but if Team Trump wanted to hold the aid up until the public announcement that Sondland stated would be required was made, then Team Trump is calling the shots there.

Your defense pretends that if Team Trump wanted an announcement but Yermak didn’t interpret that demand to be required, then Team Trump would simply forget about wanting a public announcement. You know that’s not how this would work.

No, what I said that is the accusation from Sonland was a he said, she said...Yermak denied it happened, and stated he and Z. found out about in a news cast. And your question was why did Trump ask them to publicly announce it, and my response was "in what context"...and so far your context is a he said she said, with contradictory evidences. Those are the facts, and why, lol a million other political reasons, the senate acquitted the President

There was no quid pro quo; there was no meeting, and the aid was received by the deadline. This , like the Russian hoax is nothing more than sour grapes. You should probably move on the the latest part of the hunt to get him removed. Barr gate, and Pardon gate.
Maybe the best thing to get him impeached would be Twitter Gate, and I might agree with that, and join in on that, even if it has no legal grounds.

canpakes wrote...Stating that someone does or doesn’t have to do a thing isn’t giving a reason as to why they wouldn’t have done it, especially if that thing would have been the usual, preferred, customary, legal or smart thing to do.

/quote]

I have qualified my stating "becasue he did not have to" many many times, and past presidents have done it before even to political opponents. Why didn't Obama ask the DoJ to take the lead instead of Biden in investigating corruption? Why didn't the DOJ tell the Ukraine to fire the prosecutor or they would not get the billion in loan guarantees?

canpakes wrote...It would be like asking you why you didn’t jump in a lake to pull someone out of the water who was drowning. You could answer, “because I don’t need to do that!!1!”, but such an answer doesn’t tell us why you didn’t do it (you can’t swim yourself; you hate the person in the water; you don’t want to get your shirt wet, whatever). My question has always centered on why Trump didn’t ask the DoJ to investigate, and you have repeatedly dodged back behind the same non-answer.

LOL ...Your answer was "because there was not enough evidence," so, based on your answer to the question there wasn't enough evidence that the guy was drowning so you just kept going and let him drown? Well, Trump is the head swimmer, and did not have to go ask the Chief of police or fire department to save the person.

LOL, Your example is silly and ignores the may reasons I gave you...among which are Z was elected to clean up the Ukraine, that's what he ran on and was elected for. That there was pending taxpayers dollars that were going to be given to the Ukraine by congress and it is his part of his responsibility to make sure they are not given to a corrupt goverment. That Rudy was investigating corruption already, and he said he would get the DoJ involved...and that they are involved. Barr has confirmed they are, as are a few senators looking into a possible Biden/Hunter corruption in China and the Ukraine. When Rudy started looking into it Joe was not even a candidate...so that argument falls also.

Your question is a dumb question, and what is ironic is your answer, to the dumb question..which is basically "because there is no evidence" (your words not mine)...when there is volumes of evidence that there was corruption by their goverment, and our tax dollars were misused

I have expounded on my answer several times and in many was, why don't you expound on yours?

canpakes wrote...
The point of the impeachment action. You want to pretend that it has to do with actions by others beyond Trump, as if a bad action committed by Trump can be rationalized by someone else’s unproven action.

No I don't, I am saying there was not an impeachable offense in the first place, being a narcissist, Twitter hound, game show host, who beat the lefts dream team, is not a impeachable offense. This was nothing more than a political exercise to muddy the waters, and it will continue up until the election.

It fires up the lefts base...but so far it is backfiring in that the votes that matter, the votes that elect the President just don't care about it.

[_Markk]

I'm not sure if you've been asked before, but if Trump was so concerned about corruption in the Ukraine, why did he hire Paul Manafort? Manafort was an agent for the very corruption Trump pretends to be against.
.

Did he know he was that dirty? I hope not...Manafort had dealings with Obama and Biden before Trump was even in the picture. He was a lobbyist and whore to anyone he could get money from, and a poor choice for Trump.

And again, if there should be an investigation, shouldn't our own Justice Department be involved? If this is the business of the United States, why go through the President's personal lawyer, who is not a Government employee, and does not have security clearance?

Trump trusts Rudy...you have to admit that leaks are a huge problem in Washington...and Rudy is a proven prosecutor so I see it as a perfect fit. It is not illegal and all presidents do it in one form or another. And his DoJ is now involved, as he said in the phone call and as per the whistle blower complaint, even if delayed. Obama trusted Biden, why shouldn't Trump trust Rudy...who has much more experience at that sort of thing than Biden. Again, it is not against the law and it makes perfect sense and there is nothing wrong with it. It is a straw-man, that fell long ago ( a few news cycles ago)...the new straw-man is Barr Gate, and it will pass and he will tweet something stupid and it will start again.

I googled as to whether or not Rudy has a security clearance and he may, or may not from what I read.

LOL character? Did you watch both trials...one liar after another,,,Pelosi, Shummer and Schiff...don't even go there. They were lying through there teeth.

So what you will about Trump, and I can defend a lot of what he says, but he is a workers and getting stuff done, positive stuff...and the lefts doe not know how to deal with that so they just focus on him, instead of what he is actually getting done. I was bummed that he was the better choice for me in 2016, I honestly was...but what he is doing for the most part is good, very good...in my opinion, and many others that were in the same boat I was are starting to see that, along with left leaning moderate democrats.

So LOL...save the character rah rah speech for someone else, that is a Joke given the behavior of the left, and right, over the past three years (history of politics) . Trump, right or wrong has stirred up the swamp, and again, right or wrong this may be the biggest kept campaign promise.

Off topic, read a little of FDR...he may have invented the political quid pro quo...interesting stuff. The more I read, the more I dig in to this, the more apparent it becomes that this is all about sour grapes, the lefts just can't admit they lost and instead of getting excited and getting behind a candidate...they just explode on Trump.

[_canpakes]

L...It would be like asking you why you didn’t jump in a lake to pull someone out of the water who was drowning. You could answer, “because I don’t need to do that!!1!”, but such an answer doesn’t tell us why you didn’t do it (you can’t swim yourself; you hate the person in the water; you don’t want to get your shirt wet, whatever). My question has always centered on why Trump didn’t ask the DoJ to investigate, and you have repeatedly dodged back behind the same non-answer.

LOL ...Your answer was "because there was not enough evidence," so, based on your answer to the question there wasn't enough evidence that the guy was drowning so you just kept going and let him drown? Well, Trump is the head swimmer, and did not have to go ask the Chief of police or fire department to save the person.

Wow, these distractions are getting even stranger.

We were discussing the subtle but important difference between if someone has to do something or not, and why they would do something or not. But to address your strange dive off of the cliff into ‘evidence of drowning’, I will just remind you that the same distraction could be applied as having no evidence that the person in the water would survive, either.

So you’re left unwilling to answer why the President didn’t ask the DoJ to investigate. Not that this is the same as saying that you don’t have to answer it ... but it’s interesting why you won’t answer it. ; )

The same answer fits both situations - Trump’s realization that he had no real case against the Bidens, and your realization of Trump’s realization.

[_Markk]

Can pakes wrote...We were discussing the subtle but important difference between if someone has to do something or not, and why they would do something or not

LOL...and I answered several times why Trump may have did what he did...like because Z. ran on the ticket of stopping corruption, and is the logical one to ask. And because Trump was in charge of releasing a Billion of so, so why not ask? Do you suggest he just say..okay here you go? Which is one reason why I asked, and you ducked, "who took the lead for Obama."

Why did Joe commit his quid pro quo? Why did he withhold the Billion dollars until the prosecutor was fired?

So you’re left unwilling to answer why the President didn’t ask the DoJ to investigate. Not that this is the same as saying that you don’t have to answer it ... but it’s interesting why you won’t answer it. ; )

LOL...are you that stubborn. Again you just don't like my answer and somehow think there was no corruption in the Ukraine, I guess.

[_canpakes]

LOL...are you that stubborn.

When it comes to asking you this question, yes. Pretty much because I like to watch you stubbornly avoid answering it for fear of letting common sense override your partisan defensiveness.

: D

Why didn’t Trump ask the DoJ to investigate?

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

The Pentagon's top policy official, who warned against withholding military aid to Ukraine last year, resigned yesterday at Trump's request.

Who is John Rood, besides having been a Lockheed Martin's VP?

Before entering the private sector, he served for 20 years in U.S. government positions at the Department of State, Department of Defense, National Security Council, Central Intelligence Agency, and as a Senate staffer. During his government career, he served as acting undersecretary of state for arms control and international security, assistant secretary of state for international security and nonproliferation, and completed two tours at the National Security Council, where he was a special assistant to President George W. Bush.

Why would the White House ask him to step down?

- Doc

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Just a reminder and a timeline for people who choose to deal with people like our resident smoothbrains:

https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comme ... p/fi45imw/

All Roads Lead to Putin

Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing - Donald J. Trump, Jul 7 2016 [1]

There’s two people I think Putin pays: Rohrabacher and Trump - Kevin McCarthy, Jun 15 2017 [2]

I don't know [if I would call the FBI if Russians asked for a meeting again during campaign season] - Jared Kushner, Jun 3 2019 [3]

I think you might want to listen, there isn't anything wrong with listening. If somebody called from a country, Norway, [and said] ‘we have information on your opponent' -- oh, I think I'd want to hear it. - Donald J. Trump, Jun 13 2019 [4]

It [interference in our 2016 election] wasn’t a single attempt. They're [Russia] doing it as we sit here, and they expect to do it during the next campaign - Robert S. Mueller III, Jul 24 2019 [5]

I would think that if they [Ukraine] were honest about it, they'd start a major investigation ... they should investigate the Bidens ... China likewise should start an investigation - Donald J. Trump, Oct 3 2019 [6]

Thank God. No one is accusing us of interfering in the U.S. elections anymore; now they’re accusing Ukraine. - Vladimir Putin, Nov 20 2019 [7]

Based on questions and statements I have heard, some of you on this committee appear to believe that Russia and its security services did not conduct a campaign against our country—and that perhaps, somehow, for some reason, Ukraine did. This is a fictional narrative that has been perpetrated and propagated by the Russian security services themselves. - Fiona Hill, Nov 21 2019 [8]

The unfortunate truth is that Russia was the foreign power that systematically attacked our democratic institutions in 2016. This is the public conclusion of our intelligence agencies, confirmed in bipartisan Congressional reports. It is beyond dispute, even if some of the underlying details must remain classified. - Fiona Hill, Nov 21 2019 [8]

Jan 1 2005 - Jan 31 2018. Oleg Deripaska helped Vladimir Putin launder money [9]

Mar 18 2014. Russia invaded Ukraine [10]

May 1 - Jul 1 2016. Longtime Trump Political adviser Roger Stone coordinated directly with Russian military intelligence officers regarding stolen Democratic Party emails [11]

Aug 2 2016. Trump Campaign Manager Paul Manafort secretively shared polling information with Russian political consultant Konstantin Kilimnik [12]

Sep 1 2016. Mitch McConnell refused to sign bipartisan statement on Russian Interference into US elections [13]

Sep 22 2016. Senator Dianne Feinstein and Congressmen Adam Schiff issued statement warning about Russian effort to influence the U.S. Election [14]

Nov 10 2016. Obama warned Trump about putting Michael Flynn in a high-level position [15]

Nov 18 2016. Elijah Cummings warned Mike Pence in a letter about Michael Flynn's foreign lobbying [16]

Jan 6 2017. The CIA, NSA, FBI, and ODNI concluded that Russia interfered in the 2016 election [17]

Jan 20 2017. Trump hired Michael Flynn as National Security Adviser [18]

Jan 20 2017. Michael Flynn messaged business associates that economic sanctions against Russia would be "ripped up" and a business project was "good to go" [19]

Jan 20 - Feb 7 2017. The Trump Administration worked intensly to lift sanctions on Russia the moment they took office [20]

Jan 26 2017. Acting Attorney General Sally Yates warned the White House Michael Flynn might be subject to blackmail by the Russians [21]

Feb 13 2017. Michael Flynn was fired by the Trump Administration [15]

It now seems the General Flynn was under investigation long before was common knowledge. It would have been impossible for me to know this but, if that was the case, and with me being one of two people who would become president, why was I not told so that I could make a change? - Donald J. Trump, May 17 2019 [22]

May 10 2017. Trump revealed highly classified information to Russian foreign minister (Lavrov) and ambassador in White House Oval Office meeting [23]

May 10 2017. Trump told Russian officials he was not concerned with Moscow's meddling in the US election [24]

Jun 1 2017. Trump and his administration mishandled classified intelligence so frequently that the US had to extract a "highest level source" from within the Kremlin [25]

Jun 21 2017. The Trump Administration opposed a broad bipartisan Russian sanctions bill because it would prevent the US President from lifting those sanctions [26]

Apr 19 2018. Rudy Giuliani joined Trump's personal legal team [27]

May 9 2018 - Jan 18 2019. Florida governor Ron DeSantis met with Lev Parnas six times and his committee received $50,000 from him [28]

Jun 16 2018. Trump called it "An Incredible Offer" to allow Russia to interrogate American intelligence officers in exchange for FBI questioning of 12 Russian agents for interfering in the 2016 U.S. presidential election [29]

Jul 4 2018. Seven Republican Congressmen travelled to Russia during the Fourth of July [30]

Jul 16 2018. Trump sided with Vladimir Putin over the US intelligence community regarding Russia's election interference in the US 2016 election [31]

Aug 2 2018. 8 US Intelligence Groups warned Russia disrupting the US 2018 midterm elections [32]

Nov 1 2018 - Ongoing. House Intelligence Ranking Member Republican Devin Nunes was directly involved in the push for Ukraine Biden investigations by Trump associate Lev Parnas [33]

Feb 25 2019. Trump asked Moscow's advice in dealing with North Korea [34]

Mar 1 2019. House Intelligence Ranking Member Republican Devin Nunes called off a staff trip to Ukraine when he realized House Intelligence Chair Adam Schiff would be told [35]

May 30 2019. Mitch McConnell vowed to block election security bills [36]

Jun 15 2019. Trump accused the NYT for treason for reporting that US escalated counter cyber-attacks on Russia [37]

Jul 25 2019. Trump asked for "a favor" from Ukranian President Zelensky. As Zelensky looked for a White House visit, Trump asked the Ukrainian President to look into "Crowdstrike" (server) & investigate Trump's political opponent & his son Hunter Biden. [38]

l would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows alot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike... - Donald J. Trump, Jul 25 2019 [38]

Sep 1 2019. Trump associate Lev Parnas, who pushed Ukranian conspiracy, received $1 million from a Russian bank account [39]

Oct 7 2019. Trump ordered sudden and unexpected withdrawal of American troops from Northern Syria [40]

Oct 10 2019. Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman, associates of Giuliani and Trump, were arrested [41]

Nov 13 2019. The conspiracy that Ukraine interfered in the US 2016 elections has been thoroughly debunked [42]

Nov 15 2019. Russia forces took over abandoned U.S. air base in northern Syria [43]

Dec 2 2019. John Kennedy backed Russian conspiracy theory that Ukraine meddled in the US 2016 election [44]

Dec 9 2019. Ted Cruz backed Russian consipiracy theory that Ukraine meddled in US 2016 election [45]

Dec 10 2019. Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov visited Oval Office for second time since Russian election interference [46]

Dec 13 2019. McConnell vows total coordination with White House on Impeachment trial in Senate [47]

Dec 14 2019. Lindsey Graham backed Russian conspiracy theory that Ukraine meddled in the US 2016 election [48]

Dec 14 2019. Lindsey Graham gives his word not to be a fair juror in the trial of Donald John Trump's impeachment [49]

Dec 16 2019. The Trump Administration threatened to veto 2020 spending bill due to language requiring future release of Ukraine aid [50]

Dec 21 2019. The Trump Administration opposed bipartisan Senate bill countering Russian aggression because the bill required the administration to report Russian election meddling [51]

Feb 10 2020. Trump's Budget proposals for 2021 contain a 25 percent cut to the European Deterrence Initiative which fights Russian aggression in Eastern Europe [52]

Feb 15 2020. Pompeo held undisclosed meeting with Russian diplomat [53]

For sources click on the link. The list above is one of many that can be made with regard to Russian agents acting on behalf of Putin to infiltrate and influence the GOP and other political organizations. Butina is one that comes to mind, for example.

- Doc

[_Markk]

LOL...are you that stubborn.

When it comes to asking you this question, yes. Pretty much because I like to watch you stubbornly avoid answering it for fear of letting common sense override your partisan defensiveness.

: D

Why didn’t Trump ask the DoJ to investigate?

Because he did not need to? (rhetorical), as I wrote in the beginning of this circle, "why is there air in a basketball?" It is equally a stupid but obvious question with a equally obvious answer. There is air in a basketball so it can bounce, and Trump did not ask the DoJ, becasue he did not have to, he is President and it is his job to make sure we, our country, are not giving money away to a corrupt Ukraine, and he acted accordingly, legally, and has been acquitted for any wrong doing, as accused by his politically enemies.

He had Rudy looking into the corruption before Biden announced his run for President. He then asked the President (Z.) of the Ukraine, in a transcribed phone call, who FYI, was recently elected by the the Ukrainian people to root out the corruption (see Sondland testimony) that had taken place under the Biden and Obama watch. Trump then asked Z. to look into it on "our " behalf, and told President Z. that both Rudy and the DoJ would look into it more, as the whistle blower testified. And as you are most likely unaware of (or refuse to acknowledge), today, the DoJ and others are looking into the corruption that occurred under Obama's and Biden's watch, which President Trump took the lead on, per his legal right.

In other words he did his job, and has no legal or constitutional requirement to ask the DOJ to first look into goverment corruption, but he did anyway after setting the table. There are other likely reasons I did not discuss much, like inheriting a "Washington" that has more leaks than Swiss cheese has holes. He obviously trusted Rudy enough to start the ball rolling, who is obviously more than qualified as a prosecutor...that is not even debatable given his record.

I understand you don't like my answer. I understand you can't refute my answer with factual evidence, logic or reason. I understand you can't defend and expound on your answer to your own question...but maybe you will go for it sooner than later.

And for the record you believe there was/is not evidence for investigation into corruption in the Ukraine, I believe their was/is. That alone shows how ridiculous and unwarranted you question was and is.

[_Markk]

Canpakes...


Why did Joe commit his quid pro quo? Why did he withhold the Billion dollars until the prosecutor was fired?